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Errors Encountered - no longer considered a Reporting Help Topic

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Sorry but I am new here

For some time I have been reporting various Spams forwarded as attachments

Recently all my reports are coming back "errors encountered'

I have pasted the content below and have deleted my email address for security purposes.

I would be grateful for any assistance

regards

Peter

SpamCop encountered errors while saving spam for processing:

SpamCop could not find your spam message in this email:

Return-Path: <mates[at]xxx.net.au>

Received: from sc-smtp6-inbound.soma.ironport.com (sc-smtp6-inbound.soma.ironport.com [204.15.82.72])

by prod-sc-app4.soma.ironport.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3387D867B8F

for <submit.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[at]spam.spamcop.net>; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 15:24:01 -0700 (PDT)

X-Fozzie-Original-To: submit.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[at]spam.spamcop.net

X-Fozzie-Original-To: submit.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[at]spam.spamcop.net

Received: from mail06.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.187])

by vmx2.spamcop.net with ESMTP; 15 Apr 2010 15:23:59 -0700

Received: from [192.168.0.3] (c220-239-230-111.artrmn3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.230.111])

(authenticated sender directus)

by mail06.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o3FMNumu009831

for <submit.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[at]spam.spamcop.net>; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:23:56 +1000

Message-ID: <4BC791F9.5020109[at]xxx.net.au>

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:23:53 +1000

From: mates[at]xxx.net.au

Reply-To: mates[at]xxx.net.au

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.4

MIME-Version: 1.0

To: spam Cop <submit.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[at]spam.spamcop.net>

Subject: Fwd: Miss Susan HERBERT

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

boundary="------------020905050707090805000109"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------020905050707090805000109

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1251; format=flowed

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Miss Susan HERBERT

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 21:44:08 -0000

From: Miss HERBERT Susan<ksanadu[at]km.ru>

Reply-To: <vxl123[at]westci.net>

To: undisclosed-recipients:;

Hello,

[spam snipped].

Regards,

Miss Susan Herbert

[edit - submit address munged. It was however 'out there' for 3 hours. Peter, you'd best write to service[at]admin.spamcop.net and ask for another to replace the one you have. Snipped out the spam.]

This post has been edited by Farelf: Apr 16 2010, 10:04 AM

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Sorry but I am new here

For some time I have been reporting various Spams forwarded as attachments

Recently all my reports are coming back "errors encountered'

I have pasted the content below and have deleted my email address for security purposes.

I would be grateful for any assistance

regards

Peter

SpamCop encountered errors while saving spam for processing:

SpamCop could not find your spam message in this email:

PLEASE DELETE YOUR "CONTENT"

It does not contain any spam headers?

It does contain your super secret unique login "name" that SpamCop has given you

For some reason the attachment you send only contains body of message?

The attachment ("send as attachment" must contain headers) you need to tell us what email program you are using

http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/19.html

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...

For some reason the attachment you send only contains body of message?

The attachment ("send as attachment" must contain headers) you need to tell us what email program you are using

http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/19.html

User-agent line on submitted example says Thunderbird/3.0.4. IIUC forward as attachment is the default but may be affected by settings accessed under composition -> general which is (apparently) a different menu location for that inline or attachment setting to that of earlier versions. What SC gets has to look like the 'page source' seen when selecting the (unopened) spam and pressing Ctrl-U (as noted if you follow petzl's link) but it gets that from an attachment - not from an inline forward which omits most of the headers.

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In addition to the previous issues;

Sorry but I am new here

Joined: 16-October 08 Hardly seems "new" ... plenty of time to have spent at least a few minutes looking around, checking things out.

For some time I have been reporting various Spams forwarded as attachments

Recently all my reports are coming back "errors encountered'

Finding it hard to correlate the question with where you chose to make your Post'

SpamCop Email System & Accounts

A forum for questions and discussion about the SpamCop Email System and spamcop.net email accounts. Questions about spam reporting should generally be directed to the appropriate forum, not this one.

I have pasted the content below and have deleted my email address for security purposes.

To what end? You've ignored all the How to Post a Good question ... hints, tips, links, etc. You provided none of the data actually needed to try to sort anything out. You say your issue is with "Forwarding:" your submittals, but chose to only Post the contents of the spam itself.

I would be grateful for any assistance.

Moving this Topic to the Reporting Help Forum section, but not too hopefull about a successful resolution based on the lack of data provided. PM not sent, based on pretending that the user can remember/find where his/her query was originally Posted and can follow the supplied redirection link.

Just noting, two folks jumped on the "Report this Post" option to point out the problem with the Posted content, one member used Moderator powers to edit that Post. two users did take the time to Reply to the Topic. and I stopped working on several other things so as to make it here and try to handle things. Not a very good introduction, I must say. Yes, you can consider this "dumping on a user" .... but please don't ignore that the initial Post started with a whopper of a lie.

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Firstly let me thank those who replied offering assistance. By new meant that I have not posted previously and lack the confidence in using the system. I understood that this forum was for users to assist other users and I apologize if by my own ignorance that I have not posted in accordance with the correct protocol.

The information forwarded was that returned by SC and I assumed that that information would be that required to resole the issue of errors encountered.

Thank you for your warm welcome you have made my day.

As a mentally and physically disabled person I hope you are proud of your response as it for me has been quite distressful and humiliating.

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I hope you are proud of your response as it for me has been quite distressful and humiliating.
Please accept my apologies for the incredibly rude reception you received here. I assure you that the behavior you have witnessed is NOT condoned by the SpamCop staff!

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

- service[at]admin.spamcop.net -

.

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Firstly let me thank those who replied offering assistance.

And yet, nothing indicated that the data provided, liks suggested, etc. actually meant anything to you. No additional data provided to fill in the missing data from your Topic-starting Post.

By new meant that I have not posted previously and lack the confidence in using the system. I understood that this forum was for users to assist other users and I apologize if by my own ignorance that I have not posted in accordance with the correct protocol.

"Making your first Post" was a given .... but those weren't the words you decided to use.

As noted, there are a number of folks willing to jump in and help, but you have to do the initial work and provide enough data for those folks to work with. You making assumptions does not help at all, especially when you're willing to note your inexperience and lack of knowledge. Again, that's why the the links were put into place that you had to scroll by/ignore before making your first Post. Selecting the wrong Forum section just expanded the concept that you didn't take the time to look around first.

The information forwarded was that returned by SC and I assumed that that information would be that required to resole the issue of errors encountered.

Assume all you want, but the issue boils down to just what/how you tried to submit the data ..... the stuff desxcribed in several How to ask a Good Question... links .. tools used, steps taken, processes involved, etc., etc. You have still not provided any of that data.

Thank you for your warm welcome you have made my day.

You are more than welcome.

As a mentally and physically disabled person I hope you are proud of your response as it for me has been quite distressful and humiliating.

Not sure what comparing notes on disabilities will accomplish. There are those of us already here with their own issues and disabilites, supporting other folks with issues and disabilities, so not much new there.

Offering a bad analogy .. what you did here was akin to making a medical appointment, making yur way to the building, but decifing to use thw waiting room of the lawyer down the hall. The receptionist there took heed of your comment that "you felt sick" and called the doctor's office, then handed the phone to you. Then when asked questions about just what you needed, you decided to sit there and repeat "you felt sick." The doctor's office sent a nurse/orderly down the hall with a wheelchair, loaded you up, and carted you down to the doctor's office. At which time, you stuck with your story that "you felt sick." After getting not getting a diagnosis that you were happy with, you decided to make a call to the town's mayor to complain about the shoddy conditions of the building you had just left.

Exactly how do you determine who was rude, caused the most stress, or was the most unhelpful in an exchange like that?

The original/official FAQ has been referenced already. Due to complaints about that FAQ, a single-page-much-expanded version was created here, in addition, a Dictionary, Glossary, Wiki, and additional search functions were added to possibly end up with no need to post a question at all, as it has already been discussed, defined, explained, and/or resolved. You've not mentioned taking advantage of any of this already existing data.

You suggest that things 'used to work' then didn't work, but make no mention of the possible activities/actions that may have occurred at your end .... new software, updated versions, additional tools added, on and on ...

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The user has contacted me directly.

I will handle his problem so he won't have to come here for more abuse.

There will be an end to the abusive behavior one way or another. It is up to you to decide how.

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

- service[at]admin.spamcop.net -

.

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...

I will handle his problem so he won't have to come here for more abuse. ...

I suspect I already provided the answer (re-configure ThunderBird to forward as an attachment again) along with a hint about the simple diagnostic to check what the requisite full headers look like - but I guess I will never know ...

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<snip>

There will be an end to the abusive behavior one way or another. It is up to you to decide how.

...Sorry for continuing this off-topic side conversation but I am left with little choice due to choices by others. IMHO, your comment requires a reply, for the benefit of those who have not seen other occasions of your disapproval and reactions thereto.

...Don, your willingness to take on the OP's problem offline is appreciated. Seriously not appreciated is your (not necessarily you, personally, but SpamCop staff's, in general) continued unwillingness to take over administration of this Forum or establishing an alternative, official SpamCop help forum (using any technology, not necessarily a web-based online Forum such as we have here) but attempting to direct tone and content here. Until SpamCop does so, those of us who are here, day-to-day, trying to help our fellow SpamCop users, will reply as we see fit. Those who don't like it can ignore it and they can find help some other way, such as contacting you directly.

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will reply as we see fit. Those who don't like it can ignore it and they can find help some other way...
Well... you really gave it to me there. I've been put in my place for sure this time.

It's been over 12 hours since you posted that, and I don't see any disclaimers, so I will assume all the other volunteers think the same way you do, which is that rude and abusive behavior is OK.

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

.

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It's been over 12 hours since you posted that, and I don't see any disclaimers, so I will assume

Assume anything you like. The primary issue is that most folks are trying to stick with keeping the off-topic garbage out of this Help Topic/Forum section. To try to enforce that same concept, another rarity occurs .. Topic is being flagged as "Closed" .... Please take your complaints to a more appropriate place.

Moderator edit:

Link to the continued discussion in the lounge: Continuation of 'Errors Encountered' Conversation

Link to the continued discussion in the restricted forum (limited access): x

Admin edit: things have changed yet again. 'Closed' flag removed, Topic moved to the Lounge area, Title changed a bit to reflect that actual reality of the Discussion change from Help to Rant. Yet another Topic merged into this one.

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<snip>

I don't see any disclaimers, so I will assume all the other volunteers think the same way you do, which is that rude and abusive behavior is OK.

...Well, thanks, Don, for making sure everyone understands what I think (as distinguished from what I wrote).

Moderator edit: this topic has also been posted in a less public and restricted forum. x so do not be supprised if there few replies to this specific post, it is not being ignore, it is simply being discussed in the restricted forum.

Link back to the original topic that has been closed and the reason why the post now appears here: Errors Encountered

Admin Edit: Due to actions, words, thoughts, requests from all sorts of other directions, things have changed once again. This 'new' Topic has now been merged into the original Topic, as the original Discussion and situation has removed the Help definition. The original Topic has thus ben moved into the Lounge area, based on the 'rant' scenario ... title was changed a bit, and the 'Closed' flag has been removed.

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...Well, thanks, Don, for making sure everyone understands what I think (as distinguished from what I wrote).
What you wrote is what made me infer that you think that the rude and abusive behaviour I see in these forums is OK.

If I'm wrong, I would be more than happy to have you correct me by stating your position in Plain English.

Do you think rude and abusive behaviour in these forums is OK?

- Don -

.

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What you wrote is what made me infer that you think that the rude and abusive behaviour I see in these forums is OK.

If I'm wrong, I would be more than happy to have you correct me by stating your position in Plain English.

Do you think rude and abusive behaviour in these forums is OK?

...Well, I believe that what I originally wrote was plain enough 1 but I have no objection to answering your question directly: no, I do not believe that rude and abusive behavior in these forums, or anywhere else, is okay.

...Which is largely beside the point. If you wish to point out what you believe to be rude and abusive behavior, I have no objection to that. I only ask that it be done in a manner that does not distract from attempts to resolve a user's question or issue -- that is, in a private communication or a post in a different topic in an appropriate Forum.

...Finally, as to the "rude and abusive behavior" you allege, I'll also say that I distinguish between what might be considered rude and abusive for its own sake versus an attempt to help a user by eliciting clarification and/ or additional information that will allow those able to help to better do so. "You're an idiot, please give us such-and-such specific information so we can help you" is, IMHO, a better reply than no reply at all! I recognize that others might not agree and I'm okay with that but those who disagree have no more rights here than anyone else unless they are willing to take over the administration of this Forum, in which case they will then have the right to determine what replies are acceptable and what replies are not.

1What I originally wrote did not address what type of reply is acceptable, it only stated reality: contributors will post what they will. Neither you nor I will control that. The only people who have control over what will appear here is Forum owner JT and, by his delegation of Forum administrator rights, Wazoo.

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My first draft got lost when my browser crashed, so will try again.

Don has made an art form out of jumping to conclusion based solely on his on biased reading of what was or was not posted. None of the senior member here will attack Wazoo in public as we all highly respect him and greatly appreaciate all that he has done and continues to do to maintain these forums and other tools including the Wiki. Does he some times go a bit too far, yes. But at the same time we understand his frustration which has been compounded by the total lack of support received from any official source.

The failure of any SpamCop staff members to provide even the slightest amount of support for those unpaid individuals providing support in the user based tools is unbelievable and totally unacceptable. The sad state of the official FAQ can be seen in the following post: SpamCop doesn't like users?

And when help is implied or stated see:

I asked Richard to look into what happened to FAQ 289. This all appears to be fairly sudden. It was there recently.

- Don -

follow through is non existant as nearly two months have passed and the situation remains the same Follow the links: http://www.spamcop.net/help.shtml - Popular FAQs include:

"SpamCop mail service" and that link takes you to http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/289.html that contains no FAQ information at all.

Then consider the following two replies to a request for help - link to topic I work for an ISP and all reporting about our IPs have stopped

but no response from anyone in over a day
I'm still thinking.

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

.

and
Hopefully someone will get back to me so we can continue to remove customers who are spamming through our network.

I am always skeptical when someone asserts that they must receive reports or they will have no idea which of their clients is spamming. Do you have an AOL/Yahoo/MSN FBL set up? Do you accept reports to abuse[at] Do your customers contract with someone like Return Path to monitor their SWIP'd space? Do you not get summary reports? Why not try acting on those sources first and then asking for SC reports?

How does this differ from: "Please read the FAQ first and then post your question" Something Don has called being rude countless times" Using Don's definition of rude, one would have no choice but to label Kelly Molloy's post as being rude. But then, that is only based on Don's definition. The rest of us would NOT view Kelly's post as being rude.

Well I have wasted enough time, so will bring this to a close for now.

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The sad state of the official FAQ can be seen in the following post: SpamCop doesn't like users?

And when help is implied or stated see:

I asked Richard to look into what happened to FAQ 289. This all appears to be fairly sudden. It was there recently.

- Don -

follow through is non existant as nearly two months have passed and the situation remains the same Follow the links: http://www.spamcop.net/help.shtml - Popular FAQs include:

"SpamCop mail service" and that link takes you to http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/289.html that contains no FAQ information at all.

In all fairness, Richard was contacted. Conversation with Richard about several 'official' FAQ issues resulted in me volunteering to help out there also, pointing out that I had been one of the most vocal about this FAQ's issues over these many years. Results thus far were that a couple of FAQ pages had been brought back from death. However, this specific page has issues that I need to attack from a different angle. However, permissions asked for have not been responded to, and the 'official' take on the situation was offered as Don't let Wazoo anywhere near the FAQ!! So, that effort came to a standstill. Just wanting to note that the stated action did in fact happen and attempts were made to correct the situation.

How does this differ from: "Please read the FAQ first and then post your question" Something Don has called being rude countless times" Using Don's definition of rude, one would have no choice but to label Kelly Molloy's post as being rude. But then, that is only based on Don's definition. The rest of us would NOT view Kelly's post as being rude.

For that 'other perspective' on things .... years ago, when I was active in the Microsoft support newsgroups, I did what Don states he does now ..... reply to queries with pre-packaged responses developed over time to answer those repeated questions. I burned out on that years ago, getting so damned tired of seeing the same basic question asked anywhere from 5 to 100 times a day, day after day, week after week, month after month ..... I simply quit. However, that's the basis on my focus on providing a FAQ, such that no one should have to do this rinse, repeat action over and over. The basic difference in philosophy at the moment would seem to boil down to the premise that Don gets paid for all that personal handholding, call it justifying his paycheck if nothing else, whereas folks here are all volunteering their time, effort, and knowledge. This makes a huge difference on the perspectives of many things, even including the perceived, suggested, interpretation of alleged rudeness in responses other than the "select answer #63 from my database" for the query. (For years, the thought of how wonderful having that database of pre-generated answers available for the incorporation into a FAQ [or of course, the more recent Wiki] has crossed my mind, yet ..... non-participation in that process has been the only 'official' response.)

In reference to the recent decisions/actions taken with the Topic (movement, merging, closing/opening, etc.) there's a bit of 'funny' involved. Words from an individual that has stated that he hates to say things in public in fear that his words would be used against him .. well, here we are again. As this Topic was started as a request for 'Help' then the off=topic stuff would seem to already be covered in the remarks; ... but as I have said many times before, if you're not going to answer the question, don't post. ..... so hard to read some of the Posts in question as "answers"

To repeat Dbiel's thoughts .... way too much wasted time here, with so many other things needing attention.

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I have read the posts in this topic at least 10 times and I fail to recognize anything posted by volunteers here as "rude" or "abusive."

Don has made an art form out of jumping to conclusion based solely on his on biased reading of what was or was not posted.

If that's art, it's not very good.

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I have read the posts in this topic at least 10 times and I fail to recognize anything posted by volunteers here as "rude" or "abusive."...
My thoughts entirely. The nearest thing to rude being

I will handle his problem so he won't have to come here for more abuse.

which 'neatly' tramples over petzl's and my attempts to help the O/P resolve the thing, free of any of the aggravation and hurt feelings that ensued, but, fair enough, SC Admin will always trump the attempts of mere volunteers, especially when admin action is required anyway (to issue a new submission address). But for Don to use his involvement as another opportunity to snipe at the forum admin ...? And to raise the expectation of further 'abuse' should the main thrust of resolution continue in the forum is not just dismissive, it is despicable. Sorry the O/P (Peter) was evidently distressed - he was entirely correct to express his objection to that, also to raise the matter of his disabilities if he wanted to declare those for special consideration but they were not a factor in the resolution of his problem to the extent that we can guess what that was.
...There will be an end to the abusive behavior one way or another. It is up to you to decide how. ...
Now that is the nearest thing to actual abuse in this topic but Don has no understanding of the word in the legal/industrial context and is accordingly chronically (and ironically) incapable of recognizing his repeated transgressions. Bullying is abuse Don.

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I have read the posts in this topic at least 10 times and I fail to recognize anything posted by volunteers here as "rude" or "abusive."

<snip>

...Then, IMHO, you recognized the answers for what they were rather than what you might think they were if you wanted to interpret them as rude or abusive. For example, I can see how the OP might have interpreted the following as such (although I, and apparently you, would not):
<snip>

Joined: 16-October 08 Hardly seems "new" ... plenty of time to have spent at least a few minutes looking around, checking things out.

Finding it hard to correlate the question with where you chose to make your Post'

SpamCop Email System & Accounts

A forum for questions and discussion about the SpamCop Email System and spamcop.net email accounts. Questions about spam reporting should generally be directed to the appropriate forum, not this one.

To what end? You've ignored all the How to Post a Good question ... hints, tips, links, etc. You provided none of the data actually needed to try to sort anything out. You say your issue is with "Forwarding:" your submittals, but chose to only Post the contents of the spam itself.
Yes, you can consider this "dumping on a user" .... but please don't ignore that the initial Post started with a whopper of a lie.

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