Naming Mail Hosts

[Maynard 0]

While registering a new mail host, I gave it a name which is not only incorrect, but totally misleading, and I want to change it.

So I deleted the host from my configuration; but that didn't take it out of the database, so when I went about the process again, the same IP/domain is still associated with the bogus name.

This is not a functional problem, but it's troubling, in part because the host is on my domain and doesn't serve mail to anybody else.

Otherwise, everything seems to be working fine; though I'm not having SpamCop retrieve anything.

And I think it's a good scheme to report to the system which delivered to me, regardless of the injection point.

[Wazoo 0]

Not sure what you're asking for. If you wanted someone to perhaps take a peek into the database, even go so far as to manually manipulate some contents, you might want to get around to maybe mentioning a few of the specific details.

One of the issues is that your input is not only "your" data, some of the specifics are merged into a bucket of "seen as trusted info" ... so it may be that your wrong data is already in the "big" database, so just trying to manipulate "your" data may or may not show up on your output/screen, as part of the database manipulation is looking back into the "already identified" section of the "main" database.

I've no inside knowledge here, but have no doubt that specifics of your query are needed for anyone to pursue any investigation.

[Ellen 0]

While registering a new mail host, I gave it a name which is not only incorrect, but totally misleading, and I want to change it.

So I deleted the host from my configuration; but that didn't take it out of the database, so when I went about the process again, the same IP/domain  is still associated with the bogus name.

This is not a functional problem, but it's troubling, in part because the host is on my domain and doesn't serve mail to anybody else.

Otherwise, everything seems to be working fine; though I'm not having SpamCop retrieve anything.

And I think it's a good scheme to report to the system which delivered to me, regardless of the injection point.

If you want to send the specific info to the address in my sig and include your registered SC email address, I'll take a look at it and see what I can do.

[nogin 0]

I agree 100% - there should be some easy way to rename the mailhosts, without having to delete and re-add them. Current mailhosts interface simply does not provide any way to rename mailhosts.

[Ellen 0]

I agree 100% - there should be some easy way to rename the mailhosts, without having to delete and re-add them. Current mailhosts interface simply does not provide any way to rename mailhosts.

We don't necessarily want you to rename mailhosts. As the knowledge gained with a mailhost entry is remembered by the system and populated to other user mailhosts we may have given a name to a mailhost and don't want it changed. Altho if there is a good reason to want to rename mh's I'm happy to listen to the reason.

For example we have a mh name for one of the big AV company's set of servers and it gets included for everyone who's ISP uses that servce, we need to keep that name as it is so that we recognize it when it comes up on a waiver or when we look at someone's parse and mh's.

[nogin 0]

I agree 100% - there should be some easy way to rename the mailhosts, without having to delete and re-add them. Current mailhosts interface simply does not provide any way to rename mailhosts.

We don't necessarily want you to rename mailhosts. As the knowledge gained with a mailhost entry is remembered by the system and populated to other user mailhosts we may have given a name to a mailhost and don't want it changed. Altho if there is a good reason to want to rename mh's I'm happy to listen to the reason.

Are you saying that the names I give to mailhosts somehow become global? E.g. If I named a university mailhost serving mail to my home machine "Home", and the entry was later coalesced with a bunch of other servers at my university, then now everybody who uses that mailhost will se it called "Home"???????

Also, right now I have two diggerent entries in my mailhost config named "Home" (because I did not quite understand the way it all works when I was first experimenting), shouldn;t I be able to rename one of them?

[StevenUnderwood 0]

Are you saying that the names I give to mailhosts somehow become global?

They are global as far as I know. And the names may change over time as I once had a mailhost named postini and a mailhost named DLS (which came automatically a few days after mailgosts were working). When I reconfigured while testing the new changes, all of the servers then showed up under DLS mailhost name even though I named it postini in my configuration. Since all of the servers from both groups were included in the new DLS group, I did not care what spamcop wanted to call it. It just seemed that the 2 groups had merged into one.

[nogin 0]

Are you saying that the names I give to mailhosts somehow become global?

They are global as far as I know.

This is really bad. Somebody with access to the DB ought to check how many mailhosts are named just "Home", "Work", or something like that. Such names could be informative for a specific user, but would obviously a very bad idea if used globally.

[turetzsr 0]

Are you saying that the names I give to mailhosts somehow become global?

They are global as far as I know.

This is really bad. Somebody with access to the DB ought to check how many mailhosts are named just "Home", "Work", or something like that. Such names could be informative for a specific user, but would obviously a very bad idea if used globally.

...As StevenUnderwood noted, (just above), the name can change.

...For more information on why they are global, I offer Pinned: Delays, Waivers, Explanations which reads, in part:

One thing to understand about this system (if you care) is that these mailhost configurations are *shared*. So that once I adapt mailhost X to use strange domains a b and c, anyone else on mailhost X should be recognized without anyone having to do anything special. So that's why you see things change in your own mailhost pages - as other users add more detail to those entries. Anyway, you can file that under "too much information" - nothing you need to be aware of as a user. Suffice it to say, it's designed to adapt to each provider's specific config, and provide an escalation proceedure (waiver request/auth) when the config can't be recognized automatically.

[a1ahost 0]

Hi,

I am seeing some very strange domain names appearing in my

Mailhosts list: such as,

Mailhost pair.net

shc.edu, alumni.shc.edu

Mailhost Spamcop

mail.ermann.org

I have my domain accounts hosted with Pair Networks, pair.net .

I also see numerous IP addresses in the lists that don't match anything

pair.net has. I am also having probelms with spam being passed through

when it has been marked as spam. Maybe because of this extra stuff

in my Mailhosts lists?? What should I do? I am conside4ring just deleting all

of the Mailhosts and backing out.

Thanks for any explanation,

Steve

slandon[at]spamcop.net

a1ahost[at]spamcop.net

[StevenUnderwood 0]

I am also having probelms with spam being passed through

when it has been marked as spam.

The mailhosts config does not have anything to do with spam passing through the filters. It is only for the reporting side.

Please post the headers of a sample marked spam that got through the headers to the email forum so someone can figure out why marked spam is getting through.

I am conside4ring just deleting all of the Mailhosts and backing out.

You are welcome to do that but according to the last update it seems that mailhosts is not going to be optional for much longer. I have seen no further update to override that opinion. You would probably be better off helping get the mailhosts working properly.

Are you seeing parses messed up because of these configuration "errors"?

[Ellen 0]

Hi,

  I am seeing some very strange domain names appearing in my

Mailhosts list: such as,

Mailhost pair.net

shc.edu, alumni.shc.edu

Mailhost Spamcop

mail.ermann.org

I have my domain accounts hosted with Pair Networks, pair.net .

I also see numerous IP addresses in the lists that don't match anything

pair.net has. I am also having probelms with spam being passed through

when it has been marked as spam. Maybe because of this extra stuff

in my Mailhosts lists?? What should I do? I am conside4ring just deleting all

of the Mailhosts and backing out.

Thanks for any explanation,

Steve

slandon[at]spamcop.net

a1ahost[at]spamcop.net

With respect to the hosts appearing in your mailhosts -- I see a1ahost also in my pair list as well as the shc.edu ones. I have a note to talk to Julian about this.

The spam thru the filters is because of the great number of brand shiney new compromised machines resulting from the last week or so of worms and trohans where those IPs haven't made it onto the blocklist or open proxy lists. One of my totally obscure domains has been under spammer dictionary attack for a few weeks resulting in 300 - 700 spams a day depending on how energetic the spammer is and Thurs or maybe it was Fri for the first time about 40 of those showed up in my inbox instead of held mail -- the spam only generated about a 2.6 or so on the SA scan and the injecting IPs were all new zombied machines.

I don't see any reason for you to remove your mailhosts but of course you can if you would like to altho it will become mandatory and also it really does help to isolate forged headers -- esp as the circular forgery spammer is back busy forging header.

[nogin 0]

...For more information on why they are global, I offer Pinned: Delays, Waivers, Explanations which reads, in part:

One thing to understand about this system (if you care) is that these mailhost configurations are *shared*. So that once I adapt mailhost X to use strange domains a b and c, anyone else on mailhost X should be recognized without anyone having to do anything special. So that's why you see things change in your own mailhost pages - as other users add more detail to those entries. Anyway, you can file that under "too much information" - nothing you need to be aware of as a user. Suffice it to say, it's designed to adapt to each provider's specific config, and provide an escalation proceedure (waiver request/auth) when the config can't be recognized automatically.

This is IMHO irrelevant. Yes, it makes a lot of sense to share the malihosts' objective data (e.g. hostnames, domains, IP addresses, etc). However, it makes absolutely no sense to share the names that are assigned by the users. In many cases users would pick names lick "School", "Work" or "Home" that would be completely useless (or even misleading) for others.

[Wazoo 0]

This is IMHO irrelevant. Yes, it makes a lot of sense to share the malihosts' objective data (e.g. hostnames, domains, IP addresses, etc). However, it makes absolutely no sense to share the names that are assigned by the users. In many cases users would pick names lick "School", "Work" or "Home" that would be completely useless (or even misleading) for others.

The point is now, you know of the issue of pulling names out of the air, so the question is, have you sent Ellen (deputies at admin.spamcop.net) the specific facts so she can look up your issue hosts? Whther you thin it's foolish or not, there's only the one guy doing the coding that knows what's being looked for, how it's handled and stored, and what how this data is used.

[Matty 0]

I've just setup the new Mailhosts system and added my two e-mail address.

My first acount is with Yahoo Mail and I gave the mail host the name "Yahoo", when I returned to the Mailhosts page the Mailhost name has been replaced with "BT".

I then added my fasthost account (for my own domain "131stmichaels.co.uk" and name this "fasthosts" on returning this has instead been named "mclusky.co.uk"

Neither of these reflect the mail host that has been set up?

Any ideas?

Cheers

Matty

[nogin 0]

The point is now, you know of the issue of pulling names out of the air, so the question is, have you sent Ellen (deputies at admin.spamcop.net) the specific facts so she can look up your issue hosts?

The "specific fact" is that the Mailhosts page does not have any "Rename" button next to "Mailhost name" field. I am not complaining about bad names of specific mailhosts, I am requesting an interface improvement.

[StevenUnderwood 0]

You are requesting to add complexity to a new system which is still being worked on. While this idea may make sense to add in the next revision, right now I think Julian is working hard to get it ready for everyone to use.

[StevenUnderwood 0]

I've just setup the new Mailhosts system and added my two e-mail address.

My first acount is with Yahoo Mail and I gave the mail host the name "Yahoo", when I returned to the Mailhosts page the Mailhost name has been replaced with "BT".

I then added my fasthost account (for my own domain "131stmichaels.co.uk" and name this "fasthosts" on returning this has instead been named "mclusky.co.uk"

Neither of these reflect the mail host that has been set up?

Any ideas?

Cheers

Matty 

What is the big problem here. That is just a name that will be used to indicate it is in your mailhost configuration. It is not going to change the way the system works.

All I care about the mailhost configuration is that it works to help make sure my ISP is not accidently listed because of an accidental report by me. It does that very well. They could name them after Star Trek characters for all I care. You will see these same name repeatedly and get used to whatever they are called.

[Wazoo 0]

I've just setup the new Mailhosts system and added my two e-mail address.

My first acount is with Yahoo Mail and I gave the mail host the name "Yahoo", when I returned to the Mailhosts page the Mailhost name has been replaced with "BT".

Perhaps due to the first user that happened to register the particular IP address match did the same thing as complained about, used BT for the name for whatever reason?

I then added my fasthost account (for my own domain "131stmichaels.co.uk" and name this "fasthosts" on returning this has instead been named "mclusky.co.uk"

Probably based on so many spammers using the same configuration, but changing those leading numbers on a daily (sometime hourly) basis, the code just drops these leading digits, going for the lowest common denominator??

Neither of these reflect the mail host that has been set up?

Why would you say that? If they are showing up in "your mail-host" list, one would think that they've been added, wouldn't one?

[Ellen 0]

I've just setup the new Mailhosts system and added my two e-mail address.

My first acount is with Yahoo Mail and I gave the mail host the name "Yahoo", when I returned to the Mailhosts page the Mailhost name has been replaced with "BT".

I then added my fasthost account (for my own domain "131stmichaels.co.uk" and name this "fasthosts" on returning this has instead been named "mclusky.co.uk"

Neither of these reflect the mail host that has been set up?

Any ideas?

Cheers

Matty 

Send me your registered SC email address and a short note about the issue to the email address in my sig and I will take a look at it.

[zachariah 0]

Sorry to just cut in without reading the whole thread, but I, too, notice that my mailhosts have "odd" names.

I deduced while adding them that they are named by the first user to add the hosts. The mailhosts really should get some more official names.

My specific example is that the mailhost named (in Spamcop) "Award" should really be named "Ventures Online" (or "Data393 / Huge Hosting / Ventures Online", since I cannot tell if the mailhost names just IPs/hosts from Ventures Online, or from the recently merged 3 companies).

background info:

Three Colorado Hosting Companies Merge Into One

January 13, 2004 -- (WEB HOST INDUSTRY REVIEW) -- Data393 (data393.com), Huge Hosting (hugehosting.com) and Ventures Online (venturesonline.com), three Web hosting companies based in Colorado, jointly announced a three-way merger on Tuesday.

[Wazoo 0]

Let's go back to the beginning .. please see and read http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1102 .. Pinned item from Julian himself ...

[Ellen 0]

Sorry to just cut in without reading the whole thread, but I, too, notice that my mailhosts have "odd" names. 

I deduced while adding them that they are named by the first user to add the hosts.  The mailhosts really should get some more official names. 

My specific example is that the mailhost named (in Spamcop) "Award" should really be named "Ventures Online" (or "Data393 / Huge Hosting / Ventures Online", since I cannot tell if the mailhost names just IPs/hosts from Ventures Online, or from the recently merged 3 companies).

background info:

Three Colorado Hosting Companies Merge Into One

January 13, 2004 -- (WEB HOST INDUSTRY REVIEW) -- Data393 (data393.com), Huge Hosting (hugehosting.com) and Ventures Online (venturesonline.com), three Web hosting companies based in Colorado, jointly announced a three-way merger on Tuesday.

Ok mail me all the grim details -- including your registered SC email address and I will see if the names should/can be changed ...

[nogin 0]

I see that the message on the "Add mailhost" page now reads:

What is the standard name of this email provider - for instance, hotmail.com might be referred to simply as "Hotmail"?

It is good that is states "standard", however it still seems a bit insufficient, especially since it goes shortly after

We will of course keep this address in strict confidence.

Therefore, I beleive it should be augmented to excplicitly state that the name could become visible to other people _and_ that the name should make sense to other people.

[Wazoo 0]

I won't argue your points. I'm still of the belief that the original invitation to the Mail-Host Beta was deliberately started here in the Forums to keep the sample small until things were worked out. That the cat was let out of the bag over in the newsgroups caused the avalanche that Julian's never caught up with ... again, just my opinion. The next level of xourse is that Julian knows exactly what he had in mind when he started this thing, and there's always been a bit of a generic expectation that users would have some general knowledge of what's what before jumping into things ... but that's always the divide between programmers and users <g>

On the other hand, thanks for noting that changes are occurring as we speak, and surely that should count for something <g>