Hi, guys.

If you're interested, please check out the webmail upgrade which is current running in beta:

http://delta2.cesmail.net

This should be pretty much like the current webmail, just with some new features and all the latest code. If you see anything that doesn't work or is missing, please comment here in this forum.

One thing, I know that the Held Mail button is missing from the top menu. That's really just a link to the Held Mail folder. For now, just change to the Held Mail folder using the folder selector at the upper right.

Everything else should be fine. If we don't hear of any show-stopping bugs, we'll roll this out in a week or so, so please take a look, especially if you're a regular webmail user.

JT

Creating a new message the input files were simply blank boxes with no discriptions
Basic logic implied that they were in the following order
To
CC
BCC
Subject
But it would be nice to be able to see the titles

IE 6.0 SP1 on a messy server setup
Dumb terminal
SCO Unix
Cubix interface window
Citrix
Windows NT 4.0 SP6

Did a test sending an Word Doc attachement in response the the following topic
which worked fine.

This is due to problems with the default "color scheme" that is configured under:

Options / Edit options for: / Global / Other Information / Display Options / Select your color scheme.

[on edit: I originally thought that the system defaulted to the first color scheme on the list, "Azur," but after further testing, I've discovered that the defaut, when a user hasn't done any specific confirugation, is "Hi-Contrast" which has white backgrounds, and therefore produces the "white on white" which is making the box labels invisible]

The problem goes away if you change your color scheme to "Purple Horde," which is the scheme that appears to be the normal one for the current SC webmail. This is a problem that I reported to JT over a YEAR AND A HALF AGO during the (forgotten? aborted? atrophied?) previous webmail Beta test, which you'll find documented here:

http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=3572

To be specific, I took a look at the CSS behind the "new" beta and found that those header field labels are using the "light" style, which is white in color and the Azur color scheme seems to use a white background for most screens, so you wind up with white on white, which is why you didn't see the labels in the message composition window.

This is currently a "show stopper" for rolling out the new webmail, but it should be easy to fix....either by making everyone's color scheme default to "Purple Horde" or by fixing the CSS so that you never get white on white, no matter which color scheme you select (the latter is probably the better fix, IMO). You'll note also that on the current beta login screen, that most of the background is white and that the link text attribute (for "the news page") is defined as yellow, making it all but unreadable, so that also needs changing.

If you read that old thread (it's got cobwebs growing on it), you'll also note that Jeff G had reported some problems that may or may not have been resolved by now. It would be good to have some sort of specific response to his report before any of us "sign off" on this.

DT

I also had problems reported in that thread with reporting via forward to my submit address. That is working in the new beta.

I personally do not consider the white on white a "show stopper" but agree it should be fixed. I have noticed 2 other issues.

1. The SSL certificate is invalid for delta2 (understandable and would be fixed once the app was moved to the correct server).
2. Login is required every time I leave the site and return.

I have used the beta exclusively the last week while on vacation and found it better for dialup that the live system.

I've spent the last week far away from home on the end of a very slow, always on connection.

The speed of the beta version is significantly faster than the live version.

Andrew

Unknown variables ....
... may be running on a newer/faster dedicated system
... lack of users connected on this new system/install
... software might just be faster

I'd be leaning towards the first two items for right now

One of the things that the live system does (mentioned to JT ay back) that the new system does not (especially noticed on a slow conection) it reset the prompt to the start of the username prompt after the spamcop graphic is loaded. On a slow connection, I have time to get half my username typed in before it is reset. I have never had the issue on my broadband connection because the graphic loads much faster.

The new system does not have that graphic (yet).

The reason it IS a show stopper is that "white on white" anywhere in a user interface is totally unacceptable....ask any software designers. While you and I might know how to overcome the problem by changing our options, how would the average user know to do that? (I doubt they would)

But how hard can this be to fix? (surely not very hard at all) However, I submitted information about this problem a year and a half ago...I want to know what happened to the information we sent to JT during the beta testing that was going on very early in 2005.

DT

This just in as reply to my email to Jeff:
> 3. Default color scheme has white on white for descriptions of fields
> while creating a new message.
>

I'll have to look at that.

I hope someone sends him my most recent discovery....I experimented with a bunch of the different color scheme options and found that the default one isn't actually the first one on the list ("Azur") but rather one named "Hi-Contrast" which has white backgrounds. The one he should probably use, because it best matches the current webmail, is "Purple Horde." I never received any responses to things I've sent Jeff about the varous Betas, so maybe you could send this to him?

DT

Hello? Anyone home? Looks like things are slowing down again on this latest Beta.....

DT

Reply from JT indicated he is looking for more feedback on this before doing a cutover.

From JeffG's previous comments in the other thread:

This is still the case... Alt+A is select all in all folders.
This is still the case.
This is still the case but was mentioned in the thread opener.


Jeff: Also, there is currently a "Report Spam" button that directs to http://mailsc.spamcop.net/. I find this button useful when forwarding to my submit account failed (which is currently working in the beta, btw).

At least he answers you.

The "color scheme" problem is still there. Please suggest to him that he fix that before replacing the current webmail with this new version. As for more feedback, it doesn't seem to be forthcoming...

DT

OK, I'm trying to figure this out. Who all here sees the "white on white" when doing a new message?

What I'm seeing is that if you have a color scheme selected that doesn't exist any more, then the Hi-Contrast is getting selected for some reason.

If you truly have no color scheme at all (which means you've never logged in a selected a color scheme) the default is "Blue and White".

If you selected Lavender before, the name has changed, so that's why you get Hi-Contrast.

Who else gets Hi-Contrast right now? I'd like to look in the database and see what you have selected now. I can probably just force all those people over when we make the switch.

JT

I have never played with the color scheme, in fact I needed DavidT guide to even find it. The default for me was "Azur," which resulted in the white on white display. This is the first time I have even gone in to check what the settings were/are.
Are you saying that the "Azur," color scheme no longer exists but remains as the selected scheme?

I think if you actually select "Azur" you'll see that it's totally different from white on white. Azur is probably what you see when you actually have a "bogus" theme selected.

From what I can see in the database, you actually have "lavender" selected. I just fixed lavender, by the way, so it works in the new webmail.

Who else see white on white when they login? Post your spamcop.net username here if it isn't obvious.

Thanks
JT

While I was in the global options menu, thought I would take a look around.
the filters group opens up a list of options that seems to be missing something; no options are displayed.
Could it be a function of the scheme setting?

I see that has "fixed" my problem and my scheme has magicly changed to lavender.
Was lavender the default color at some point in time?
How does not "select" a bogus theme? or is it simply the result of the current selected theme in the Current version of WebMail carrying forward to the beta version, but not finding it defined in the beta version?

Yes, actually I never changed your color preference in the database. At some point, in the old webmail, it appears you picked lavender.

You're correct. If you pick a color in the old webmail that doesn't exist in the new, that's when you have a problem. At this point, lavender seems to be the only one and I fixed it. However, I'm not sure how the other people saw the white on white. If anyone still is seeing that, please let me know your username so I can check the database.


Well, the problem is that the whole system is made to be extended. So, the filters are an application and each application can have configuration options. However, in our case, there are no configuration options for the filters. There are filter settings and such, but that's all set in the filter application. The filter application has no further configuration. But the overall system adds a configuration option to that menu for every application, so it lets you edit it even though they are empty.

Clear as mud?

Anyway, you're not missing anything. That's an empty menu. I'll try to eliminate it, but there's really not supposed to be anything there.

JT

JT, thanks for the replies.
The only strange thing is how did I ever change my setting to lavender in the first place when I did not know where to find the setting options? Could it have happened to have been a default at some point in time?

OK, could someone point me to the setup in the old webmail for changing color settings? I don't recall ever changing them or seeing a place to change them.

Default, you actually don't have an entry in the database at all. In that case, the system displays the system default (but still doesn't actually stick anything in the database for you). No idea how it got there, probably not a big deal. On the old webmail, it's actually much easier to find, incidentally.

JT


It's under "Display Options", upper right corner of Options.

JT

I'm seeing it now in both my and my wife's logins, but I don't want to post our usernames in public, because all you do is add "spamcop.net" or "cesmail.net" and our addresses are published....not all the people who come here are "friendly" if you know what I mean...I will use the two private methods of sending to you in your forum profile (PM and "send an email") and hope you receive one of those.

I just checked the color scheme list in the Display Options of the beta, and it seems that you've removed the "Hi-Contrast" scheme from the list. That seems to be the scheme that's being presented to both my wife and I now, even though my wife's setting in the old webmail is "Standard" and mine is "Use Default Value." I say "seems to be" in that when I last experimented with "Hi-Contrast," it was the one that had the "white-on-white" problem and it had the colors I'm now seeing in both of our beta logins. Now, when I login to the beta, neither one of us seems to have a color scheme selected. This is odd, because I had previously selected "Purple Horde" for my own login and now that selection seems to have been blown away for my login. I intentionally didn't mess with my wife's, so that I could have a "control" for experimentation purposes, but I didn't realize that our (old webmail) settings were different. However, I think that my wife's setting of "Standard" is functionally equivalent to my current lack of a setting (Use Default Value) in that I just tried changing her over from "Standard" to "Use Default Value" in the Options on the current webmail and the change didn't "take."

I've written to the author of the Horde "Hi-Contrast" theme to see if he has any light to shed on the "white on white" issue. JT, please check the PM or the email I'm sending from this system and take a look at the beta using my two accounts. When you go to compose a new message, I think you'll see the "white on white" effect.

DT

Thanks. Mine is set to "Use Default Value" on the live system (login: underwood) and I saw the white on white issue until I selected "Purple Horde" in the Beta. Is it possible to set "Purple Horde" as the default for everyone in the new application until they reset it?

The reason I did not find it, I was actually looking for a color when scanning the pages, not "Use Default Value"

When I logged into the beta this morning, there was a Held Mail button in the top menu, so it seems that you've added it. However, it didn't work (for either of my acccounts), in that instead of displaying the Held Mail, it brought up a new login screen.

DT

Confirmed the same symptom... and the button looks pressed down all the time (box around it) at least with the Purple Horde setting.

There's a minor bug with this. But, the main problem is that this probably won't work until the site is live at the webmail.spamcop.net address for a few reasons.

JT

OK, that's understandable. Any progress on the color scheme issues?

DT

Yes, I think I see mostly what's going on. I'll probably just fix the database when we make the cut-over. I need to make sure we don't break the old webmail in the meantime.

JT

OK, if you can fix the color scheme issues during the transition, then maybe it's time to make the new version "live"? As for the color scheme fix, I think all you'd need to do is to change everone's setting to "Purple Horde" initially and let them change it to something else if they want after the switch.

DT

I like to navigate with the keyboard as much as possible. I note that with the new beta software that alt-m no longer takes me to held mail. Also, alt-g no longer logs one off and I see no other shortcut for this.

I'd also like to see more keyboard shortcuts, such as marking all the messages with a single keyboard shortcut.

Finally, a glossary of available shortcuts would be much appreciated.


-er

Alt-a selects all messages as described earlier in this thread (while updating the current status on problems seen in the previous beta which fizzled).

It is possible you can find a list of all current shortcuts by going to the Horde IMP web site. That is the application in use for the webmail system. If you research it and summarize, I'm sure we could add it to our FAQ or glossary here.

Not sure I recall seeing anything like that under either the user or Admin FAQ/Wiki ....

No "Help" screens available that list key-codes?

I'll give it a shot, make notes, and get back to y'all.

(oh, and I'll be testing https://delta2.cesmail.net/ [note the "s"] instead ... unless that's completely not useful for you.

None that I have ever found, not that I have looked heavily. Don't normally use too much key combinations when reading emails.

This would be a show-stopper for me.

You can find one at Webmail Keyboard Shortcut Reference Card, posted by JeffG over a year ago.

No, my email address is not obvious.

I was hoping that we might get any new versions to remember sign-in information, or at least have that option.

This thread seems to have been going on for several weeks, but it's only today a notice appeared when I was logging in? Anyhow...

1. We don't seem to have a "white on white" issue here. Can't remember the name of the theme used, but it's kind of light pink/purple. Looks like in the old version.

2. Request we'd been thinking of making for a while: an option to extend Whitelist and Blacklist to more than the 10 or so addresses currently showing on screen. Useful if & when having to check a/o edit those lists rather than browsing blindly.

3. Blacklist in Beta version does not open. Whitelist does.

4. Request made a year or two ago: add a To header to the Date/From/Subject/Size headers. That's because we have strict control on the addresses registered under our domain. "Non-existent" addresses such as info@ / webmaster@ / whatever@) are reserved exclusively for the use of spammers . It would save the time needed to open some of the spams with Subject headers that look like valid mail.

5. Looking forward to the improved speed, as I'll be leaving on a three-week trip on Tuesday, with the possibility of only having slow dial-up connections.

Because of the trip, it would be appreciated if any question to the above were also Cc'ed to tingo[at]tanca.com. Not always easy to find the time to browse a forum when traveling.



Our browser (Mozilla) allows for this. On the other hand, do you really want the browsers at any Internet café to remember you?

Thank you. There is one major error in those shortcuts: Alt-e erases messages in the trash folder, not Report.

-er

I just had a look, and from my limited perspective, everything worked great. Better than ever! No display issues.

I don't normally look at the webmail -- I open it and don't look at it much. I set up filtering rules so I wouldn't have to create & coordinate the same filters on my IMAP mail readers. (I use Thunderbird because it runs everywhere else, but I'm not wedded to it.) So I was completely satisfied that my filters run just great on the new version.

ALL THAT SAID, I really like the newer version of Horde IMP. I've used it elsewhere, and it's very nice. This one does seem noticeably snappier than other places, so (as discussed earlier) it may not be as fast when everyone else is on it. But I do really like it as a webmail application.

Are there any thoughts of providing any of the other apps in the Horde suite (such as Kronolith)? The Horde suite's import & export & interop features are comparable to desktop PIMs. If spamcop ever added them I might start using Horde more and Thunderbird less.

Just dreamin'....

Nothing is worse than changing hotkeys that are already well established. The new version as done away with alt-g to logoff. Now one must click with the mouse. Similarly, alt-m no longer moves to the held folder. One can do alt-l, h, CR, more keystrokes. Why? The alt-b, to return to the folder in which one was is gone, too. An alt-i will work to return to the inbox but that doesn't help for the held folder, which now requires 3 key strokes rather a single one. Finally, alt-e launched the erasure of the messages in trash and that shortcut has disappeared, too. Oh yes, the older way of checking all messages has been changed for no good reason at all.

-er

It's nice to see some other participants weighing in on this topic (it's all due to a new link on the webmail login page, inviting such participation). I don't use the hotkeys, so I'll stay out of that for now, but back to the issues with the color schemes....

My wife's account has had its color scheme changed to "Blue and White." We didn't do that, but I had identified our logins to JT, so maybe he changed it? Or made a more global change? But my account (which previously had "Purple Horde" selected, then that selection got deleted somehow) is still exhibiting the "white on white" problem (specifically in the message composition screen), and when I check my Options, none of the schemes are selected. Yes, I know I could fix the problem myself by selecting one of the schemes, but this is indicative of potential problems for other users, which is the point of testing out a Beta in the first place.

I can also confirm that the "Blacklist" won't open up in the Beta...it produces an entirely blank HTML page without navigation.

DT

I did a search and did not find this item in a post:

When selecting "report spam," a new instance of the browser opens (I'm using Safari) whereas in the old scheme the browser simply changed to the reporting URL using the same window.
If it is possible, I would suggest the compromise that the reporting page open in a new tab. IE is supposed to support in it's next incarnation, most browsers already support tabs.

To me, it's a bit inconvenient for a new window to open since it's not clear what happens when selecting "webmail" from this new window. Presently, of course, I am returned to the non-beta version of the webmail page, but I can see a problem with creating too many instances if each selection results in opening a new window.

Here are a couple more things to look at:

1 - The "Held Mail" button is requiring me to login again
2 - The is no "Empty Trash" button

JLeduc - Big Fan of Spamcop

Response from JT on same request:
The system is set up to use cookies in the spamcop.net domain but the
server is in the cesmail.net domain. So, all cookies fail and the auth
information is in the URL. I think that will work better once the server
is in the right domain.

Also, if you look up in this thread, you will see a link to an earlier beta and at that time, IE saved teh login information.

In regards to my previous post - the item regarding itme 2 - the "Empty Trash" button missing,
it is not missing from all accounts.
My own account is OK but my wife's account is missing the icon !

How can that be ??

JLeduc

These are decisions made by the Horde IMP people, actually a long time ago. SpamCop is only implementing the upgrade from the current applicaton. This is actually the second attempt at an application upgrade.


This might be a recent problem because I would swear I tested that when I started the Beta.


1. Explained earlier in this thread.

2. I have an Empty Trash button. I also have an Empty Trash link inside the Trash folder.

"Support" is one thing .. "configured to use" is another ....

I have not looked at the code involved with the Horde/IMP tool, only extrapolating from other web-page layout/design issues .. for example, this Forum application ... I ended up offering two sets of links to the items at the top of the screen to offer that choice .... one link will attempt to open a 'new' browser instance" .. depending on your browser/configuration, this may end up being a new tab or it may be a whole new instance .... the other set will simply 'redirect the browser to a new page' .. and that is even based on exactly how you click it, for example, holding down the Shift key while clicking on it under IE will "open a new browser instance" ....

Options, Deleting and Moving Messages

Only option I see is: Display the "Empty Trash" link in the menubar? which would not be exactly what you are talking about.

When I first opened the beta webmail I noticed an inconsistency between which folder is displayed and which folder is identified in the box next to the "Open Folder" button. The folder displayed indicates "Held Mail", while the folder identified in the box next to the "Open Folder" button is "Inbox". In fact the contents displayed were that of "Inbox". It is easy to fix by merely forcing a selection through the use of the "Open Folder" button, but for the sake of minimizing confusion I thought I'd mention that the inital conditions can be a bit inconsistent.