Munging "User Notification" Reports, Starting Soon Options

[SpamCopAdmin]

Starting soon, possibly tomorrow, SpamCop will no longer send un-munged User Notification reports to abuse addresses that refuse to accept munged reports unless the user gives specific permission.

Below my signature is what the user will see when he tries to send the report. If he 're-confirms' he is presented with a pop-up dialog telling him that he can send the un-munged report if he wants to.

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

There is a problem: At least one User Defined Recipient refuses munged reports.
Please re-confirm all recipients.
Report Spam to:
Using abuse#address.com[at]devnull.spamcop.net for statistical tracking.

[Jeff G.]

Moderator edit: the previous post has been edited by its author in response to the following post.

Don't you really mean "SpamCop will no longer send munged User Notification reports to abuse addresses that refuse to accept munged reports unless the user gives specific permission."? Thanks!

This post has been edited by dbiel: Oct 28 2005, 10:08 PM

[StevenUnderwood]

Don't you really mean "SpamCop will no longer send munged User Notification reports to abuse addresses that refuse to accept munged reports unless the user gives specific permission."?  Thanks!

Jeff: Currently, if a site refuses munged reports, checking the (default) unchecked box pops up a warning and if confirmed, sends an unmunged report to that recipient. The warning is telling you that the report will be sent unmunged per the recipient request, over-riding your current setting to munge.

I think the line should be: Starting soon, possibly tomorrow, SpamCop will no longer send un-munged User Notification reports to abuse addresses that refuse to accept munged reports unless the user gives specific permission.

[Jeff G.]

I think the line should be: Starting soon, possibly tomorrow, SpamCop will no longer send un-munged User Notification reports to abuse addresses that refuse to accept munged reports unless the user gives specific permission.

Hmm, your opinion has merit, too. Let's see what TPTB do or say...

[SpamCopAdmin]

I think the line should be: Starting soon, possibly tomorrow, SpamCop will no longer send un-munged User Notification reports to abuse addresses that refuse to accept munged reports unless the user gives specific permission.

That's correct.

Sorry for my confusing post.

I edited it to make it right.

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

[agsteele]

So, as I read it, from the date when his change occurs even users who have chosen to send all their reports un-munged (sic) will have to confirm that they are willing to send these reports on a case by case basis.

Andrew

[dbiel]

Andrew, my understanding is that is not the case. The change only affects users who are configuered to send munged reports.

[Wazoo]

Near/far as I can see, the overall clarity of this change is still missing. Here's an example from a different point of view ... a historical Topic/Discussion ... I sent e-mail upstream, get response, yet .. re-reading that old Topic, coming back to this "change" notice ... I'm still stuck on that the "warn/verify" ecent seems to be the major change .... I'm thinking that there was yet another exchange I had based on a user complaint of things not being munged or unmunged based on user preferences being over-ridden / ignore by something else, but ... based on the confusion just indicated, I'm having problems finding the e-mail or Forum discussion on what it is that I think I'm remembering .. Anyway, please take a look at http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4137 ..... then come back here and see how things can be "cleared" up ...

[Jeff G.]

The way I read it is as follows:

If you don't munge, don't worry, nothing will change.

if you do munge, and try to send a Report to an ISP that doesn't accept munged Reports, the SpamCop Parsing and Reporting System used to send an unmunged Report without asking (revealing those details you probably wanted to munge); now it will ask first. Whether this applies to User Defined Recipient Reports, User Notification Reports, or both remains to be seen.

This post has been edited by Jeff G.: Oct 29 2005, 08:29 AM

[Wazoo]

if you do munge, and try to send a Report to an ISP that doesn't accept munged Reports, the SpamCop Parsing and Reporting System used to send an unmunged Report without asking (revealing those details you probably wanted to munge); now it will ask first.

That's where my confusion stems from actually, referencing the pop-up that did occur asking about the unmunged report (complained about heavily from those that didn't allow java scri_pt to run in their browser) ... and based on what I think is the premise of this announcement (that dialog I can't seem to come up with now) about some circumstances where the Preference setting of munged reports wasn't being honored, but also wasn't made apparent to the user that un-munged reports/data was going out. If that is the case, then this isn't necessarily a "change" but more of a "fix" (to an issue raised by a Forum poster as I recollect) ...?????

[Jeff G.]

Yes, a "fix" to better honor the wishes of both Reporters and ISPs, and ask Reporters when those wishes conflict.

This post has been edited by Jeff G.: Oct 29 2005, 09:32 AM

[SpamCopAdmin]

Geez... seems like I'm the only one who remembers the growling about "User Notification" reports going out un-munged whether the user liked it or not if he sent it to an ISP address that refused to accept munged reports.

Normally, when a user who doesn't allow un-munged reports to be semt tries to send a report to an abuse address that doesn't accept them, SpamCop will pop-up a dialog box informing him of the problem and give him a chance to send the report un-munged or not send it.

Someone discovered that didn't apply to "User Notification" reports. If the ISP abuse address didn't accept munged reports, SpamCop would send the "User Notification" report un-munged without telling the user about it.

I submitted a bug fix request and, after a long wait, got that changed.

This only applies to extremely rare situations where the user's account is set to only send munged reports (default), AND he's trying to send a "User Notification" report to an abuse address that has registered with us and refuses to accept munged reports.

Now SpamCop will not send that un-munged report unless the user allows it.

You can test the routine by using my ISP test account: isptest at rmci dot net

It is set to refuse munged reports, and the reports come to me so it doesn't hurt to send the reports.

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

[StevenUnderwood]

Thankyou for that clarification. I think the "User Notification" part was what was being missed. I know I assumed it was the regular reports that already had the notification.

[Wazoo]

Geez... seems like I'm the only one who remembers the growling about "User Notification" reports going out un-munged whether the user liked it or not if he sent it to an ISP address that refused to accept munged reports.

No. that's the issue I can't seem to find right now ... it was brought up in here, I did the e-mail upstream thing, had some dialog, and now haven't been able to come up with the 'magic" words for a successful search query to get back to where it all started. I remember the issue, just can't find the background facts as of yet.

[Farelf]

No. that's the issue I can't seem to find right now ... it was brought up in here, I did the e-mail upstream thing, had some dialog, and now haven't been able to come up with the 'magic" words for a successful search query to get back to where it all started.  I remember the issue, just can't find the background facts as of yet.

http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...indpost&p=31432?

This post has been edited by Farelf: Oct 29 2005, 12:41 PM

[Wazoo]

http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...indpost&p=31432?

Thanks .. a bit embarrassing there, a few facts blurred, eh? Brought up in the Forum by myself because I brought it here from the newsgroups ... and checking the Announcements section sure isn't where I was looking for the "discussion" ... Thanks one big boat-load ... edited the link to the newsgroup archives as the 'anchor link' didn't drop me at the "thread" ....

[Wazoo]

As the issue started in the newsgroups, I took it back to the newsgroups, only imagining the fallout at the Official announcement being made in the Forum but nothing posted into the newsgroups ...

From: "Wazoo"
Newsgroups: spamcop,spamcop.help,spamcop.mail
Subject: Munging "User Notification" Reports
Followup-To: spamcop
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:29:28 -0500
Message-ID: <dk0iio$kk6$1[at]news.spamcop.net>

Not sure why data not presented here, so I'm doing that.
Way back when, there was a thread titled: tekcom & dtag
I had a link:
http://news.spamcop.net/pipermail/spamcop-...ead.html#103719
bit noted that I didn't drop into the specific post, and
dates aren't part of the display ... so title on that page
is:  [SpamCop-List] tekcom & dtag, later changed to;
[SpamCop-List] 3rd party SC reports [was Re: tekcom & dtag]

Anyway, discussion occurred there, I also made an
Announcement of that issue in the Forum, found at
Munged/Unmunged 3rd party reports
http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4673

Don made a posting "over there" yesterday, seen at;
Munging "User Notification" Reports,
    Starting Soon
http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5250

Some confusion followed, some editing done, some more
conversation, and another Forum user helped out by finding
the "lost" Topic/Discussion ... (a bit embarrassing to see that
it turned out to be my Announcement posting) ... I'm thinking
that this was posted to the Forum, based on my dialog, which
included Forum data ... after tracing things back, re-reading my
own post, I'm bringing back to the newsgroups.

Once again, noting that some data does not exist in the newsgroup
archives due to use of the X-NoArchive bit settings/inclusion ...
the original newsgroup traffic is just about ready to age off ...
(I'm showing Message-ID: <dd2uu6$a04$1[at]news.spamcop.net>
as my "first" link into the 'situation', dated 8/6/05)

While I'm at it, Don's current/edited posted data;
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Starting soon, possibly tomorrow, SpamCop will no longer send un-munged User
Notification reports to abuse addresses that refuse to accept munged reports
unless the user gives specific permission.

Below my signature is what the user will see when he tries to send the
report. If he 're-confirms' he is presented with a pop-up dialog telling him
that he can send the un-munged report if he wants to.

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

There is a problem: At least one User Defined Recipient refuses munged reports.
Please re-confirm all recipients.
Report Spam to:
Using abuse#address.com[at]devnull.spamcop.net for statistical tracking.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-

[agsteele]

The change only affects users who are configuered to send munged reports.

So the opposite to my reading... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Ah well.

Andrew

[eric]

Thanks!

This post has been edited by eric: Nov 3 2005, 11:35 PM