You can check out the spam yourself at: Spamcop report
I added comments to my spam report which went like this:
QUOTE
While I am a <my ISP> customer, I have never opt-in'ed this email address for marketing email. If <my ISP> sent this to me as a customer, they didn't use my <my ISP> assigned email address registered with <my ISP> customer accounts and billing which is a completely different <my ISP> email address. If this is advertising from <my ISP> or their marketing department/advertisers, I suspect that they recently pulled in an email-marketing list in which this email addressed appeared, but for which the email list providers unscrupulously obtained their email addresses. I believe there will be no proof that I subscribed with this email address.
Recently, I have seen a sudden increase of spam coming to this email address. I suspect the email [sic] has finally been peddled into a higher marketing email list and will soon be inundated with spam.
I'm not sure why I've removed personal information since there appears to be personal information all over the spam headers, but I figured that it was the "right" thing to do, however futile.Recently, I have seen a sudden increase of spam coming to this email address. I suspect the email [sic] has finally been peddled into a higher marketing email list and will soon be inundated with spam.
I received an email at my unadvertised ISP email address that was advertising my ISP's services. At first I wasn't going to report it because I thought that it might be just a service announcement from my ISP, but it wasn't sent to my ISP assigned email address, which is where I receive all email from my ISP. Instead, it was sent to an email address that I created when I joined. I've never given the email address out and only occasionally (like maybe once a year) I get something that's like spam.
I did some nslookups and some whois lookups to see if the IP address was associated with my ISP. I had a hard time linking the IP address to my ISP, so I started thinking that this may be from some advertiser that they hired to spam for them. The funny thing was the email came from a domain that was like <my ISP>info.com or something.
Anyway, I tossed the thought around in my head (yeah, it's pretty empty up there) and I decided to report it and low and behold my ISP responded with some email asking me for more information saying that they were going to get to the bottom of this and investigate. Here is the email asking for my participation. The names have been changed to protect the guilty.
QUOTE
This is <his name> from <my ISP>! Internet, Cable and Phone Abuse Department. I received your SpamCop complaint regarding a spam message that originated from <my ISP>!. I spoke with our marketing department, and they reassured me that they do not message people’s alternate emails unless they opt-in.
I would like to work with you and see exactly how this issue has come up. Can you please send me the email address that this spam message was sent to, and also send me your <ISP>.com email address? From there, we will investigate the issue.
Sincerely,
<his name>
<my ISP>! Security Engineer
So, I'm an idiot and I responded to them using my real email address at my ISP and thinking that his is really interested in figuring this out. I'm an idiot on three counts.I would like to work with you and see exactly how this issue has come up. Can you please send me the email address that this spam message was sent to, and also send me your <ISP>.com email address? From there, we will investigate the issue.
Sincerely,
<his name>
<my ISP>! Security Engineer
- I'm thinking that they are going to do something.
- I sent email using my unadvertised ISP email account.
- My email address is all over the headers because the marketing department tears it apart and uses it in the header for bounces. Why did he ask me for my email in the first place? If spamcop sends him a link to the message, then he already had all the information he needed.
This is his response:
QUOTE
Mr. <my name>,
When it comes to email advertisements coming from <my ISP>!, we send them to all <my ISP>.com and <another domain they own>.com domains. Every email has a link to opt-out of receiving additional marketing emails. I’m not sure why you haven’t seen them on your <my email address> account. However, we have not sent out many emails recently. If you created that account fairly recently, you may not have received one yet.
If you do decide to opt-out your <my email address>, keep in mind that this only affects marketing emails. Any changes to policies, issues or problems will still be emailed to the account.
If you have any other questions, feel free to email me back.
Sincerely,
<his name>
<my ISP>! Security Engineer
Now his first email asking for my cooperation in his investigation told me in no uncertain terms that the marketing department doesn't spam anyone that hasn't opt'd in. I know he read my response because he says that the marketing department doesn't send spam to "alternate" email accounts. He obviously knows that the email account that I'm reporting is an "alternate" account and not my "main", "ISP assigned" email address. His response tells me that they spam their own customers until they opt out, which is a violation of their own terms of use.When it comes to email advertisements coming from <my ISP>!, we send them to all <my ISP>.com and <another domain they own>.com domains. Every email has a link to opt-out of receiving additional marketing emails. I’m not sure why you haven’t seen them on your <my email address> account. However, we have not sent out many emails recently. If you created that account fairly recently, you may not have received one yet.
If you do decide to opt-out your <my email address>, keep in mind that this only affects marketing emails. Any changes to policies, issues or problems will still be emailed to the account.
If you have any other questions, feel free to email me back.
Sincerely,
<his name>
<my ISP>! Security Engineer
Sounds like a We just make the rules, we don't have to follow them kind of operation to me.
Anyway, I sent him this response.
QUOTE
Dear <his name>,
Are you continuing to investigate this issue or is this the end of your investigation?
I have had my <email> account since I became a <ISP> customer, which I think was either the summer of 2001 or 2002. The only <ISP> advertisements, policy changes, issues or problem emails that I've ever gotten have always gone to my <ISP assigned email> account which is the account that was given to me by <ISP>. All other accounts (except one) were changed to different email addresses. I haven't received any advertisements from <ISP> on any of my other email logins at <ISP> except the <ISP assigned> address. I have reported some advertisements that I've gotten on the <unadvertised email> account to spamcop, but they weren't from <ISP>. The reason that I report advertisements on my <unadvertised email> account is that I never use that account to subscribe to any email or "opt-in" lists. So any advertisements that come to the <unadvertised email> account are unsolicited. This is why I mentioned in my response that I was hesitant to report this advertisement. This last sentence doesn't make sense here, but I think I was thinking that I shouldn't report it because it was reporting new services or something.
I don't believe that I have ever reported <ISP> marketing emails that come to the <ISP assigned> account and I wouldn't report <ISP> policy, issues or other problems that are emailed to me on any email account I have with <ISP> since they are not advertisements. I can't remember now, but i may have opt'd out of marketing emails for the <ISP assigned> account.
Since I've never received any marketing email from <ISP> on any of my email accounts except the <ISP assigned email> account, I've never had to opt-in or opt-out those other email accounts.
I do have a few questions though.
Does the <ISP> marketing department send marketing email advertisements to anyone other than their <ISP> or <other ISP domain> customers? If so, where does the marketing department obtain those email addresses? Are they sure that those email addresses are valid "opt-in" addresses or are they just generated email addresses or scanned email addresses? It's common for unscrupulous businesses to build email databases by generating email addresses or using a website entry form that does no checking or validation that the holder of the email account even wants advertisement email. They can then sell those addresses to others as "opt-in" lists. Is the marketing department sure they haven't gotten email addresses from those kinds of lists?
If the marketing department sends <ISP> email advertisements to all users on both <ISP> and <other ISP domain> domains, why didn't I get five copies of the advertisement (one for each email account that I have)? Maybe marketing sends only one email per customer, but I'm still very suspicious that the email address came from an invalid "opt-in" email list. If I "opt-out" of the <ISP> marketing distribution list for one email address, then does that mean that marketing will just choose the next email address in the customer's list of five email addresses that have not been opt'd-out?
Does <ISP> keep a list of email addresses that have opt'd out and when they opt'd out? If so, have you checked to see if I have opt'd out the <ISP assigned> email address or any of my <ISP> email addresses?
Doesn't including and using the <ISP> customer email list to send marketing advertisements mean that <ISP> does use distribution lists that include people who have not given their permission to be included in such a distribution process? It's a violation for customer's to do that, but is that okay for <ISP> marketing?
I still feel that reporting the <ISP> email advertisement was the right thing to do since I didn't "opt-in" to advertisements on that account.
Thank you.
<my name>
I guess I'm wondering if I did the right thing to report it or if I should have just deleted it. I think I'm a little too miffed about this to be objective.Are you continuing to investigate this issue or is this the end of your investigation?
I have had my <email> account since I became a <ISP> customer, which I think was either the summer of 2001 or 2002. The only <ISP> advertisements, policy changes, issues or problem emails that I've ever gotten have always gone to my <ISP assigned email> account which is the account that was given to me by <ISP>. All other accounts (except one) were changed to different email addresses. I haven't received any advertisements from <ISP> on any of my other email logins at <ISP> except the <ISP assigned> address. I have reported some advertisements that I've gotten on the <unadvertised email> account to spamcop, but they weren't from <ISP>. The reason that I report advertisements on my <unadvertised email> account is that I never use that account to subscribe to any email or "opt-in" lists. So any advertisements that come to the <unadvertised email> account are unsolicited. This is why I mentioned in my response that I was hesitant to report this advertisement. This last sentence doesn't make sense here, but I think I was thinking that I shouldn't report it because it was reporting new services or something.
I don't believe that I have ever reported <ISP> marketing emails that come to the <ISP assigned> account and I wouldn't report <ISP> policy, issues or other problems that are emailed to me on any email account I have with <ISP> since they are not advertisements. I can't remember now, but i may have opt'd out of marketing emails for the <ISP assigned> account.
Since I've never received any marketing email from <ISP> on any of my email accounts except the <ISP assigned email> account, I've never had to opt-in or opt-out those other email accounts.
I do have a few questions though.
Does the <ISP> marketing department send marketing email advertisements to anyone other than their <ISP> or <other ISP domain> customers? If so, where does the marketing department obtain those email addresses? Are they sure that those email addresses are valid "opt-in" addresses or are they just generated email addresses or scanned email addresses? It's common for unscrupulous businesses to build email databases by generating email addresses or using a website entry form that does no checking or validation that the holder of the email account even wants advertisement email. They can then sell those addresses to others as "opt-in" lists. Is the marketing department sure they haven't gotten email addresses from those kinds of lists?
If the marketing department sends <ISP> email advertisements to all users on both <ISP> and <other ISP domain> domains, why didn't I get five copies of the advertisement (one for each email account that I have)? Maybe marketing sends only one email per customer, but I'm still very suspicious that the email address came from an invalid "opt-in" email list. If I "opt-out" of the <ISP> marketing distribution list for one email address, then does that mean that marketing will just choose the next email address in the customer's list of five email addresses that have not been opt'd-out?
Does <ISP> keep a list of email addresses that have opt'd out and when they opt'd out? If so, have you checked to see if I have opt'd out the <ISP assigned> email address or any of my <ISP> email addresses?
Doesn't including and using the <ISP> customer email list to send marketing advertisements mean that <ISP> does use distribution lists that include people who have not given their permission to be included in such a distribution process? It's a violation for customer's to do that, but is that okay for <ISP> marketing?
I still feel that reporting the <ISP> email advertisement was the right thing to do since I didn't "opt-in" to advertisements on that account.
Thank you.
<my name>
If they aren't spamming, then why did they setup a different domain that isn't linked (or at least I couldn't see that it was linked) to their own domain? Why don't they send the "opt-in" and "valid" emails from their own domain? Seems fishy to me.
What is your opinion?
