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babylon

I cant receive mails, so whats the dispute between UPC and Spamcop?

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Hello,

Its a very long time since ive been here, but i do have a problem.

Starting today (at least for me) im not getting mails from my private email address. Thats a problem as i do run a business and i get mails on the private address also. But as you can understand...im not getting them now..

When i called UPC business today i was told that there was some kind of dispute and that "both parties" are trying to solve this somehow.

Sure i know how this works. A mailserver doesnt gets blacklisted for fun. But i do would like to know whats going on. I never send any spam, reported many times spam, but now im a victim of a dispute between UPC & Spamcop.

UPC said that both see things different, which doesnt say much..

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Hi, babylon,

...Sorry to hear of your problem. I'm afraid that no one here is likely to be able to be of much help to you unless we know what specific IP address seems to be on the blacklist. Do you have a rejection message you could post here? It is best to post the full, unedited rejection message, unless there's something there that can identify you, personally, in which case you can use something like "<elided content that could identify me>" in its place.

...In the meantime, some possible alternatives for your situation might be (no guarantees):

  • Contact (by phone or snail-mail or some other method than your e-mail) people to whom you are trying unsuccessfully to send e-mails and ask them to whitelist you.
  • Sign up for another e-mail service, such as Hotmail or Yahoo!Mail or GMail and use it to send your e-mails to contacts that you can't reach from your normal e-mail account until UPC can straighten out its problem with SpamCop (which will probably mean find and boot the spammer who are abusing their resources).

...Finally, you should be aware that e-mail is not now, never has been and likely never will be a guaranteed delivery mechanism, which situation might cause you some pause in deciding whether or not it is wise to continue to rely on it as your dominant means of communication with your important business contacts.

...Good luck!

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Hello,

If it helps..

I tried to mail the not working mail using a gmail account and it came back with:

The mail system
&lt;here was my email address&gt;host mx0.upcmail.net[213.46.255.200] said: 550 5.1.1
&lt;here was my email address&gt;inactive recipient rejected (in reply to RCPT TO command)

But weird thing is, that IP doesnt show blacklisted..

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<snip>

But weird thing is, that IP doesnt show blacklisted..

...Not only doesn't it show an IP being blacklisted, it doesn't say that any blacklist was involved! This leads to ask the question: is there something you haven't yet shared with us that leads you to think that SpamCop is somehow involved? :blink:

...And, now that I read your original post more carefully, do I understand correctly that it is your "private email address" provider that is stopping you from receiving e-mails? If so, the question then arises: who is blocking whom and using what mechanism?

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Yes, it was said by UPC that there is a problem and they said the bad party in this is Spamcop.

UPC even have a noticed posted on their website: (translated to english)

Failure UPC email service

As a result of a failure, you can not send e-mail at this time via the e-mail service from UPC. UPC is doing everything possible to solve this. Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience.

Start Time: 09-12-2013 08:00

UPC is my home internet provider yes, it comes with your own email address. Like you have in the usa whatever[at]aol.com

Thats what isnt working anymore...

I was just hoping someone would tell me what the disagrement is between UPC & Spamcop.

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<snip>

I was just hoping someone would tell me what the disagrement is between UPC & Spamcop.

...Ah, I see! Thanks for explaining. Unfortunately, with one exception ("SpamCop Admin," also known as Don D'Minion, a SpamCop employee), no one here would know that just from the information you've been able to provide (which I assume is pretty much everything that you know). You'd either have to get that information from UPC itself or by asking the SpamCop Deputies, whom you can reach via e-mail at deputies[at]admin.spamcop.net.

...Parenthetically, I would add that UPC seems to believe (or at least is leading you to believe) that SpamCop has more power than it actually has. SpamCop publishes a blacklist that is used by some admins to identify possible spam sources and some of them use the SpamCop blacklist to block incoming e-mails. There is no way (that I am aware) for either the SpamCop blacklist to be used to block all outgoing mail from a provider (except by an "upstream" provider, and that would make the "upstream" provider the "bad party") or for SpamCop to itself block all outgoing mail from a provider. Therefore, if you are accurately relating what UPC has told you (and I have absolutely no reason to doubt it!), I would think that they are misleading you. Further evidence for my conclusion is that in the message you've included from UPC's web site, they do not mention SpamCop -- they seem only to have mentioned it to you. I have to wonder why that is.... :blink:

...Good luck!

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The problem is that we don't know the IP address of the UPC server that is being blocked.

In any case, your service provider is refusing to accept email from any server that has been placed on our blocking list because it is sending spam to our system.

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

- Service[at]Admin.SpamCop.net -

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Looks like a handful of servers in upcmail.net have been in and out of the SCbl this month (maybe earlier too). The handful of reports seen should not have been enough to list such high-volume and generally "good" servers - I'm guessing there have been spamtrap hits as well. Those are virtually "sudden death". Anyway, those I can see recently listed (62.179.121.39, 62.179.121.40, 62.179.121.41, 62.179.121.42) don't seem to be listed any more. The several reports (per day) for these went to abuse[at]chello.at and the spam sources might have coincided with those for the spamtrap hits, which would have made UPC's job of hunting down and isolating the problem accounts easier presuming chello passed on the detail to UPC. Of course this may have nothing to do with your problem but those are major servers involved in UPC mail services so I'm guessing it is relevant.

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Suggest this be moved to the lounge as there is no evidence that either SpamCop or blocklists are in any way involved.

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Very true Derek, but I would like to leave it be in case there is resolution with some SCbl involvement. There is some real possibility of that. The provider has apparently said it is SC and I have seen that the huge outgoing upcmail.net/UPC.biz servers in Austria are intermittently timing in and out of the SCbl (above). Whether or not the O/P (in the Netherlands) has his mail routing through those is an unknown - it is hard for a user to know. But I note the non-delivery message he posted (from upcmail.net) was from an Austrian server.

He has (maybe) checked his own IP and notes it is unblocked (or maybe it was the upcmail.net one he checked) - anyway, if his IP address is the same one he is posting from, I can confirm that it is unlisted/hasn't been listed in recent times - it is on no RBL (except APEWS, which signifies nothing) and probably that (static) address has never messaged directly to the internet, or not for a very long time. I guess that UPC might be isolating users on trial basis to see if that affects their (supposed) spam trap hits.

More than a little tough on the O/P if that is the case but I guess such trials would not take long in the individual case. Sheer supposition, maybe way off-beam, but certainly something odd is happening and if it is yet another way providers handle SC reports and/or blocking then we will benefit by knowing. I think.

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