Does Enabling Reverse DNS increase SPAM Complaints

[nova]

Hi Guys,

My first post here.

Now i have a optin list that i send out a weekly newsletter to.

The list is double optin and only those people who specifically sign up are sent this mail and they can unsubscribe at any time. Its all automated.

I recently felt paying money for a autoresponder was actually a waste and i decided to run the list from my own webspace using a software called autoresponse plus.

I signed up for hosting and noticed that some domains dont accept the mail for delivery and return the message.

"This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its

recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

xxxx[at]vsnl.com

SMTP error from remote mailer after MAIL FROM:<xxxx[at]thedomain.com>

SIZE=5711:

host mx3.vsnl.net [203.200.xxx.xxx]: 550 5.1.8 invalid/host-not-in-DNS return

address not allowed"

I have removed the address portions for privacy and added "xxxx" in their palce

Now at first i thought that the ip address might be blacklisted and so i tried it out here at spamcop and found that the domain is not blocked, but rather that the reverse dns is not enabled.

I then came to realise that a lot of domains dont accpet mail for delivery if the reverse dns is not enabled.

When i wrote to my webhost his reply was this:

I can add an RDNS to your server if you want, but we purposely have some servers with without RDNS because your spam complaints will increase with an RDNS,.  More email will go thru, but you’ll get more flames.  Most clients prefer to not risk spam complaints.  These days it only takes about 2 complaints for you to lose your account.  Some web hosts terminate you after one complaint.  I watch how much mail goes thru and how much doesn’t and what doesn’t go thru is minimal.

When i asked him how specifically RDNS would increase my spam complaints this was his reply

Servers with RDNS enabled just get thru their itineraries more often thru the more difficult networks.  When your emails (including double-opted in autoresponders) make their way thru those relays that are more stringent on what they accept, you will, statistically receive more spam complaints.  Not just because more email gets thru, but because of the kind of places it is getting thru to.

For example, since AOL is the MOST stringent in receiving outside emails (they now filter almost 100% of emails that come from privately owned domains being hosted on smaller company servers), So, if you DO get thru to AOL with your domain it can be good news that your email got thru and Bad news that it got thru to an ISP that allows people to accuse you of spam at the click of a button.. When this happens, you are guilty of spamming no matter what “proof” or argument you present.

On the other hand…some of the more lenient and smaller ISP’s do not require an RDNS to receive email traffic and hence, have less stricter policies.

It’s all a numbers game that is bigger than any one person or one web hosting company.  The bottom line is, if you are going to use the technology of email for business (and I have since Feb or 1996)…you need to have other options, alternatives and work-arounds for communicating with your audience.  Email is NOT fail-safe nor is it as reliable as conventional forms of communication.

Also, an RDNS is simply a very basic and crude security mechanism.  Some servers want you to have one to get thru – some don’t.  I have done both for many years and the affect has been minimal.  I still operate my business 100% with the use of email communication

AOL says they require ALL email that comes thru to have an RDNS…then they still filter it if someone clicks the “spam” button – whether you have an RDNS or not.

It’s not fair – it’s no fun.  It’s the way the Internet works, and while it is still in it’s infancy – people figure out ways around it.

.

Sorry if this post was kinda long, but what i really need to know is

1) Does Enabling Reverse DNS for my domain incraese my chances of a spam complaint? and if yes how so?

2) Any idea how many providers require RDNS enabled to accept mail for delivery

Thanks

Nova

[turetzsr]

Hi, Nova,

Hi Guys,

My first post here.

...Glad you made your way here -- welcome!

<snip>

I can add an RDNS to your server if you want, but we purposely have some servers with without RDNS because your spam complaints will increase with an RDNS,.  More email will go thru, but you’ll get more flames.  Most clients prefer to not risk spam complaints.  These days it only takes about 2 complaints for you to lose your account.  Some web hosts terminate you after one complaint.  I watch how much mail goes thru and how much doesn’t and what doesn’t go thru is minimal.

When i asked him how specifically RDNS would increase my spam complaints this was his reply

Servers with RDNS enabled just get thru their itineraries more often thru the more difficult networks.  When your emails (including double-opted in autoresponders) make their way thru those relays that are more stringent on what they accept, you will, statistically receive more spam complaints.  Not just because more email gets thru, but because of the kind of places it is getting thru to.

...Well, I guess (from what I understand - take this with a grain of salt because I'm no expert) I would have to concede this. But I consider the argument roughly analogous to saying that because having a credit card makes it statistically more likely that I'll be a victim of fraud, not just because I can engage in more retail transactions but because of the types of transactions I am able to perform (for example, purchasing products via the Internet), that I am therefore better off restricting myself to face-to-face cash transactions.

For example' date=' since AOL is the MOST stringent in receiving outside emails (they now filter almost 100% of emails that come from privately owned domains being hosted on smaller company servers), So, if you DO get thru to AOL with your domain it can be good news that your email got thru and Bad news that it got thru to an ISP that allows people to accuse you of spam at the click of a button.. When this happens, you are guilty of spamming no matter what “proof” or argument you present.[/quote']

...This may be true of some spam blocklists but not of SpamCop (from what I understand). SpamCop's formula is a function of, among other things, the number of spam reports vs the total number of e-mails going through an IP address. Thus, since a high volume of e-mail flows through AOL IP addresses, it takes more than just a spam report or two for the IP address of a large-volume provider like AOL to get one of its IP addresses on SpamCop's BL.

On the other hand…some of the more lenient and smaller ISP’s do not require an RDNS to receive email traffic and hence, have less stricter policies.

It’s all a numbers game that is bigger than any one person or one web hosting company.  The bottom line is, if you are going to use the technology of email for business (and I have since Feb or 1996)…you need to have other options, alternatives and work-arounds for communicating with your audience.  Email is NOT fail-safe nor is it as reliable as conventional forms of communication.

...This is something I have seen a lot from others I trust, so I advocate this, as well.

Also, an RDNS is simply a very basic and crude security mechanism.  Some servers want you to have one to get thru – some don’t.  I have done both for many years and the affect has been minimal.  I still operate my business 100% with the use of email communication

AOL says they require ALL email that comes thru to have an RDNS…then they still filter it if someone clicks the “spam” button – whether you have an RDNS or not.

It’s not fair – it’s no fun.  It’s the way the Internet works, and while it is still in it’s infancy – people figure out ways around it.

.

...This point I don't understand -- I don't see what requiring an rDNS and also being reported for spam have to do with each other. (S)he seems to be arguing that if an IP address passes an rDNS test that therefore it should not be subject to being reported for spamming. I don't see how that follows. From what I understand, most spam gets sent through servers that have been "cracked" by breaking of weak security and/ or installation of trojans or the like. That can happen equally to servers that pass rDNS and those that don't.

Sorry if this post was kinda long

...Not at all -- I think it was well worth it!

, but what i really need to know is

1) Does Enabling Reverse DNS for my domain incraese my chances of a spam complaint? and if yes how so?

2) Any idea how many providers require RDNS enabled to accept mail for delivery

Thanks

Nova

...Sorry, don't have the foggiest as to your question #2.

[Wazoo]

I can't work with the IP you didn't provide ... so try this .. go to http://www.moensted.dk/spam and input the IP you didn't want to show ... what I'm looking for is that you'll see the returned list of several DNSBL's that will also offer up the reasoning behind the inclusion of "your" IP address ... You'll see some that don't like the lack of rDNS, others that don't like an IP within a "dial up" pool, others that basically don't the color of your hair <g> ... These are only lists put together by someone using "their" criteria, but the number of ISPs in the world that use any / all / some of these lists is totally an unknown.

That registering and configuring your e-mail server correctly will automatically lead to increased spam is actually a bit funny .. but that's just my opinion. Your ISP obviously has theirs ....

[Miss Betsy]

I have no experience with web hosting, but IMHO, any hosting company who advises you to do things incorrectly is one that you want to avoid.

aol causes all kinds of problems for people with their myopic views. I don't know how much you want to fight with them - if what the hosting company says is true: that someone on your list may forget and mark your emails as spam. It happens all the time. There was a long thread about someone who had a list that people *paid* to receive, who reported it as spam.

IMHO, you need to know more about the software you are using and the web hosts you are using in order to make a good decision.

Also, read the pinned FAQ in the help forum on Mailhosts to make sure you understand all the ins and outs of mailing lists.

Miss Betsy

[WB8TYW]

What the translation of the ISP is saying:

"they do not want you to run a mail server, and if you do, and they get any spam complaints, they will terminate you immediately with out review of the merit."

Please do not use "Double Opt In". That is a term that is used mainly by spammers to indicate that they have been able to send an e-mail twice to an address and their spam is still accepted by the mail server, and they have reason to think that a spam filter is not automatically deleting the message.

The term you want for a mailing list is "Confirmed OPT-IN".

I would not consider running any mailing list or other mission critical web operation with out the knowning that the ISP I was paying would fully support the operation. And also that the ISP would not allow the abuse of another customer to cause my accessed to be blocked in any way.

-John

Personal Opinion Only