nei1_j Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Dear Ma'ams and Sirs, For submitting spam, I've been attaching them to emails. When you notify me by email they've been parsed, I've been browsing to members.spamcop.net, logging in, and using the "Report" link, etc. I stumbled across your "mailhosts" link. An hour ago, I clicked mailhost. I filled out the Three Questions. I got four test emails, attached them, and sent them back. I don't believe any instructions were provided regarding what happens next. Will another notice be emailed with instructions? Do I simply proceed with my spams as usual? They are beginning to pile up. --------------- Recommend reading about "Usability Engineering." For starters, the developers may -not- be relied upon to determine if the process makes sense to the users. Best luck, -Neil- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Is there some idea in there anywhere that suggests you've looked at the Pinned items, looked through any of the other Topics, spent any time at all at looking before posting your query? What I see you asking, Ellen has answered in the Pinned items. If not, please point out where you find the already provided data is missing the crucial answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nei1_j Posted June 20, 2004 Author Share Posted June 20, 2004 Dear Wazoo, Sorry: 1) that you got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning 2) that you couldn't bother to answer the question while you were responding, anyway However, thank you for confirming that the procedure is not included within the process, but is only available to those fortunate enough to visit the forum. OK; forget my problem. More important, I believe we have established that there needs to be more guides during the execution of the procedure to help the users along the way. For instance, if the procedure is outlined in this forum, then a link to the pinned could be supplied during the process, perhaps in those verification emails that SpamCop sends to the users. A good start: Instead of being annoyed at a thousand "useless" questions, try to whittle them down by providing more help along the way. The goal isn't to create the procedure -- it's to get people whom are unfamiliar with it to use it properly. And yes, I did read a few pinned. If a link to the proper post were provided -- or if there were a topic named “Procedure for Upgrading [Migrating] SpamCop Account,” I don't think I would have missed it. Inside of pinned "Invitation," it says, "... Once you begin the migration process, do not report any more spam until it is complete." I don't believe any instructions were provided regarding what happens next. It's specified as critical, but how do I know the process is complete? Will another notice be emailed with instructions after I've been migrated? Pinned "Mailhost Update / New Confirmation Procedure" from April looks closer to an answer. Unfortunately, I totally don't understand the first paragraph. Not sure if it's related to the 2nd paragraph. I am aware that I have a few email accounts from a couple of ISPs. That is all the terminology that I know. (Does that make me stupid?) I don't know what a "mailhost" is, or a "mailhost probe," so I don't understand the first instruction. If you must use technical jargon when defining a procedure, then include definitions. Better yet, stick with plain english -- to keep in simple. If it helps, "pictures" -- like screen shots -- paint a thousand words. It says, "Do *NOT* use quick reporting or the "Report as spam" button in webmail for at least 2 or 3 days until you are sure that all your spams are parsing properly." [Confusing typographical errors removed and helpful punctuation added.] What am I looking for inside the parsing? I've always let SpamCop take care of that. What am I supposed to make sure happens, or make sure doesn't? It helps if you specify what I'm supposed to be sure of. When my account is finished migrating, it sounds as if I will ultimately continue processing my spam the same way, although I don't know if that point was ever specified. If my membership has “migrated” since filling out the mailhost process, what feedback do I get to confirm it? Such feedback -- perhaps an email? -- would be an excellent opportunity to summarize the remainder of the procedure. I guess -- maybe -- I'm supposed to start by submitting some spam, so I can receive some parses? That might have been “Step #16,” although I didn’t see it specified. For that matter, I can count up to “100,” so feel free to enumerate. Best luck, -Neil- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Dear Wazoo, Sorry: 1) that you got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning 2) that you couldn't bother to answer the question while you were responding, anyway It's father's day here. BBQ'ing meat outside, baking a cake, potatos on boil for mashed potatos, veggies in the microwave, NASCAR on the TV / radio ... Talking to my son on the phone .... and here I am spending time in here .... However, thank you for confirming that the procedure is not included within the process, but is only available to those fortunate enough to visit the forum. I don't use the e-mail side of the house, and have refrained from the mail-host thing as it apparently screws up any attempt at my trying to parse another user's spam in order to try to troubleshoot what went wrong for him/her. OK; forget my problem. More important, I believe we have established that there needs to be more guides during the execution of the procedure to help the users along the way. Could be, but the "troubles" brought into the light in these Forums and over in the newsgroups seems to suggest that most folks make it through without a glitch. For instance, if the procedure is outlined in this forum, then a link to the pinned could be supplied during the process, perhaps in those verification emails that SpamCop sends to the users. Sorry, but this is something that Julian himself came up with, installed, and let into the wild. A number of days later, a link was made available, sometime after that, web entry of some of the confirmation stuff was made available .. on and on ... but, bottom line is that no one here is privy to all the ends and outs, and as stated in the Pinned items, Julian pushed the "handholding" for special problems down to the Deputies (thus far it seems to be pretty much Ellen) A good start: Instead of being annoyed at a thousand "useless" questions, try to whittle them down by providing more help along the way. The goal isn't to create the procedure -- it's to get people whom are unfamiliar with it to use it properly. Nobody said useless, nobody started namecalling ... You made no note of attempting to look anywhere for answers, so the impression of yet another "drive by poster" was just there ... And yes, I did read a few pinned. If a link to the proper post were provided -- or if there were a topic named “Procedure for Upgrading [Migrating] SpamCop Account,” I don't think I would have missed it. OK, you can pin the blame on the originator, programmer, and maintainer of the SpamCop tool set, Julian Haight himself. As stated above, only he has the total overiew and insight of what the mail-hosts thing is, how it works, and what steps and procedures have been provided. Perhaps your complaints will be seen and kicked up to him by one of the Deputies, but I can't guarantee that. Inside of pinned "Invitation," it says, "... Once you begin the migration process, do not report any more spam until it is complete." I don't believe any instructions were provided regarding what happens next. It's specified as critical, but how do I know the process is complete? Will another notice be emailed with instructions after I've been migrated? I can tell you that these initial comments were offered up ad guidance from some staff that were being overwhelmed by the "problems" found after people started reporting themselves for various reasons after starting the mail-host registration. The decision of "when it's complete" was also based on the results of a parse submitted via the web-based entry box (possibly an e-mail'd submittal if full technical details were part of the response) .. and when it was seen that the parsing engine was working correctly, then moving towards more automated means could be started. Pinned "Mailhost Update / New Confirmation Procedure" from April looks closer to an answer. Unfortunately, I totally don't understand the first paragraph. Not sure if it's related to the 2nd paragraph. I am aware that I have a few email accounts from a couple of ISPs. That is all the terminology that I know. (Does that make me stupid?) I don't know what a "mailhost" is, or a "mailhost probe," so I don't understand the first instruction. If you must use technical jargon when defining a procedure, then include definitions. Better yet, stick with plain english -- to keep in simple. If it helps, "pictures" -- like screen shots -- paint a thousand words. Now you're asking me to offer an opinion of something Ellen said, which I'm not going to do. This Forum is not set up for graphics. I don't have access to the SpamCop servers. At best, I'll kick her a note advising her of your problem with her instructions, and once again run the risk of ticking her off yet again over "getting involved with something that is supposed to be handled by the words in her instructional Pinned items" .... It says, "Do *NOT* use quick reporting or the "Report as spam" button in webmail for at least 2 or 3 days until you are sure that all your spams are parsing properly." [Confusing typographical errors removed and helpful punctuation added.] What am I looking for inside the parsing? I've always let SpamCop take care of that. What am I supposed to make sure happens, or make sure doesn't? It helps if you specify what I'm supposed to be sure of. The SpamCop tool set is just that, and only that .. a tool. many tools are dangerous when operated without knowledge of what they do. Have you ever visited the FAQ page at SpamCop Parsing and Reporting Service ???? That's just the beginning ... When my account is finished migrating, it sounds as if I will ultimately continue processing my spam the same way, although I don't know if that point was ever specified. Please see the above if still necessary. If my membership has “migrated” since filling out the mailhost process, what feedback do I get to confirm it? Such feedback -- perhaps an email? -- would be an excellent opportunity to summarize the remainder of the procedure. there is no "migration" , "upgrade", or any other magnificent word involved . simply the registration and marrying up of your e-mail hosts and your SpamCop account. I guess -- maybe -- I'm supposed to start by submitting some spam, so I can receive some parses? That might have been “Step #16,” although I didn’t see it specified. For that matter, I can count up to “100,” so feel free to enumerate. If you are still having issues, then I can only point you once again to Ellen's Pinned postings, which include the same statement .... e-mail to Deputies for their/her special handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjr16 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Well, I suppose nei1_j has figured it out by now but I had exactly the same initial confusion. Which was not cleared up by the preceding posts. So, I am adding some more explanation than what Wazoo attempted.... The short version: When you receive e-mail replies from each test e-mail (or if someone uses the form on the web page referred to in the e-mail) for each of your e-mail addresses that you use to receive and/or report spam with, and when you receive automated replies from (or see the results on the web page) then you are finished with the migration or whatever you want to call it. Then you should be able to continue on reporting spam similar to before. Note to SpamCop staff: Please try to clarify this question on the mailhosts web page and/or e-mails to prevent further confusion (not everyone will want to look in these forums for answers). Thanks for providing this much needed service, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Well, thanks for the "short version" .. though I really don't see where you added anything beyond Ellen's post at Mailhost Update, New Confirmation Procedure .... you either waited for "confirmation e-mails" or did the "web-paste" and got got an immediate "it was accepted" page ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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