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Held Mail is not expiring


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Update: go to the end of this topic for the latest news

Quoth JT:

"There is a 14 day limit on Held Mail. It's deleted after that time period whether or not you login."

Well...not currently. Using one of my SC email accounts, I've run two long-term tests (22 and 17 days, respectively), and in both tests, nothing ever expired from the Held Mail. At the end of the first test (in July), I was told that there had been some server changes that might have interfered with this function, so I started a second test on the first day of August, and nothing has expired from Held Mail since then.

I hope that the server problems last Friday didn't mess up my current test, or I'll have to start all over again. This issue is not a problem for people who regularly report all their Held Mail, but for those who would sometimes prefer to just ignore it and let it disappear after two weeks, that's not currently happening, and could lead to incredibly large buildups of messages. Yes, one could go in and dump the contents of the Held Mail manually, but that's not the point....the point is that this is a feature of our email accounts that is not functioning, and it needs to be fixed.

DT

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Thank you for posting this here, but you don't mention if you also emailed this information to JT.

I will do that right away. I'll send it to the "support" address, but Wazoo seems to have better luck with getting in touch with JT lately.

dt

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Just because he does not respond does not mean he does not get the message.  It's been more like the Julian model with him lately.

Yes, I'm hopeful that a response will eventually arrive. If I'm correct, this is a pretty major problem for the SC email customers who use their accounts for filtering, but don't check or process their Held Mail. I'm wanting to recommend SC email accounts to other people, but until this issue is resolved, I won't.

dt

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My "Held Mail" experiment has now been running for about three weeks and still no sign of anything "expiring" out of the folder. I sent a report about this to the Support address four days ago, but I haven't received any reply. :(

dt

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My "Held Mail" experiment has now been running for about three weeks and still no sign of anything "expiring" out of the folder.

Update, Mon, 8/23:

In the last day or so, several hundred of the oldest items disappeared out of the Held Mail of the account I'm experimenting with. The oldest item (dated 1 Aug) didn't go away, but maybe that's because I had tagged it as being "Seen" (or "read"). Besides that one, the oldest items are now from 7 Aug, which is a little older than 14 days, but not by much.

So, either someone (an Admin) went in and manually deleted some of the old stuff, or someone has fixed the broken server function that was supposed to be getting rid of Held Mail after 14 days. I haven't been notified in either case, and it's odd that the oldest item didn't go away. It would be nice if whoever is working on this would simply drop me a quick message telling me what's going on here, but.....

dt

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If it means anything, I've not heard from JT since before my last harddrive crash .. at least two weeks ago ..??? Unfortunately, my maul store was on that drive, so I don't have a clue as to just how many queries I have in to him yet unanswered. I know there was somewhat simple stuff like linking up the directories that held the old and new emoticons hat still hasn't happened, I recall begging him to see if he could force an archive of my PM folders and as this version isn't erroring out in a mail issue, suggesting that an output file just may have been created, snagging that output file and kicking it out to me .. that hasn't happened yet and I think I'm losing the race in trying to stay under the 100% space used issue there. I know there was a host of other user specific questions, but perhaps thay've been taken care of as I haven't seen anything of late to refresh my memory as what they were ... this 14 day thing seems to be a bit more than just a switch setting ..????

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... this 14 day thing seems to be a bit more than just a switch setting ..????

Yes, the 14-day thing is a problem that has existed for quite some time, but it seems that JT wasn't convinced that it was actually broken. My tests indicate that it has indeed been broken, but today's mysterious disappearance of several hundred Held items seems to indicate some sort of word towards a solution.

dt

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I'm a new SC user (week or two) and wonder if the 14 day limit on held mail is configurable at all by users? It's catching 99.9% spam and I have neither time nor desire to review them. If anyone knows of a way to have them automatically deleted, please let me know.

Thanks very much.

Barry K.

Quoth JT:

"There is a 14 day limit on Held Mail. It's deleted after that time period whether or not you login."

Well...not currently. Using one of my SC email accounts, I've run two long-term tests (22 and 17 days, respectively), and in both tests, nothing ever expired from the Held Mail. At the end of the first test (in July), I was told that there had been some server changes that might have interfered with this function, so I started a second test on the first day of August, and nothing has expired from Held Mail since then.

I hope that the server problems last Friday didn't mess up my current test, or I'll have to start all over again. This issue is not a problem for people who regularly report all their Held Mail, but for those who would sometimes prefer to just ignore it and let it disappear after two weeks, that's not currently happening, and could lead to incredibly large buildups of messages. Yes, one could go in and dump the contents of the Held Mail manually, but that's not the point....the point is that this is a feature of our email accounts that is not functioning, and it needs to be fixed.

DT

15318[/snapback]

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I'm a new SC user (week or two) and wonder if the 14 day limit on held mail is configurable at all by users? It's catching 99.9% spam and I have neither time nor desire to review them. If anyone knows of a way to have them automatically deleted, please let me know.

No, it's not configurable. If you want it to go away before 14 days (once that's properly working again), you either use the webmail interface or an IMAP compatible email client to delete as much as you want.

However, the SpamCop system relies on the efforts of many people reporting spam, including that which winds up in Held Mail. Reporting those items helps keep those sources of spam on the SpamCop Blocking List.

DT

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No, it's not configurable. If you want it to go away before 14 days (once that's properly working again), you either use the webmail interface or an IMAP compatible email client to delete as much as you want.

However, the SpamCop system relies on the efforts of many people reporting spam, including that which winds up in Held Mail. Reporting those items helps keep those sources of spam on the SpamCop Blocking List.

DT

15720[/snapback]

That makes sense, but only leads me into further tangles. I'll try to be brief and hopefully you'll be able to help.

My ISP recommended SC after I complained about the volume of spam coming in (we have a business). I looked it over, signed up, and set up a couple of filters so mail I wanted would go into the Inbox. Also for simplicity I set up our mail so that it would be forwarded from our ISP to the SC server, and then I retrieve it from there a few times a day using Eudora.

Using this setup, I assumed that the mail staying in the Held Mail Box was already being screened as spam, since every time I checked that was all that I found in there. So I wasn't reporting it all as spam. Wrong assumption.

In addition some spam was getting into my SC inbox, and I was reporting that as spam.

Yesterday I got a call from our ISP saying that they were in danger of getting blacklisted because of all the spam I was reporting, since, due to the way I had set up the mail forwarding, they were showing up as the source. So I figured the easiest solution was to simply delete any unwanted mail from SC and not continue reporting it as spam.

To further complicate all this, yesterday evening I spotted a thing about updating the mailhosts info. I did that, in hopes that it would perhaps resolve the issue of not being able to report spam without getting my ISP in trouble.

I think that covers it and sorry for going on so long. My main goal out of all this is to not have to look at 1,000 to 2,000 spams every day. SC seems to be doing a superb job of catching 95+% of it and dumping it all into the held mail box. I set my trash so it auto-empties on login once a day, but I guess I can't do the same for the held mail.

So I guess my questions are: how can I safely report all these spams as spams without having to review them? Did the mailhost update process identify my ISP so they won't get blamed for spams if I do report them? And finally, does the process of having my email forwarded defeat the whole reporting process anyway?

Thanks very much in advance,

bk

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Yesterday I got a call from our ISP saying that they were in danger of getting blacklisted because of all the spam I was reporting, since, due to the way I had set up the mail forwarding, they were showing up as the source.
Then there's probably something wrong with the way that forwarding is happening, because SpamCop's parsing system can handle mail that's been properly forwarded. I've got many different acounts that forward to my spamcop address, and I report hundreds of spams a day, both from my Held Mail and also stuff that slips through, and my own providers are not being reported. Of course I check all the reports to see where they all went to be sure.
So I figured the easiest solution was to simply delete any unwanted mail from SC and not continue reporting it as spam.
That's certainly safer than reporting your own provider.

To further complicate all this, yesterday evening I spotted a thing about updating the mailhosts info. I did that, in hopes that it would perhaps resolve the issue of not being able to report spam without getting my ISP in trouble.
That's what the Mailhosts feature is supposed to do, but you must start off by thoroughly testing it, perhaps in "mole" mode, in which spam reports don't get sent to ISPs. You can also try pasting the raw source of a spam into the website reporting system, making sure that Full Technical Details are enabled, and then carefully analyze the results to see that your own providers wouldn't be reported.

I haven't yet messed with Mailhosts, because things are working fine for me without doing so.

So I guess my questions are:  how can I safely report all these spams as spams without having to review them?
You still should review, so don't report without reviewing. You might wind up reporting bounce-related messages and virus (worm) activity, which aren't spam.

Did the mailhost update process identify my ISP so they won't get blamed for spams if I do report them?
Hopefully, but you'll want to carefully follow all the directions and perhaps participate in the Mailhosts forum to be sure.

And finally, does the process of having my email forwarded defeat the whole reporting process anyway?
It shouldn't, assuming the host system they're being forwarded from is properly configured, but it sounds like there might be a technical issue with your forwarding that you ought to discuss with folks in the Mailhosts forum.

DT

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2 Notes to add to David's comments:

set up a couple of filters so mail I wanted would go into the Inbox.

The webmail filters only work while you are logged into webmail and only at times you define by the configuration of your account. If you were talking about the whitelist, where you entered the addresses (or domains) of messages you wish to receive, those will work to send the messages to your inbox.

then I retrieve it from there a few times a day using Eudora.

How you are reporting the messages that slip through could be a problem with Eudora. You can not forward you messages and have spamcop receive anything useful much of the time. There is a 2 part web submission form for use with Outlook (not Express) and Eudora.

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Then there's probably something wrong with the way that forwarding is happening, because SpamCop's parsing system can handle mail that's been properly forwarded.
I beleive that I will have to challange DavidT on this one.

As long as the mail is getting into you spamcop account you have forwarding set up just fine.

Your problem seems to be that you have failed to set up your mailhosts completely which must be configured to avoid reporting yourself. Like DavidT, I have all my mail forwarded from multiple domains and have no problem with reporting. It is rare that I do find a problem with the results from the parser(maybe one a month). I do take the time to scan each report before reporting. The key is setting up Mail Host is the right sequence. Read the FAQ for instructions.

Next problem, (actually dealt with above) when reporting spam it is important to check the results of the parser to be sure that there are not any problems. It would appear that your are simply blindly reporting.

Using this setup, I assumed that the mail staying in the Held Mail Box was already being screened as spam, since every time I checked that was all that I found in there. So I wasn't reporting it all as spam. Wrong assumption
Not actually wrong. Mail goes into the held mail folder because it has been identified as being spam based on the blacklist filters you have selected. Because IP's fall off the SpamCop list base on the time the last report was filed, people do report held mail as spam to keep the IP listed longer. The danger is that not all mail that is "identified" as spam and sent to the held mail folder is actually spam.

In your case I would recommend NOT reporting mail from the held mail folder unless you have plenty of time to properly identify it as spam before reporting it.

I would recommend reporting spam reaching your inbox but not until you are sure the mailhost file is properly set up.

Last point. The personal filters do not work unless you access you inbox via the web mail interface and apply the filter at that time (can be set up to automaticly apply upon logging in.

After you have log in and applied the filters then you can POP the mail from your local server/clientl. If you POP first, the filters are bypassed.

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I beleive that I will have to challange DavidT on this one.

As long as the mail is getting into you spamcop account you have forwarding set up just fine.

It is probably a combination of your two messages. Without a header this is all just speculation, though.

Forwarding may be setup just fine (the mail is being forwarded) but the ISP's headers are not reflecting either where it got the message from or how it forwarded the message out. As David mentioned, I have also got many forwards in use and spamcop has always been able to work the headers back to where the first email account received the message, even before mailhosts.

Either way, once mailhosts is configured (which may be a process in itself if the headers are the problem) that should not be a woory. As usual, any change in configuration should be followed by thourough testing.

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It is probably a combination of your two messages. Without a header this is all just speculation, though.

Forwarding may be setup just fine (the mail is being forwarded) but the ISP's headers are not reflecting either where it got the message from or how it forwarded the message out. As David mentioned, I have also got many forwards in use and spamcop has always been able to work the headers back to where the first email account received the message, even before mailhosts.

Either way, once mailhosts is configured (which may be a process in itself if the headers are the problem) that should not be a woory. As usual, any change in configuration should be followed by thourough testing.

I would agree with this statement.

I failed to metion about the headers since the mailhost configuration process would have had to deal with it and if there were a problem it would have come up during the registration process. Besides, what can a single user actually do about a ISP that is using bad headers?

Steven, thanks for your clarification.

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I'm "bumping" this topic back to the top, because it is still unresolved. It has been 10 days since I orginated this and sent email to SC "support" and there has been no official response.

I'm pretty sure this is affecting *all* SpamCop email accounts. I'm tempted to call on other SC email customers to go on a bit of a "strike" and to allow their Held Mail to accumulate until this is resolved. Or maybe I'll just have to CRANK UP THE VOLUME a bit and bring more attention to this issue.

Frustrated,

DT

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. I'm tempted to call on other SC email customers to go on a bit of a "strike" and to allow their Held Mail to accumulate until this is resolved
That sounds like a good idea, count me in.
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  • 2 weeks later...

Update: Sept. 6th - apparently the mail server wasn't actually back to "normal" (mail was actually moved to a different server) until the 23rd of August, so we're finally coming up on the end of the first 14-day period after which old messages should start expiring out of our Held Mail folders once again.

Here's what JT wrote me tonight:

"While the server had major problems on the 13th, we were able to limp along with it and started moving mail on the 23rd. Tomorrow night we start expiring mail again."

So, I'll report back on Wednesday, to confirm that the long-broken (for several months at least, and on and off a lot before that) expiration of Held Mail is once again functioning.

DT

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So, I'll report back on Wednesday, to confirm that the long-broken (for several months at least, and on and off a lot before that) expiration of Held Mail is once again functioning.

Been holding my breath .. shouldn't do that I hear <g> .... Fixed??

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Been holding my breath .. shouldn't do that I hear <g> .... Fixed??

Well...not quite yet. Or more accurately, JT says that Held Mail is expiring for some people, and eventually should do so for everyone by the end of the week (I guess my account is in the "end of the week" category). I was trying to be patient and wait for the miraculous disappearance, which is supposed to happen Real Soon Now...

DT

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I can also confirm that my held mail over 14 days old has now been deleted as well. So I will now go back to deleting as I go.

Oldest mail now in held mail is "Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:07:31 -0700 (PDT) "

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