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Please do NOT post any requests for help in this forum. Please post all questions in the appropriate Help Forum. This forum is reserved for the development of the SpamCop FAQ (here) and is open to all who wish to contribute to building a better FAQ. Suggestions for improvements are welcome as well as pointing out areas that are unclear or you are unable to understand as we can use those comments to improve the current FAQ (here).

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> SpamCop FAQ (Forum version) development
DavidT
post Jul 29 2004, 09:55 AM
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Note: The following archived history was originally part of the Original SpamCop FAQ & Added Forum Items, Never up to date, changes often topic and has been split off to this new topic to make the active FAQ more user friendly.

QUOTE(Wazoo @ Jul 28 2004, 10:33 AM)
Starting with this posting here in the Lounge ... will put Pinned entries into the Help and E-Mail Forums ... nothing in this FAQ that addresses the Mail-Host stuff .... and as mentioned in another Topoic, an IronPort staffer has been given the task of updating this FAQ, so maybe even this effort has been wasted .. but hey, it's a start.
*


A big THANK YOU to Wazoo for giving this more exposure throughout the forums. I'll try to do my part in contributing some new new info on webmail issues, and maybe Richard will have a chance to make a few updates before the yet-to-be-named Ironport staffer takes over the FAQ.

BTW, I see that the number of pinned items in the Help and Email are now 10 and 8, respectively. I think that's too many, and will lead to users, both old and new, missing the imporant ones. I think that some could be consolidated, or you could have a pinned item that contains a collection of links to important archived posts. I think that in those two places, there really shouldn't be more than two or three pinned items on a regular basis.

DT
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Wazoo
post Jul 29 2004, 12:24 PM
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If you look a bit closer, you'd see that most of the Pinned items are added to this version of the FAQ ..... That Mis Betsy and yourself are the only two folks that have mentioned this recent addition .. (well, not true, I just remembered that at least one of the great Steve's has already linked to it <g>) ... I wasn't sure if it was time to removed some of the items from their Pinned status. The fact that my fine ISP decided to "perform maintenance after midnight because no one is on-line at that hour (?)" ... and said maintence included doing fiber repairs .... which turned out to take more than the proposed 6 hours ... well, just back now ... have to play catch up ...
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turetzsr
post Jul 29 2004, 01:02 PM
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QUOTE(Wazoo @ Jul 29 2004, 01:24 PM)
<snip>
well, just back now ... have to play catch up ...
*
...While catching up, I'd suggest suppressing the urge to reply to anything posted by pwhaughey or follow-ups thereto. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) <big g>


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dbiel
post Jul 30 2004, 12:23 AM
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Wazoo, thanks for the great effort.
When did you ever find the time to accomplish so much is such a short period.
It's going to take me a long time just to review what you have done.
What an improvement.
Thank you


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Wazoo
post Jul 30 2004, 11:53 PM
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QUOTE(dbiel @ Jul 30 2004, 12:23 AM)
Wazoo, thanks for the great effort.

Ah, now that's embarrassing. But thanks.

QUOTE
When did you ever find the time to accomplish so much is such a short period.

That's the embarrassing part. What you had seen wasn't really that much effort .. well, OK, it wasn't a walk in the park either <g> ... but basically all it amounted to was grabbing the HTML from the SpamCop page, converting that to whatever the code this stuff uses (I keep seeing something about BB Code, but ..??) ... once I got the patterns figured out, it was just a handful of Replace commands and a few individual touches here and there ... I'll agree and take the hit .. this should have been done long ago, just caught up in the waiting for something better to show up ... blame DavidT for making me do it now <g> .... it's the next level that's the hard part.

QUOTE
It's going to take me a long time just to review what you have done.

Please do ... I already blew some time this evening trying to track down a dead link .. turns out the link went to a JeffG post that I had later revamped, updated, modified, and replaced .. thus the original message ID number was toast ....

But now it's down to trying to find all those posts that had the good stuff in them that could use a direct pointer to them, then deciding whether they need rewritten to stand alone or just point to them where they set, still in the middle of a conversation ... now I'm spending real time <g>

QUOTE
What an improvement.
Thank you

Wish I could be so sure. Am still seeing queries posed that are in fact already answered ... and that's after changing the Topic titles in each of the Forums to define FAQ .. but that's always been the bane of the support side of things <g>

But again, thanks for noticing <g>
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dbiel
post Jul 31 2004, 12:42 AM
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QUOTE
Wish I could be so sure. Am still seeing queries posed that are in fact already answered ... and that's after changing the Topic titles in each of the Forums to define FAQ .. but that's always been the bane of the support side of things <g>

I hope that you do not really think that even a perfect FAQ will stop all duplicate queries. Some people are just to lazy to look first, they rather take a short cut and just ask.
What is important about the FAQ is that is provides a easily accessable source of answers for the serious looker and makes the entire system easier to learn and use for everyone.
Thanks again.


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Wazoo
post Jul 31 2004, 01:19 AM
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QUOTE(dbiel @ Jul 31 2004, 12:42 AM)
I hope that you do not really think that even a perfect FAQ will stop all duplicate queries. 

Hardly .... been on the support side for too many years to even think that. That was just one of those "letting frustration out" moments ... I also frequent several Microsoft peer-to-peer newsgroups, and they drive me nuts, even more so now that Microsoft put up an absolutely stupid web-page interface to "ask your question" that dumps it into the newsgroup, so most posters never figure out how to see a response ... like those complaining that all they see are questions, no one ever answers anything, but not knowing what the plus sign at the left of the subject line does (expand the thread) .... and seeing the same 300 questions asked 1,000 times a day, every day, day after day .....

And having written manuals, even I know that RTFM isn't always the solution <g>

QUOTE
Some people are just to lazy to look first, they rather take a short cut and just ask.

As compared to those that don't have the time to go looking for stuff .. then get all ticked off when the answers aren't magically poofed in 30 seconds or less ? <g>

QUOTE
What is important about the FAQ is that is provides a easily accessable source of answers for the serious looker and makes the entire system easier to learn and use for everyone.

Flip side is that magic list of 'answers' that can be referenced, vice typing it all in, over and over <g> The down side is that a couple of folks over in the newsgroups liked being able to point at things in these Forums, but that conversion from HTML to this software has that a bit screwed for the pointers I'm adding in that point to other posts, dang it ....

QUOTE
Thanks again.

and you're quite welcome again <g>

Question for you / anyone .. is there a FAQ existing on a mailsc.spamcop.net page that has additional content?
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DavidT
post Jul 31 2004, 08:38 AM
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QUOTE(Wazoo @ Jul 30 2004, 11:19 PM)
Question for you / anyone .. is there a FAQ existing on a mailsc.spamcop.net page that has additional content?
*


No. The "Help" and "FAQ" found at http://www.spamcop.net/help.shtml and at http://mailsc.spamcop.net/help.shtml are identical.

dt
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turetzsr
post Aug 2 2004, 01:31 PM
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QUOTE(dbiel @ Jul 31 2004, 01:42 AM)
I hope that you do not really think that even a perfect FAQ will stop all duplicate queries.  Some people are just to lazy to look first, they rather take a short cut and just ask.
What is important about the FAQ is that is provides a easily accessable source of answers for the serious looker and makes the entire system easier to learn and use for everyone.<snip>
*
...It also makes it easier or those of us trying to help OPs since we don't have to re-type the answers -- we can just include a link to the FAQ item! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) <g> As already noted by Wazoo:
QUOTE(Wazoo @ Jul 31 2004, 02:19 AM)
<snip>
Flip side is that magic list of 'answers' that can be referenced, vice typing it all in, over and over <g>
<snip>
*
...BTW, Wazoo -- is "vice" a synonym in your part of world for "versus" or is that a typo?

This post has been edited by turetzsr: Aug 2 2004, 01:34 PM


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Wazoo
post Aug 2 2004, 03:45 PM
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QUOTE(turetzsr @ Aug 2 2004, 01:31 PM)
is "vice" a synonym in your part of world for "versus" or is that a typo?

Let's call it "my" world <g> ... background showing .. single syllable and one less "s" sound, better for radio chatter ... 4 letters as compared to 6, to shorten up message traffic ... 20+ years of that sort of thing is hard to work out of my system <g> (if you had any idea of how much editing I end up doing on some of these posts when I'm trying to keep up with my thinking <g>)
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Miss Betsy
post Aug 2 2004, 04:05 PM
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When you are typing, 'vs' is faster. 'vice' is probably the spoken version.

Miss Betsy


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Wazoo
post Aug 2 2004, 04:08 PM
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And after answering so many questions on what "vs" meant, I quit using it. <g>
This is from back in the Teletype days, where all kinds of things could go wrong between the draft at one end and the hard-copy at the other ...
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dbiel
post Aug 3 2004, 08:40 AM
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What do you think about adding the following to the bottom of each forum list of items.
"How to get support"

I am refer to todays post
QUOTE
I am having this problem too. Refreshing does not help. I am sure if I cleared out all my reports that would help but I would like all that backed up spam to be reported. Still, if I keep waiting it is all going to go bad. How do I contact the deputies?

Thanks,
Jonathan Duncan


After which I reviewed the list of items in the FAQ and did not find a logical place to start to look for it.

Since I am a bit confused as to syntax
Why is the reference alway made as "deputies <at> spamcop.net"
instead of as direct email link which would automaticly open up a response window making much easier to reply?
I personally find the syntax "deputies <at> spamcop.net" confusing, but at least I understand how to translate it. But I would believe there are a lot of newbies that might have trouble with it. Then again, maybe it is just me.

Edit based on the following replies.
Thanks for the education, I have edited the post.
It would be helpful to add this information to the FAQ or the How to Use sections
To repeat, I found it a bit confusing, so I would think that someone new to the internet might be completely confused.

This post has been edited by dbiel: Aug 5 2004, 03:12 PM


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DavidT
post Aug 3 2004, 08:49 AM
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QUOTE(dbiel @ Aug 3 2004, 06:40 AM)
Why is the reference allway made as "deputies <at> spamcop.net"
instead of as ....

Because these forums don't appear to be protected from spiders, so we should never put an email address in its actual form. I'm sure that the deputies get plenty of spam as it is. Please edit your post, as you've just potentially further compromised the address.

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turetzsr
post Aug 5 2004, 03:02 PM
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QUOTE(DavidT @ Aug 3 2004, 09:49 AM)
Because these forums don't appear to be protected from spiders, so we should never put an email address in its actual form. I'm sure that the deputies get plenty of spam as it is. Please edit your post, as you've just potentially further compromised the address.

dt
*
...Hi, Wazoo -- do you have the power to do what dt suggests, in the absence of compliance by dbiel? ty


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Wazoo
post Aug 5 2004, 03:16 PM
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Nope <g> ... jumped back and pulled it up to edit the data, was confused as what I was going to edit no longer existed ... dbiel was already in there ... <g> ... I think I also recollect a post over in test, now that you mention it though ....

As far as adding in more instructions on "how to post in here" ... let me start by pointing out that I've already made over a dozen changes to the FAQ today, some additions, some re-directed ... as big as it is already, can anyone notice? <g>
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turetzsr
post Aug 5 2004, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE(turetzsr @ Aug 5 2004, 04:02 PM)
...Hi, Wazoo -- do you have the power to do what dt suggests, in the absence of compliance by dbiel?  ty
*
QUOTE(Wazoo @ Aug 5 2004, 04:16 PM)
Nope <g> ... jumped back and pulled it up to edit the data, was confused as what I was going to edit no longer existed ... dbiel was already in there ...<snip>
*
...Ah, yes!
QUOTE
This post has been edited by dbiel: Today, 04:12 PM
...Thanks, dbiel!


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dbiel
post Aug 5 2004, 08:03 PM
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In response to the listing of email address, would you want to adjust the following:
[QUOTE]username @ spamcop.net
username @ cesmail.net
http://webmail.spamcop.net/horde/imp
Your username is your whole SpamCop address, such as: you @ spamcop.net
If you've truly forgotten your password, there's nothing for it but to contact Jeff, the owner of the email service, by writing to him here: support[at]spam---cop.net Domain name munged due to spiders
He'll need some details from you so that he knows you own the account you want a password for.
The link is http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1001
Or does not making it a clickable link serve the same purpose?

So which method is perfered for listing?
username @ cesmail.net or
username <at> cesmail.net
I would assume that the 2 spaces render the first address useless to spiders.

This post has been edited by dbiel: Aug 5 2004, 08:34 PM


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turetzsr
post Aug 5 2004, 08:10 PM
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QUOTE(dbiel @ Aug 5 2004, 09:03 PM)
<snip>
support@<snip>
<snip>
...Oops, you did it, again!
QUOTE(dbiel @ Aug 5 2004, 09:03 PM)
So which method is perfered for listing?
username @ cesmail.net or
username <at> cesmail.net
I would assume that the 2 spaces render the first address useless to spiders.
*
...You may be absolutely correct, but I wouldn't make the assumption. Even if true today, it may not be true tomorrow. I vote for "username <at> domain".


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dbiel
post Aug 5 2004, 08:28 PM
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Actually that was a direct cut and paste from the SpamCop site, I did not see how to edit it with out losing the entire point. but will go back and corrupt it now.


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