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Posts posted by tooangry

  1. In a technical field, it is very important to use the correct terminology or the correct things don't get fixed.

    In my experience with many different levels of expertise, most people these days, even my parents, understand that they need to check their "Held Mail", "spam Folder", "Junk Email", etc due to the actions of spammers.

    Perhaps you need a more sophisticated server software that does allow for individual targets. There are many available. You can also disable any blocklists that you do not agree with their rules for listing.

    As far as your "does not like" definition, it may be sufficient for a very low level discussion of the topic with someone. It is not sufficient when discussing an issue with delivery of email. "Spamcop has detected a large percentage of spam coming from that server and listed it" is generally more accurate.

    Yes, if you have a spamcop email account, then spamcop can divert a message from a listed server to the Held Mail folder. Other than that, spamcop can not physically interact with any email transmission. The receiving server asks spamcop if a specific address is listed. SpamCop answers with a yes or no. The receiving server then makes a decision as to what it wants to do with that message.

    It is up to senders of messages to ensure their servers are being maintained properly so their messages can be delivered. If your provider is not able to supply an account that is not affected by blocklists, it is up to you whether you want to keep supporting that provider. I have changed providers about 6 times in the last 15 years, most of the time changing because of the service I was being given.

  2. I have accounts with my ISP, I have Yahoo accounts, I have HotMail accounts, I have GMail accounts, I have Sneakemail accounts, I have HyperSend accounts, I have accounts associated with web-sites I support

    So you have half a dozen or more email accounts. How much wasted time and trouble is that?

    Personally I would rather push delete a few times to get rid of spam than have to manage that number of accounts. I realise that I'm in a minority here, of course.

    Given that basically no-one here has come up with a suggestion for a reliable email service, I have to wonder about the frequent advice given to posters here complaining about their emails being blocked to change their ISPs to ones less friendly to spam. It will make no difference - they will still get blocked.

  3. I never said to find another ISP. I said find another mail provider. Your connection to the internet need not have anything to do with who handles your email. I use the spamcop email service, gmail, and yahoo, none of which are my ISP.

    I tried a while ago to get any suggestions from the people here about a reliable mail service that was unlikely to get listed by SpamCop. I received no help.

    Your saying that you use Gmail and Yahoo - both of which are regularly listed as we know - and SpamCop's own service. If that is the best that you, as a regular and experienced poster here, can do? If so, can I basically assume that the only way to be sure of not being listed by SpamCop is to use the SpamCop email service? There is something a bit unpleasant about that idea.

  4. ...No one here can answer that question. Please refer to the announcement listed at the top of the Forum main page labeled "Announcement: How To Get Official SpamCop.Net Customer Support." Thanks!

    My question was addressed to dbiel, a Spamcop moderator, who expressed the opinion that this type of foreign language support is unlikely. I was just asking him why he thought that - given how relatively trivial the work and expense involved would be.

  5. You have a valid point.

    I personally do not see much hope in that kind of change actually happening, but would agree that it is a concept worth considering.

    Why is it so unlikely to occur?

    Since most of the IP addresses on the block list are presuambly from non-US, and indeed non-English-speaking locations it seems an excellent idea to try to communicate in their own language.

    How many standard messages are there? Half a dozen, I guess. To be translated into:

    Traditional Chinese

    Simplified Chinese





    My guess is that would deal with 95% of listed IP addresses. Can anyone confirm? Have I underestimated central/eastern Europe?

    A professional translation agency could deal with all those in a day or two for a cost of a few thousand dollars.

    What's the problem?

  6. "This site best viewed with anything but IE."

    What UTTER BUNK!

    Can we PLEASE get that REMOVED?

    Can I second that please?

    IE may not be the perfect browser, but it is used by a huge number of people, many of whom have no choice (corporate IT policy), or accept the minor limitations because most sites ARE optimised for IE.

    Personally I prefer Mozilla, but can't use it because some sites I have to use professionally don't work with it.

    I agree that this sort of comment looks very unprofessional. If you want Spamcop to be more widely used then it needs to become more, not less professional.

  7. I must admit, that after reading all your critiques of so many posters and what has been provided as intended help, I feel a bit let down. Probably my fault, but I really had higher expectations when I saw that you did take me up on joining in and contributing to this Topic. Maybe you were just pressed for time?? For example, you mention a "better FAQ" but don't actually say whether what I've got hacked up for an outline is even close to getting your approval.

    Sorry, I was too busy to give everything the time it needs immediately - I just replied about one thing that I noticed and that I felt strongly about.

    I try and post some more later, but in the meantime I do think that the structure for the FAQ is looking a lot better.

    I think that there it should add a section on "what is Spamcop and how does it work?". I know most of the information is available elsewhere on the site, but I think that the aim should be to use the FAQ to make life easy for those coming to this site for the first time. That means including some basic information about what a blocklist is and how is is (or should be) used, how it is compiled, and about what an IP address is.

    Then the questions need to be divided into two main groups (as you have in the draft):

    1. for those who are accused of spamming themselves, with the technical information about the likely hacks, advice on running a secure server, a responsible mailing list etc. This should include "what is a spamtrap?", with the deputies email address.

    2. for those who are the "innocent bystanders", explaining why they are blocked even though it is other users of their ISP that are causing the problems. There should be a "what can I do?" section with advice on using webmail as an immediate way of communicating, and on complaining to your ISP.

    Somewhere there needs to be some guidance on reading your bounce report, and on using the IP address to find out what the story is about your problem.

    I'll have another look through later.

  8. Even with a small number of forums/fora there is an ambiguity of where to go for what question and it is likely that amiguity will only increase with the number of separate topics.

    The Help forum has more threads than all the other forums put together, so it's hardly surprising that newcomers find it hard to locate the information they need. I agree strongly (and have proposed in the past) that there needs to be a seperate Help forum for people who have been blocked.

    If the feeling is that there are too many forums then merge the two email forums and/or the two testing forums.

    The general forum confusion will anyway be greatly reduced if the number of pinned topics is reduced through a better FAQ.

  9. I think that Ozziegiraffe's posts have highlighted two issues that need careful consideration. I have started a new thread in order not to distract attention in his original thread away from ways to deal with his immediate problems.

    First, there are many places where there are a very limited choice of ISPs. The Solomon Islands may be an extreme, with one ISP with a legal monopoly, but many places have, for reasons of government policy, geography or local economic conditions, far fewer choices than the USA. The choice may be even more limited in practice if you need a high quality broadband service.

    The usual advice given on these boards to people whose ISPs are having their IP addresses listed by Spamcop is to try to persuade the ISP to change its ways (clearly proposed by those who have never had to deal with a government-run telecoms company) or to change their ISP (something which in many parts of the world is a complicated, expensive, and time-consuming activity even if it is possible).

    When it comes to the Solomons ISP the first of these suggestions is likely to be pointless, the second not possible.

    Can I suggest that in this instance the perminant removal of the Soloman Islands IP adddress from the blocklist is unlikely to damage materially the fight against spam.

    Secondly, we have again had the situation where a new arrival is given a very hard time by regulars on the boards. As I have said many times before, this is not an approach that will win Spamcop friends. I am aware that you are volunteers, and I know that there is a lot of information provided on the site that in an ideal world people would read and digest before posting. In practice, however, you have to understand that many people coming to this site are not experts in Internet computing. Also the site is very hard to navigate, and newcomers can easily miss much of the available information. When this happens brief, polite posts providing the relevent links are the most useful approach.

  10. if you want to send mail without being blocked, then send it from an ISP that does what mine did (and what Earthlink does) -- invest in procedures to stop spam from going out, and stop looking the other way while taking dirty money from spammers.

    Now how about some helpful advice given that he has already said that there is only one ISP providing service in his area, so changing is not an option.

    If you don't have any useful advice, then you might at least try to show some sympathy for his situation.

  11. (FirstAmendment99 [at] May 27 2004, 03:00 PM)

    How many replies to this forum state:

    "I don't know if I'm receiving spam from optin or Scott Richter..."

    So, you're going to hop on the Anti spam Bandwagon without proof that you have a legitimate reason to be on board?

    Email is like television...yeah, I don't want to see all the advertisements, yet they run them anyway...I have a choice...I can turn off the TV, leave the room, whatever...I don't sue the station, I don't file complaints about the commercials I don't like or didn't want to see...I just deal with it.

    Doesn't this country have more important things to worry about than having to hit the delete button a few extra times? People overseas are being be-headed with dull knives, the presidential election is coming up, unemployment is soaring...

    I bought a spam filter and started focusing my energy on subjects with more merit than a few unwanted emails. 

    Another spanked spammer speaks more nonsense.

    They know so little and the know it so fluently.

    Must be a full moon coming, the trolls are getting restless.

    Trolls are very dirty creatures, they defecate where they feed so if you feed the troll you must clean up after it.

    Please do not feed this troll.

    Is this, or is this not, a moderated forum?

    What is the reason to abuse someone making their first post just because they disagree with you?

    I actually disagree with much of what he has to say too, but I can accept that his argument is defensible.

    I'm glad that there are people prepared to put time and energy into fighting spam. I'm also glad that there are those who have other things at the top of their list of priorities.

    What I see no reason for is laying into someone just because they don't feel as strongy about this as you do.

  12. there comes that time that some would say "just screw it" ...

    That implies the odd person getting fed up.

    Since SpamCop started counting, this system has been reported about 440 times by about 220 users

    That implies a lot of people, not getting too much spam from this source (an average of two reports each), who just can't be bothered to use the appropriate channels.

  13. You are wrongly assuming that what was reported was opt in newsgroup content. It is more likely that it was penis enlargement pills, breast enlargement or mortgage quotes from a compromized IP, contents which fall in the usual spam categories, and which I assume you dislike to the same extent as us all.

    If the message was straight spam then, again, it should go to the Yahoo abuse system, which I have always found responsive.

    Blocking the whole system is a very blunt instrument. I think you just find it hard to accept that there is a situation where Spamcop is not the appropriate tool.

    And I still think that trying to close down the Yahoo groups system will make you more enemies than friends.

  14. If the Spamcop reporters of Yahoo group messages have not subscribed to the groups sending the messages, then those messages either

    1. fall within the 50 per day allowed by Yahoo rules, or

    2. represent an abuse by the group moderator.

    If the first, then a request to be dropped from the list is likely to be honoured.

    If the second, then use Yahoo's abuse procedures. That is likely to be a far more effective way to deal with the issue than trying to get the whole system blocked by Spamcop for a few days.

    Faulty unsubscribe links are surely not sufficient for the message to be reported as spam. There is a system in place to deal with that. Even Spamcop has its share of technical glitches.

    Yes, in a system the size of Yahoo's there will always be the odd person who abuses it, but that's not a reason to try close the system down. Nor is getting it on blocklists the most effective way either of pushing Yahoo to police their system effectively or of winning converts to the Spamcop approach.

  15. Let's make sure I understand this.

    Spamcop reporters have been reporting as spam messages that they have received through Yahoo groups to which they have opted in.

    If they feel that the material they are receiving is spam they have the option of reporting it to Yahoo and relying on them to deal with the issue.

    If that is not sufficient they can unsubscribe from the Yahoo groups generating the dubious messages.

    Instead, they report them as spam to Spamcop, with the result that even the well-run Yahoo groups are blocked.

    If this is correct it seems to me to be a drastic over-reaction, and one that is bound to agravate a lot of Yahoo group subscribers.

    Those people have opted to receive the messages from particular groups. If they object to the content of those messages (whether because of the volume of spam, or because they no longer have interest in the topic) they can unsubscribe (and please don't tell me that Yahoo will not process their unsubscribe requests).

    This is a clear example of an instance where the peripheral damage done by Spamcop in terms of blocking of messages which are actually wanted is out of all proportion to the benefits, since it is easy enough to cut off the supply of spam from that source by unsubscribing.

    The Spancop reporting guidelines should prohibit the reporting of any messages from a group to which the reporter has opted in.

  16. Maybe it's because giving personal information to netk00ks isn't considered to be a brilliant idea?

    That's fine if you're running a blog. It doesn't work if you're running a company that has thousands of users, and which affects millions more.

  17. I don't know of any responsible company that provides no phone numbers, no mailing address, and not even a company e-mail address. There is no contact page on the web site.

    www.comcast.net maybe? I don't know, I can't get near their website - they're apparently not interested in people with "out of date" browsers and 28.8k modems ;-) If only their "clients" were similarly inclined!

    But on www.comcast.com they provide you with all the contact information you could ever need.

  18. No-one will admit to being in charge.

    Just the other day Julian told a US District Judge (as well as anyone who bothers to read the statement) that he ran SpamCop's day-to-day operations. Kinda exposes you as a liar, no?

    Kinda exposes me as someone who can't understand why, if he'll tell the Judge, he won't own up on the web site?

  19. (tooangry [at] May 16 2004, 09:34 PM)

    There are no phone numbers.

    Technically, yes there are, however not quite openly published.

    I don't know of any responsible company that provides no phone numbers, no mailing address, and not even a company e-mail address. There is no contact page on the web site.


    No-one will admit to being in charge.

    Julian does the coding and reporting sude, JT handles the e-mail side, there are Deputies that handle some of the special issues, Don does many things to include account management, and I (and though not seen for a while) JeffG have volunteered time to handle Moderating duties here in this web-based Forum, and there are many more volunteering souls over in the newsgroups. What more do you need for identification purposes?

    How about an "About Us" page that identifies who is (not "seems to be") responsible for different issues, and provides contact information for them.

    As I have said before, I find it frightening that a company that provides a service used by so many ISPs and other businesses has to rely on volunteers, over whose language and approach there seems to be at best limited control.


    E-mails to the parent company go unanswered.

    At this point, I believe that most of what the "parent" company does at this point is provide hosting and physical support for the reporting machines on the west coast. JT provides this support for the e-mail systems on the east coast. And once again, Julian is the guy that does the code for the majority of the reporting system.

    Most parent companies take at least some degree of respobsibility for their subsidiaries. They do, after all, claim their profits. No response, even to refer me to someone in Spamcop itself, is unimpressive.

    Welcome to Spamcop.

    Yep, some of us are doing just fine.

    And who gives a damn about the rest?

  20. Does it mean that up to now you have NOT agreed with me?

    Not always! Although your responses are always clear and courteous, which as you wil gather I value highly. And on this occasion I think you're spot on.

  21. I never thought I'd be saying this, but I agree with nearly all of what Miss Betsy (sorry for getting your name wrong before) has to say. (I favour the web forums, but that is very much a personal preference, rather than anything fundamental.)