I just tried to send an e-mail to a friend and got back this mail from you:

- These recipients of your message have been processed by the mail server: acastiglioni[at]omegacenter.it; Failed; 5.1.3 (bad destination mailbox address syntax)

Remote MTA mx2.interac.it: SMTP diagnostic: 553 Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?212.216.176.141

First: it's not the first time it happens: even two days ago i recieved similar e-mail from you

second: the ip adress 212.216.176.141 is not mine!

third: the person who had to recieve my mail has not put my adress in any sort of blacklist of spammers or something similar

fourth: i'm not a spammer, but only a webmaster who, like millions of webmasters, owns a site and hae to send some e-mails every day.

I don't know who you are and what you exaclty do. Maybe this site is only a way to collect a large amount of e-mail adresses...i don't know.
I only know that you don't have the right to block my private email.
It could happen that somebody's gave you my adress in order to block it, but maybe you don't know that in internet there are things called viruses that changes the address of poeple who sends email into an existing one.
So, please, unlock my account. Maybe in USA this is legal...but not in Italy!

Well, i've forgotten another important thing.
I had a look in your site to a list of mailS that i was supposed to have sent and caused my adress to be blocked.
I'VE NEVER SENT THOSE E-MAILS AND I DON'T HAVE ANY VISRUS IN MY PC!
How can you block an adress without being sure that those mails had been sent and without controlling that the ip is correct?

Please see my reply about this very same IP Address in http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=119 . Thanks!

Please read the FAQ at http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=35

Spamcop does not block your mail. Spamcop publishes a list of IP addresses that have been witnessed sending spam. The ISP that you are sending the mail to has chosen to use this list to block mail.

The IP address is probably not "yours" but the IP address of your ISPs mail server. You either have to:

1) Change ISP to one that does not allow spammers to use their mail server
or
2) Convince you ISP to clean up their act and stop allowing spammers on their systems

In any case, 48 hours after the last spam is reported from the mail server it will be automatically delisted from the block list.

well...the problem is that the ip address was not of my ISP
I have another question.
You said that Spamcop blocks every mail that is sent through an isp which "allows" spamming.
Do you know that my isp is the italian one which has the largest amount of users?
This means that if a spammer uses my isp to send mails, all the other millions of mails coming form this isp will be blocked?
It seems quite stupid to me, doesn't it?

It would not have been blocked if you email did not go through that server. That IP looks like it bekongs to Telecom Italia Net, I believe interbusiness.it also uses these servers who is your provider?

i've added some lines on my previous message while you were answering to it.
my isp is tin.it, but the ip address is one of telecom italia, alice adsl, which is another kind of provider. it could be that they use the same servers, but what about my questions above?
who decide who is a spammer? if a use your service i'm virtually able to block an isp anytime i want

p.s.
sorry, by mistake i've opened a new topic instead of answering to that one

No, it does not work that way. No one is calling anyone a spammer. A server only gets on the blocklist die to the number of complaints against the number of emails sent and not reported. It seems as if your provider is ignoring complaints and does not care what thier servers are used for.

I think you would agree with me that everyone is tired of receiving mortgage quotes, penis enlargement, breast enhancement, weight loss, nude 40 year old teenage sluts, Viagra, vacation, lottery, prescription drug, business opportunities, genealogical, university degrees, gambling, get rich quick, MLM, pyramid schemes, Web Cams, Russian brides, work from home, stock scams, pirated software and everything else that is force fed into our inboxes.

The only way to stop these is for ISP's to block traffic coming from these reported servers. It is very sad that spammers have caused this situation.

I agree with what you said, i'm tired of spamming too.
But blocking an entire isp because of some spamming seems crazy to me.
I mean, your costumers may not recieve important mails because of a single spammer.
consider my situation: i have to communicate an urgent message to a friend. I don't have his telephone number but only his email adress.
what shall i do?
do i have to open another mail account and connect to internet with another isp only for one urgent mail? maybe tomorrow the new isp will be blocked and i'll have to do the same thing again and again...
i prefer to receive a mail with spamming anda easily delete it rather than missing some important infos...

Spamcop only adds to its blocklist temporarily. The IP gets removed 48 hours from the last spam report. I would hang on if I were you.

Yes some important messages might not get through but what about all the spam that will get through? Administrators that use the Block List have decided and they cose that they did not want the spam.

Personnaly I agree with them.

I wish my issues were that easy. Without filtering I'd get over 600 pieces of spam A DAY. Even at 2 seconds to identify the mail as spam it'd take me 20 minutes to just delete my spam.

if you have 600 mail of spamming every day it's possible that you have given your address quite easily...
you will save 20 minutes (remember that also outllook gives you filters...) but if you lose an importat mail you may lose a lot of money
48 hours is not temporarily... in 48 hours i can send a traditional letter.
e-mails are important because they are fast...
i understand that this service exists because there are people who wants and pays for it...nothing personal but i do hope that they soon understand that it is unuseful and crazy

It is my hope that a Deputy or Admin will review the evidence regarding the SCBL listings of 212.216.176.141 and 212.216.176.150 with an eye towards helping the tin.it administrators to stop the spamming, improve the parsing, or both.

The administrators for 212.216.176.141 and 212.216.176.150 have received reports and have decided they like the spammers money more than those that are getting their email blocked. You should contact them. There is plenty of evidence.

Evidently they do not care that they are hosing spammers. Pretty soon they will start loosing clients due to their lack of control.

i don't work for any ISP, but i don't think it is so easy...
I think that also every isp have damages because of spamming.
Your words are quite demagogic. I know you have to promote and support this service, but you can't cut the entire arm if you have a broken nail...

serra, what did the Customer Service or Technical Support personnel at tin.it say when you complained to them? If you did not complain to them, please do so.

this is even more demagogic...
i didn't complain to tin.it cos don't care of the spamming i recieve: it doesn't bother me. i just delete the spam.
tin.it offers also a filter against spam and it works quite well, filtering about 80% of spamming i recieve. if i will receive a lot of spam be sure that i will complain to them. but spamcop have nothing to do with it...
You know that it is not only a tin.it fault. every isp have users who are spammers. and the bigger is the isp is the more spam is sent.
i complain to spamcop because i recieved a damage from it, not from tin.it
spamcop is not robin hood...their owners sell a service and thay make money with that, so don't blame tin.it for making money

It is the tin.it administrators that are not taking care of the spam coming from the tin.it servers. It is therefore the tin.it administrators that deserve your ire, not SpamCop.

Access to the SpamCop Blocking List is free. Very large providers that want to host a mirror of it for their own use have that option for an extra fee that helps to support the bandwidth and hardware necessary to provide that level of service.

How do you know that tin.it is not doing anything to stop spam?
maybe is not so easy... if it was there would not be spammers anymore...
do you know an ISP that stopped any kind of spam because of costumers complaints?
I don't deny the problem, but i don't agree with the remedy you propose.
i think it sometimes could be more harmful than spamming itself.
Spamcop is free? well, it is unuseful and you don't even make money from that, I'm sorry (just joking)

p.s
how do you recieve your list of ip's to be blocked? Do your costumers send it to you or what?

I'm a customer of spamcop and I turn in my spam so the originating IP will be added to their blocklist, and I do it very enthusiastically.

ISP's who are known to disregard spam reports and complaints are known as "spam friendly", and yes, there are more ISP's than we realize that are taking action against spammers. My remedy is to keep reporting spam and to use Spamcop's blocklist. I've found that not only am I not missing any e-mail, I'm getting a lot less spam that I have to wade through to find the one e-mail I'm looking for.

Please note that most people who post here in the forums are users that choose to help and not employees of Spamcop.

I know that tin.it is not doing enough to stop spam coming from those two servers because over 2% of the email that SpamCop Blocking List (SCBL) Users see coming from those two servers is reported as spam by SpamCop Free Reporters and Customers.

ISPs stop spammers all the time. Look at all the spammers that have been kicked off three or more ISPs at http://www.spamhaus.org/rokso/index.lasso

OTOH, ISPs generally don't have costumers, only actors and costume ball participants have costumers.

Most SpamCop Customers started as Free Reporters. Please see http://www.spamcop.net/anonsignup.shtml for details on signing up as a Free Reporter. Also, regarding the SCBL, please see "How much does it cost?" at http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/299.html

SpamCop Free Reporters and Customers parse and report spam through the SpamCop Parsing and Reporting Service. Reported sources of spam are added to the SCBL after the "at least two reports from different reporters" and "over 2% reported/queried" thresholds are reached, and stay on the SCBL until 48 hours after the last report.

Sorry for my english mistake...
i repeat that blocking an entire isp, in most cases, could cause more damages than spamming and you can't deny that.
You've never miss an email...well, you're lucky. I couldn't send 3 important e-mails in only 24 hours.
I know that most users are not employees of spamcop...anyway i think i'm not offending anyone. I also think that this doesn't make any difference.

The entire ISP is not blocked only the offending machine and only by admins that have made the desicion to block.

Not only spam passes through the offending machine.

Spammers have spoiled it for everyone.

I think i won't convince you and you won't convince me...
well i hope you will find better way to stop spam.
bye

Well, I hope you will find better service from tin.it or a better ISP.

Goodbye.

I don't think I will this one works great.

Good luck I hope your mail works again one day.

So do I!

Perhaps when Italy also enacts the European Community anti-spam legislation?

That way an ISP's customers can sue them, if they fail to act, or the spammers, if they can find them, for the amount of unsolicited mail they send.

... and opt out links would work ... and pigs might fly?

I am also a user of the free service (not a customer, nor employee). Anything that reduces the internet bandwidth taken by people abusing the internet is good in my book.

What's wrong with Robin Hood, by the way? He did an excellent job righting wrongs done to the peasant population of old England by authorities that not only did not care, but also condoned the corrupt sherrif of Nottingham and his men.

PS thanks Marjolein for the list of cc: addresses (http://javawoman.com/reportspam.html for anyone who did not catch the newsgroup post).

It may work great for you, but you fail to understand that any system that cuts off a significant number of innocent people for an extended period of time, is less than perfect.

Spamcop is a vigitante type organisation. There is no information on the site about who runs it. There is no way to communicate with the people who run it.

The Help sections are handled by volunteers who insist that they have no connection with the service - and that is supposed to be a positive, why?

It may work well for you, but to me it looks very scary indeed.

Please see http://mailsc.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/109.html

The link is not available to me since I am not a paid member.

Sorry, make that http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/109.html

We've tried :-(

Richard

Yes, you are right, SpamCop does occasionally block all the mail coming from an Internet Service Provider (ISP). If I understand correctly, this only happens when the administrators of that service have repeatedly refused requests to investigate and/or ban known spammers (a spammer being defined as at least 10 spam reports in 24 hours, given that perhaps less than 0.1% of spam is reported by spamcop users this indicates over 1000 pieces of spam being sent out).

It is the other ISPs, the destination of the eMail, that have decided to use SpamCop to cut down on the eMail entering their system. It is like the Post Office saying "you are sending too many letters without stamps, we are going to refuse your deliveries until you improve your process" (or as my twelve year old son put it, someone abusing the train service by refusing to pay for tickets and placing their baggage on half the seats in the carriage making it difficult for other people to sit down, so the train owner chucks them off the train).

It is less than perfect, but can you think of a better way of encouraging ISPs to investigate the spam?

I can imagine there is one very good reason why there is no information on the site about who runs it (not that I have looked in-depth). That is that the administrators or owners of anti-spam sites have upset a lot of criminals. They tend to find themselves the target not only of hate mail, but also death threats. Would you want to live that way?

The help sections are read by the administrators as well as the volunteers. If you have a genuine problem, such as yours - not knowing how to prevent your eMail being blocked - then either the administrators or, more usually, one of the users of this site, will respond, but, yes, the users tend to be volunteers (customers). I do not pay for the service, as I do not use spamcop's email system, but my mail service providers both use it to block some spam eMails (though I still get 5-20 pieces in any one day).

I can understand how this can look scary from a business perspective. I work with computers on a daily basis and have learnt not to trust eMail as a 100% guaranteed delivery method. Mainly because some people simply do not read their eMail, or do not treat it as a priority so do not respond for days or even weeks. Faxes are treated as important and telephone calls are returned almost instantly. Also, occasionally, there may be network or virus problems that mean the service is not available at all.

Personally, I am more scared of people who can anonymously send eMails with words like "penis" (or worse - I now read my eMails off-line) into my inbox without me being able to know who they are and slap their face for daring to use such a word to a lady!

Please forgive me for asking if I am being intrusive and you do not wish to answer, but I am intrigued. Has your ISP responded to your complaints about blocked eMail? Or, have you decided to move to a less spam-friendly service provider such as the web-based Yahoo or Mail.com (at least for the days your service is blocked)?

What would you think of adding customercare[at]tin.it to the list of recipients of reports of spam originating at those IP Addresses? These are the same people that have to deal with the irate customers, perhaps they can work for internal change.

It is natural to be upset when something doesn't work as it should. However, there are many people who administer email systems and others who have researched how spam affects email. One of the ways that is most widely used to control spam is blocklists. Spamcop is only one such blocklist.

The reason that blocklists are popular is that if email coming from a particular server has been identified as spam and the operator of that server has been told that spam is coming from his server and if the operator of that server does nothing about it, then the only way to prevent spam from reaching your email system is to block it at your server and return it to the sender. If this means that other customers of the spammy server cannot send email, their problem is with their provider who is acting irresponsibly because he is allowing spam.

And yes, if you cannot convince your provider to stop sending spam, then you need to find a more reliable email provider. There are lots of reliable email services - some of them Internet Service Providers and some of them web based email services (similar to hotmail and yahoo).

If you received a package from a carrier who said that you also had to receive several dirty, greasy packages crawling with bugs, would you receive it? Wouldn't you expect the person who sent you the package to be horrified that the carrier he had chosen was so irresponsible? And immediately arrange for another carrier?

The *sender* of email is the one who can control whether spam is being sent or not. The *sender* of email is responsible for choosing a reliable email carrier.

Miss Betsy

SpamCop doesn't "cut" anyone off, it doesn't even use it's database to bounce emails. What is 'vigilante' about sending potential spam to a "held mail" folder if the sender isn't on the intended recipient's whitelist? Besides, who are you to decide how others can choose to manage their incoming email?


Right. A help desk manned by minimum wage workers reading from a scri_pt and who barely understand how SpamCop works is so much more preferable to a users group manned by people who understand the basics. Gawd, some of the people answering questions here are experienced email admins - what more could you ask for?

And why would anyone want to work a help desk that would generate the amount of abuse that spammers would thrust upon them?