Beta Test New Webmail

[agsteele]

...the beta test appears to now be over, in that it looks as if JT has "pulled the trigger" on the upgrade. You now need to be logging in at the regular URL:

https://webmail.spamcop.net

I'm not sure if that is true - at least not universally. I still seem to have the 'old' version of webmail at the regular webmail URL. Or maybe the changes are so subtle that I cannot tell

Andrew

[DavidT]

I'm not sure if that is true - at least not universally. I still seem to have the 'old' version of webmail at the regular webmail URL. Or maybe the changes are so subtle that I cannot tell

Hmmm....I think I was fooled into thinking something significant had happened by the following:

1. The beta invitation that JT had recently posted on the webmail login page is gone.

2. The color scheme I selected in the beta was showing up when I logged in at the normal URL, so it tricked me into thinking that the switchover had happened.

However, there really wasn't anything new, feature-wise, so I've removed my mentions of the switchover, as they must have been wrong. It does leave me wondering where things now stand....

DT

[tingo]

4. Request made a year or two ago: add a To header to the Date/From/Subject/Size headers. That's because we have strict control on the addresses registered under our domain. "Non-existent" addresses such as info[at] / webmaster[at] / whatever[at]) are reserved exclusively for the use of spammers cool.gif. It would save the time needed to open some of the spams with Subject headers that look like valid mail.

This isn't likely to happen. It's simply not useful to most people and clutters up the screen. Also, we really discourage catch-all domains like you have set up because you end up receiving hundreds or thousands of spams that could have been trivially rejected just by asking your domain host to only accept valid email addresses. Catch-alls were fine 10 years ago, but aren't any more.

OK, maybe I should explain myself better, then. It was mostly intended for spams sent to both invalid and valid addresses, which in this way reveal that they are spams. The invalid addresses we know of actually get re-routed to another service (our local IP's) who then sends them to whichever slaughterhouse they chose to. But our remote web hosting services (ValueWeb = Affinity), as I understand it, do not offer any other alternative (and never have) than a catch-all.

[StevenUnderwood]

It does leave me wondering where things now stand....

DT

Perhaps JT got so much feedback recently, he was being overwhelmed by the response and has enough to look into for the time being? Perhaps he feels there are enough beta testers for the moment.

[DavidT]

But our remote web hosting services (ValueWeb = Affinity), as I understand it, do not offer any other alternative (and never have) than a catch-all.

Although many hosts still *offer* a catch-all function, most don't force you to use it. It's been years since I had any hosting at Valueweb (and it was a HORRIBLE experience, BTW), but I rather doubt that they don't let you turn the catchall feature off. Long ago, I had a catchall on one of my domains, but as JT said, "Catch-alls were fine 10 years ago, but aren't any more."

As for the value of having the "To" field as one of the columns in the webmail display, I'm skeptical, in that many of the spams I receive are actually BCCed to the my address, with a different address (sometimes one of mine, but often no longer valid) in the "To" field.

DT

[Tommy]

The layout on Safari is very weird for me.

I use a Mac (as well as various linux systems) and I just confirmed some of the unpleasantness in FireFox on a Mac... then I opened Safari and tried a couple of things.

If you choose the Options icon in Mail, then choose "Global Options" from the drop-down menu, then choose to display icons only, I think you'll see that everything fits much better. In Safari there's still too much empty space below the icons, but everything lines up. That's also the place you can display the so-called "spamcop menu."

If you like having the browser really small, you may be able to tweak the size of the fonts, maybe even using a custom stylesheet. Though I can't offer exact instructions on how to do it in Safari (or whether it will work).

[herouth]

Hi there. I've been testing it for a bit, and I find two annoying things:

1. It logs me out much oftener than it does in the stable version. I mean, after a few minutes of inactivity. Perhaps the cookies is too short, or the garbage collection rate is too high.

2. In the login screen, it keeps setting the default language to my local language. Now, this may be fine for most, but I prefer the English menus for various reasons. So I have to keep setting it back to English every time. I don't want to set the browser language to something else, because I need the local language for other applications. In short - can it remember which language I selected last time, and keep that language as the default?

Oh yes, and the 'report spam' button is absolutely essential. I get lots of spam in accounts that are not directed to my spamcop account.

[StevenUnderwood]

1. It logs me out much oftener than it does in the stable version. I mean, after a few minutes of inactivity. Perhaps the cookies is too short, or the garbage collection rate is too high.

2. In the login screen, it keeps setting the default language to my local language. Now, this may be fine for most, but I prefer the English menus for various reasons. So I have to keep setting it back to English every time. I don't want to set the browser language to something else, because I need the local language for other applications. In short - can it remember which language I selected last time, and keep that language as the default?

Both of these are likely to work when cookies start to work. I don't see the few minutes of activity problem, but if I leave the screen and come back, I have to log in again. As stated earlier in the thread, the cookies are confgured for the spamcop domain but the server is on cesmail.

[morganjohnson]

Using IE 7.0 (Beta 2) I get white on white immediately all across the top buttons. I see the icons but no words. My color scheme is Blue and White.

It also looks like I'm missing a row of something between the large buttons at the top and the refresh icon.

This is what I see:

http://www.rootsweb.com/~larapide/temp/sc.jpg

[DavidT]

Using IE 7.0 (Beta 2) I get white on white immediately all across the top buttons.

For some reason, your browser doesn't seem to be using the colors defined in the CSS. It would be good if anyone else who has IE 7.0 could check this out.

DT

[Wazoo]

Just noting that the handling of .CSS data is the most complained about issue of the range of browsers these days .. fix it for FF, it doesn't work in IE .. fix it for IE, Opera users raise cain ... fix it for Opera, users of the last version of FF complain, but "last night's release" users say it works fine .... on and on .....

Then of course, there's that "Beta" status .... issues with things "not working" are supposed to be provided as feedback to the developer of that tool .... and in this case, there's yet another third-party tool in use that may or may not wish to be notified ...

[StevenUnderwood]

I can also confirm that the "Blacklist" won't open up in the Beta...it produces an entirely blank HTML page without navigation.

From JT:

Thanks, should be fixed.

BTW, this was fixed within a couple hours of me using the Problem! button on the beta page bringing it to JT attention. He must have missed this problem in this thread.

[jefft]

Hmmm....I think I was fooled into thinking something significant had happened by the following:

1. The beta invitation that JT had recently posted on the webmail login page is gone.

2. The color scheme I selected in the beta was showing up when I logged in at the normal URL, so it tricked me into thinking that the switchover had happened.

However, there really wasn't anything new, feature-wise, so I've removed my mentions of the switchover, as they must have been wrong. It does leave me wondering where things now stand....

Not switched over yet, just the "news" automatically expired. The switchover will happen later this week. I'm still fixing stuff identified in the testing so far.

JT

I greatly prefer having the a horizontal scroll bar appear when the window is too narrow - it truly baffles me how Windows users can stand to have their windows cover the whole screen - that is the single thing that makes me most uncomfortable when I work on a PC.

We're unlikely to make that menu have a horizontal scroll bar instead of wrapping the way it does now. I think most people would consider that a step backwards.

JT

OK, maybe I should explain myself better, then. It was mostly intended for spams sent to both invalid and valid addresses, which in this way reveal that they are spams. The invalid addresses we know of actually get re-routed to another service (our local IP's) who then sends them to whichever slaughterhouse they chose to. But our remote web hosting services (ValueWeb = Affinity), as I understand it, do not offer any other alternative (and never have) than a catch-all.

Get a better mail host?

I know that sounds snippy, but I'm serious. Spammers routinely take a domain and send spams to the 1000 or more most common email names all at that domain. I see stuff like this in my logs all the time:

a.aaden[at]domain.com

a.brown[at]domain.com

a.campbell[at]domain.com

a.caldwell[at]domain.com

.

.

.

This goes on for thousands and thousands of addresses. Now, what does that do with a catchall? For one thing, your email host has to handle thousands of bogus emails they could trivially have removed. Next, they send those thousands to us, after they should have already know they were all bogus. Then we have to filter them. What if it's a message we're not catching at 100%? You get hundreds, maybe thousands of spams in your inbox. You're cursing SpamCop: "I pay good money and look at all this spam in my Inbox!"

All of this is trivially handled. Accept the dozen email addresses you really need and reject everything else by default. The email never even gets into your host saving them bandwidth, us bandwidth, and you aggravation.

I understand what you're asking for. IMO, you're asking for a sledgehammer to pound in a screw. Get your mail host to give you a screwdriver and we'll all be much happier. Heck, the only reason you need this is because you're getting spam in your inbox to addresses you already know aren't valid anyway.

JT

Hi there. I've been testing it for a bit, and I find two annoying things:

1. It logs me out much oftener than it does in the stable version. I mean, after a few minutes of inactivity. Perhaps the cookies is too short, or the garbage collection rate is too high.

2. In the login screen, it keeps setting the default language to my local language. Now, this may be fine for most, but I prefer the English menus for various reasons. So I have to keep setting it back to English every time. I don't want to set the browser language to something else, because I need the local language for other applications. In short - can it remember which language I selected last time, and keep that language as the default?

Cookies again. This will work better later.

Oh yes, and the 'report spam' button is absolutely essential. I get lots of spam in accounts that are not directed to my spamcop account.

Couldn't you just bookmark that page in your web browser? Do we really need that button? (This is the first feedback I've received about this question, btw).

[DavidT]

Couldn't you just bookmark that page in your web browser? Do we really need that button? (This is the first feedback I've received about this question, btw).

OK, here's more feedback regarding the "Report spam" button in the horizontal menu bar. As long as it simply points at "http://mailsc.spamcop.net/" there's no point in it being there, since I always have that URL loaded in the first tab of my browser window. Yes, people should be using bookmarks, or even if they're travelling, that's not a long URL for them to enter manually. The advantage of removing the button would be that it would make it less likely for the icons in the menu to start wrapping, as has been shown in other posts.

Other "votes"?

DT

[StevenUnderwood]

Other "votes"?

Remove it... it was more useful when it pointed to the VER reporting page, but even that is only an extra click away once you have the main spamcop web page up.

[csouter]

Hi,

I have been trying out the new beta a little and there are one or two things I would like to mention (I don't think they

have been mentioned before):

1. I normally collect my spam from the "Held Mail" folder, save it (along with any attachments), to

a folder on my local hard disk and then forward each message individually to KnujOn. (Some of you

may already have heard about KnujOn already). In the current Webmail version, my address book is

coming up blank when I click on the "Address Book" button in the "Compose" popup window. It has

been doing this for about the last two months or so, ever since the system had some kind of major crash

after a maintenance upgrade. (I understand that there has been some problem with the database).

However, in the main window, clicking on the "Address Book" button correctly shows all the addresses

in my address book. The problem has only been occurring when I try to access the Address Book when

in the Compose popup window.

Now, with the beta version currently under test, the address book shows up correctly when accessed from

the "Compose" window. So far, so good... however ...

2. In the beta version, when I try to FORWARD a spam message to KnujOn, the popup window comes up totally

blank! It doesn't seem to be the same problem mentioned elsewhere in this discussion (to do with colour

schemes), because the problem only occurs when the popup window is invoked from the "Forward" menu

item which appears when a message is actually opened. If I invoke the popup window by clicking on the

"Compose" button, the window appears as normal, with all its fields and buttons correctly labelled, etc.

And, the "Address Book" button works correctly. It just doesn't do this when I invoke it from the "Forward"

menu item.

BTW, my colour scheme is the old SpamCop WebMail default, ("Purple Horde," I think it's called). After

reading all the problems others were having with the colours, I chose that one explicitly, and it looks

pretty much the same as the current WebMail.

Thanks for reading. I hope that this is of some use to you.

Best regards

Christopher Souter

(Sydney, Australia)

[StevenUnderwood]

Hi,

I have been trying out the new beta a little and there are one or two things I would like to mention (I don't think they

have been mentioned before):

1. Now, with the beta version currently under test, the address book shows up correctly when accessed from

the "Compose" window. So far, so good... however ...

2. In the beta version, when I try to FORWARD a spam message to KnujOn, the popup window comes up totally blank!

1. This thread is about the Beta and as stated, it does work there.

2. This function works for me. Please state browser version, OS, etc. to see if we can find a connection. I use IE6SP2 on WinXP

[herouth]

One other issue I noted: one of the mails I received had a mailto link in it. These are replaced by a compose command to the web mail, naturally. However, when I clicked it, all I got was a blank page.

[csouter]

1. This thread is about the Beta and as stated, it does work there.

That's true I mentioned it because I felt I needed to give a little background to my next point. Sorry

if I have upset or offended anyone.

2. This function works for me. Please state browser version, OS, etc. to see if we can find a connection. I use IE6SP2 on WinXP

OK... I use 2 different OSs to access SpamCop: OS/2 (eComStation, or eCS), which is my primary OS, and

Windows XP SP2 with all the latest "updates".

The browser under OS/2 is Mozilla v1.7.12; under Windows XP it is also Mozilla, but I'm not sure what the exact revision is. (I'm running OS/2 as I write this). In Windows, I have also used MS IE6 SP2, (which I have just upgraded to the latest IE7 Beta version).

At any rate, the problem with the blank message forwarding window seems to be browser- and OS- independent, or, at least, that's what my experience has been.

I know that the same thing happens with Mozilla under Windows, and I also tried it today with IE7, with the

same result. I can't remember whether I have ever tried it with IE6. I mostly use Mozilla, anyway.

I just thought I'd mention it in case the information might prove to be of some little use to the developers.

I'm no expert, so, if it isn't of any use to anyone, please feel free to ignore it.

Best regards to all

Christopher Souter

(Sydney, Australia)

[StevenUnderwood]

That's true I mentioned it because I felt I needed to give a little background to my next point. Sorry

if I have upset or offended anyone.

No offense taken. Just noting I doubt anything is going to be done about that problem with the Beta due out shortly.

At any rate, the problem with the blank message forwarding window seems to be browser- and OS- independent,

or, at least, that's what my experience has been.

OK then, is it folder dependent? If you forward from the Inbox do you experience the problem? I did not have any messages in the Held mail (having just reported them) so my previous test was done from the Inbox. I just tried it from Held Mail and it worked for me. The only issue I had was a pop-up blocker, but I am at work now and had not tried sending anything from here yet.

Another possibility---Are all of the tests you have tried at the same location (i.e. are they all behind the same firewall)? Have you tried from another location?

Otherwise, it is possible it has something to do with your account (database setting?). Hopefully, we can get others here to test it and confirm or deny a wider problem exists.

[DavidT]

Hopefully, we can get others here to test it and confirm or deny a wider problem exists.

I just forwarded items out of my Held mail and other folders without any problems. If you forward from the message index view (by selecting one or more messages and then clicking Forward), the message(s) will be attached, so the body portion of the compose screen will be intentionally blank, but I don't think that's the issue that's been raised.

Sounds as if it might be something related to your specific account, in which case, you'll want to contact JT.

DT

[csouter]

No offense taken. Just noting I doubt anything is going to be done about that problem with the Beta due out shortly.

OK then, is it folder dependent? If you forward from the Inbox do you experience the problem? I did not have any messages in the Held mail (having just reported them) so my previous test was done from the Inbox. I just tried it from Held Mail and it worked for me. The only issue I had was a pop-up blocker, but I am at work now and had not tried sending anything from here yet.

Another possibility---Are all of the tests you have tried at the same location (i.e. are they all behind the same firewall)? Have you tried from another location?

Otherwise, it is possible it has something to do with your account (database setting?). Hopefully, we can get others here to test it and confirm or deny a wider problem exists.

Firstly, I have never tried forwarding from the Inbox (using the Beta, that is). It certainly works in the

old version.

What I usually do is this:

1. Open the first message in Held Mail.

2. Click "Show all headers".

3. Click "Save as..."

4. Save message to local disk.

5. Click attachment (it's usually text/html).

6. Save attachment.

7. Click "Forward"

8. Forwarding message window opens.

In the Beta version the new window is completely blank.

In the current version the new window is normal.

The following steps apply to the current version.

9. Type knujon[at]coldrain.net into To: field

(Remember that my Address Book isn't working)

10. Check "Save a copy in "Sent" folder".

11. Update attachments - there always seem to be two of these, one text/html, the other a jpg.

12. Click "Send..."

13. Click "Close window."

14. Click "Report as spam"

15. Go to "Sent" folder and save the other attachments.

16. Delete everything and wait for the next spam to arrive.

(I save all these messages so that I can zip them up and FTP them to KnujOn just in case of bounces

caused by KnujOn's ISP's email censorship).

(Most of the messages I receive in SpamCop WebMail are, in fact, spam. I have other email addresses

which never receive spam of any kind, because I have never published them anywhere. This is the reason

I decided to use a SpamCop account. It simplifies my reporting and is a lot cheaper than adding "fuel" to my

straight reporting account. These spam emails have been getting larger over the last few months, from

about 3-4KB to about 25-28KB, so my 15MB was getting exhausted much more quickly than before).

Secondly, I have never tried this from anywhere except home, so, yes, it is always behind the same firewall.

I may have the opportunity to try from a friend's house sometime in the next few days, but I can't be sure

exactly when that will be. If I do get the chance to try it, I'll let you know the result. Also, I have popups

allowed for all SpamCop sites, both for the beta and the current versions, so I'm pretty sure that the issue

is not with any popup blocking. Anyway, the window pops up OK, but it's just an empty frame.

Thirdly, I really can't imagine what it might have to do with my account or database setting. I don't even

know how to change any of that stuff from the defaults. I certainly can't find anything in the "Tools > Options"

menu that would affect it. Also, the other reason I mentioned about the Address Book was just in case the

two problems are somehow linked, although how that could possibly be the case, I simply cannot see!

Just to clarify about the Address Book: it was originally working, then, a couple of months ago, it stopped

working. Now, in the Beta version, it seems to work, but the forwarding does not.

Now, as I said before, I'm no developer (I think HELLO.EXE would probably crash if I tried coding and

compiling it). However, having said that, I really feel that the problem has something to do with the

browser not being able to render the window correctly. (Just my 2 cents' worth, and overpriced, at that)!

Anyway, thanks for listening. It's after midnight here in Sydney, so I'll get some sleep now and check

back in tomorrow. I'll let you know if I find anything else.

Best regards to all

Chris Souter

(Sydney, Australia)

(GMT+10:00)

[DavidT]

I'm trying to follow your steps exactly as you gave them, using the beta system (and Firefox 1.5.0.6 on Win XP SP2):

1. Open the first message in Held Mail.

I'm assuming you got there using the drop-down folder navigation and not by using the "Held Mail" button in the menu bar at the top?

2. Click "Show all headers".

3. Click "Save as..."

4. Save message to local disk.

5. Click attachment (it's usually text/html).

6. Save attachment.

Huh? Perhaps you're referring to the portions of the interface regarding the "parts" of the message? (often only a single "unnamed" text part containing the body of the spam) Or are you referring to the "Download all attachments (in .zip file)" link? I'm not clear...but none of this should actually have anything to do with the eventual problem.

7. Click "Forward"

8. Forwarding message window opens.

In the Beta version the new window is completely blank.

Not in my test. However...

11. Update attachments - there always seem to be two of these, one text/html, the other a jpg.

I think we might be using different webmail settings, because when I click on "Forward" when I'm viewing a message, the forwarded message is put into the body entry box of a message composition window, rather than being treated as an attachment. The only time my forwards are treated as attachments is when I'm *not* actually viewing a message, but am in a folder index and select one or more messages to forward.

Under "Message Viewing" - How do you want to display attachments? I have "Both Header Listing and Body of Message" but I can't find any other settings having to do with the way messages get forwarded.

However, your method seems quite cumbersome, considering there's a *much* easier method of grabbing the raw source of messages in your Held Mail folder - IMAP. I use the IMAP capabilities of my mail client (Pegasus -- from New Zealand, BTW -- but Thunderbird and others will also work) to open my SpamCop Held Mail, at which point, I can open a message, hit Ctrl-h to view the source and then do whatever I want with the source. I often paste the spam into the SpamCop web-based reporting form, although there are other options.

Sorry I can't duplicate your problem....I hope someone else can.

DT

[StevenUnderwood]

My results are the same as David's. There are additional DB settings that you do not have access to that might be corrupt, which is why you should contact JT. You can actually do that by hitting the Problem! button in the Beta. You should probably refer him here for the background.

If you are forwarding messages and wanting the full source, all you need to do (as David mentions) is select the messages to forward from the message list and click "Forward". The result is there are attachments for each message containing the full source of those messages. This is how I submit spam to spamcop for full reporting. It looks like this will work for the application you mention above. They say they don't need the full headers, but including them does not seem to hurt.

BTW, your step 2. Click "Show all headers" is only a visual thing to show the current message. None of your following steps seem to be affected affected by that step.

[sdpinpdx]

I'm getting blank screens on Firefox and Camino on OSX.

Just now, on Firefox, the new webmail logs me in, then shows my wife's held mail folder. It says there are no messages in it, which is wrong. When I select held mail from the dropdown, it shows the two messages in there.

On either browser, using either my account or my wife's (mine on Camino, hers on FF), opening Inbox gives me an empy window. Viewing the page source shows nothing at all.

This is Camino 1.0.1, Firefox 1.5.0.6, and OSX 10.4.7