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SpamCop Discussion > Discussions & Observations > SpamCop Reporting Help
tkalfaoglu
My email just got banned from yahoo for bouncing!
Upon checking its Bounce history, I see:

Last Bounced Message

Remote host said: 550 5.7.1 Email rejected. Visit:http://spamcop.net [MAIL_FROM]

So, my mail system had bounced Yahoo!

I removed the
FEATURE(`enhdnsbl',`bl.spamcop.net',`"550 Email rejected. Visit:http://spamcop..

line from my sendmail config until this mess is fixed mad.gif
StevenUnderwood
What mess? Yahoo often gets on the list and almost every time it is for actual spam being sent from the IP in question. Without posting the actual IP, there is no way for anyone to investigate if that is still the case or if it were listed by a mistake (unlikely since it takes more than one reporter to get an IP listed).
tkalfaoglu
Well, I cannot afford our customers to stop receiving from Yahoo Groups altogether because spamcop decided to block them. Therefore, I had to remove the spamcop check.
dra007
So what's your point? Are you here to rant or get some help?
turetzsr
QUOTE(tkalfaoglu @ Nov 29 2004, 07:59 AM)
Well, I cannot afford our customers to stop receiving from Yahoo Groups altogether because spamcop decided to block them. Therefore, I had to remove the spamcop check.
*
...Correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to be saying that you can not afford e-mail from potential spam sources to be rejected. If that is the case, then you don't want to reject any e-mail based on information from SpamCop or any other BL and so what you have done (removing that line in your config) accomplishes that perfectly (but makes the rest of us wonder why you had it there in the first place)! smile.gif <g>
davidearl
I too have just discovered Yahoo Groups suspended me because spamcop was bouncing mail to my groups. Presumably at the same time as the original poster and for the same reason.

The help says I should whitelist returns.groups.yahoo.com, which I did a long time ago. Yet every couple of months I still get locked out of yahoo. The whitelisting advice in the FAQ just doesn't work.

Also I don't understand what is going on. I thought all candidate spam was diverted to Held Mail for me to deal with as I choose. Why is spamcop bouncing anything on my behalf? Surely it is up to me to decide.

This is very frustrating. Blacklisting a huge mailing list server because some groups which are nothing to do with me are spammed is hardly reasonable, and the work around doesn't work. Surely anyone who uses yahoo groups would never want Yahoo groups blocked under any circumstances.

The problem is compounded by (a) not finding out Yahoo Groups has stopped working until trying to post or realising the quietness is deafening and (b) Yahoo's reactivation procedure doesn't work, at least for me.

David Earl
turetzsr
QUOTE(davidearl @ Nov 30 2004, 06:36 PM)
I too have just discovered Yahoo Groups suspended me because spamcop was bouncing mail to my groups. Presumably at the same time as the original poster and for the same reason.
*
...For the OP, SpamCop was not bouncing the mail -- the OP's SERVER was!
QUOTE(tkalfaoglu @ Nov 26 2004, 08:08 AM)
  My email just got banned from yahoo for bouncing!
<snip>So, my mail system had bounced Yahoo! [emphasis by Steve T]

QUOTE(davidearl @ Nov 30 2004, 06:36 PM)
The help says I should whitelist returns.groups.yahoo.com, which I did a long time ago. Yet every couple of months I still get locked out of yahoo. The whitelisting advice in the FAQ just doesn't work.
*
...You have mail coming from an address <whatever>@returns.groups.yahoo.com (which is in your whitelist) and it isn't getting to your SpamCop Inbox? You may want to post a few more details here for the experts to review.

QUOTE(davidearl @ Nov 30 2004, 06:36 PM)
Also I don't understand what is going on. I thought all candidate spam was diverted to Held Mail for me to deal with as I choose. Why is spamcop bouncing anything on my behalf? Surely it is up to me to decide.
*
...Yes, that's my understanding, too. Can you provide the evidence that SpamCop is actually bouncing mails? If so, there may be a problem that JT needs to address....

QUOTE(davidearl @ Nov 30 2004, 06:36 PM)
This is very frustrating. Blacklisting a huge mailing list server because some groups which are nothing to do with me are spammed is hardly reasonable, and the work around doesn't work. Surely anyone who uses yahoo groups would never want Yahoo groups blocked under any circumstances.
*
...Wrong and wrong, IMHO. Many "huge ... server[s]" are the sources of spam and I, for one, don't care how big a provider a spam source is -- I want to see that IP on the blocklist! I do use Yahoo!Groups and I certainly want the Yahoo IP addresses through which spam is being sent to be on the blacklist!

QUOTE(davidearl @ Nov 30 2004, 06:36 PM)
The problem is compounded by (a) not finding out Yahoo Groups has stopped working until trying to post or realising the quietness is deafening and (cool.gif Yahoo's reactivation procedure doesn't work, at least for me.

David Earl
*
...( a ) Seems like you should check the Yahoo!Groups website periodically. ( b ) Seems like something you need to take up with Yahoo. smile.gif <g>
Merlyn
What are you two talking about? Spamcop does not bounce email.
davidearl
QUOTE(Merlyn @ Dec 1 2004, 02:36 AM)
What are you two talking about? Spamcop does not bounce email.
*



Indeed, that's what I thought, which is why I am confused.

However, the message that Yahoo reports as the reason for the bounce (that is the reply it received from spamcop) is

"Remote host said: 553 5.3.0 Spam blocked see: http://spamcop.net/bl.shtml?66.94.237.41"

(and by the time I realise what is going on, usually the block has cleared, assuming it ever existed, of course).

Yahoo sends to my own domain email address, which then forwards to spamcop. As far as I'm aware, my domain ISP isn't applying any spam filters, but I suppose it is just possible that the bounce is happening there, before it reaches spamcop - I will investigate that.

As I said, this has happened every few months over the past couple of years.

I'm not an unhappy spamcop customer, but that doesn't stop it being frustrating when something strange happens and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it.
davidearl
QUOTE(davidearl @ Dec 1 2004, 10:36 AM)
As far as I'm aware, my domain ISP isn't applying any spam filters, but I suppose it is just possible that the bounce is happening there, before it reaches spamcop - I will investigate that.
*



I did, and while there is a blocking facility available in my domain's control panel, it is not turned on.
davidearl
QUOTE(turetzsr @ Dec 1 2004, 01:13 AM)
....Wrong and wrong, IMHO.  Many "huge ... server[s]" are the sources of spam and I, for one, don't care how big a provider a spam source is -- I want to see that IP on the blocklist!  I do use Yahoo!Groups and I certainly want the Yahoo IP addresses through which spam is being sent to be on the blacklist!
*



Hmm. If mail were being routed through Yahoo servers, then yes I agree. But if its going through one of the groups, which is the usual issue, then each group is functionally like a server within a server, and it is the group which is the unit that needs to be targeted. In fact, as yahoo presumably uses multiple servers interchangably, blocking one IP address isn't going to help.

I know this isn't how spamcop works, but in this case it is like all tracks at a main line station being shut down because there's a broken down train on just one of them.

QUOTE(turetzsr @ Dec 1 2004, 01:13 AM)
...( a ) Seems like you should check the Yahoo!Groups website periodically.  ( b ) Seems like something you need to take up with Yahoo.  smile.gif <g>
*


Well, obviously. And yes, I have already asked Yahoo about this, but so far all I got was a list of instructions telling me to do what I already did, which was what didn't work. I'm still trying.
turetzsr
QUOTE(davidearl @ Dec 1 2004, 04:57 AM)
QUOTE(turetzsr @ Nov 30 2004, 07:13 PM)
...Wrong and wrong, IMHO.  Many "huge ... server[s]" are the sources of spam and I, for one, don't care how big a provider a spam source is -- I want to see that IP on the blocklist!  I do use Yahoo!Groups and I certainly want the Yahoo IP addresses through which spam is being sent to be on the blacklist!
*
Hmm. If mail were being routed through Yahoo servers, then yes I agree. But if its going through one of the groups, which is the usual issue, then each group is functionally like a server within a server, and it is the group which is the unit that needs to be targeted. In fact, as yahoo presumably uses multiple servers interchangably, blocking one IP address isn't going to help.
*
...IIUC, e-mail from Yahoo!Groups goes out to the world (e.g., to you) through a server (perhaps one of several). If that e-mail is spam, it gets reported and once the SpamCop threshhold is met, the server's (or servers') IP address(es) gets listed. End of story. The solution is for Yahoo to stop the spam, not for SpamCop to try to reason through the internal workings of Yahoo!Groups. When the spam stops, the IP gets delisted (until the next spammer starts sending spew through Yahoo!Groups).

QUOTE(davidearl @ Dec 1 2004, 04:57 AM)
I know this isn't how spamcop works, but in this case it is like all tracks at a main line station being shut down because there's a broken down train on just one of them.
<snip>
*
...Not really. Only one track (an IP address through which a significant amount of spam is coming) gets listed and that doesn't shut it down (remember, it's the receiving hosts that have the option of what to do with the information that the IP address has been the source of spam).
Jeff G.
It sounds like David's Email Service Provider (that sits between Yahoo! Groups Outgoing Server(s) and the SpamCop Email Service) is bouncing messages based on the Yahoo! Groups Outgoing Server(s) being listed on the SCBL in violation of the trust David has placed in that Email Service Provider. My conclusion is that David needs to have a frank discussion with his Email Service Provider, find a new Email Service Provider, or subscribe his SpamCop Email Address to the Yahoo! Groups he prefers.
turetzsr
QUOTE(Jeff G. @ Dec 1 2004, 09:10 PM)
It sounds like David's Email Service Provider (that sits between Yahoo! Groups Outgoing Server(s) and the SpamCop Email Service) is bouncing messages based on the Yahoo! Groups Outgoing Server(s) being listed on the SCBL in violation of the trust David has placed in that Email Service Provider.
<snip>
*
...Good point, Jeff G. Although the following would suggest an attempt to discover whether that is what is happening:
QUOTE(davidearl @ Dec 1 2004, 04:46 AM)
QUOTE(davidearl @ Dec 1 2004, 04:36 AM)
As far as I'm aware, my domain ISP isn't applying any spam filters, but I suppose it is just possible that the bounce is happening there, before it reaches spamcop - I will investigate that.
*
I did, and while there is a blocking facility available in my domain's control panel, it is not turned on.
*
IIUC, it does not eliminate the possibility that David's e-mail provider is rejecting spam at the time it arrives at its point of presence to the internet (as suggested by the 500-level reject message), before it gets to the point where the control panel he mentions would apply.
...Nevertheless, given the (hopefully small) possibility that it is a problem with SpamCop, I hope David is still trying to determine an answer to my earlier:
QUOTE(turetzsr @ Nov 30 2004, 07:13 PM)
QUOTE(davidearl @ Nov 30 2004, 06:36 PM)
Also I don't understand what is going on. I thought all candidate spam was diverted to Held Mail for me to deal with as I choose. Why is spamcop bouncing anything on my behalf? Surely it is up to me to decide.
*
...Yes, that's my understanding, too. Can you provide the evidence that SpamCop is actually bouncing mails? If so, there may be a problem that JT needs to address....
*
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