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CESmail System changes

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As you all are now aware, the CESmail email system is shutting down at 5PM Sept 30.

I'd like to try to clarify a few things; you may already be aware of most of these items but not everyone is:

1. CESmail email system and Spamcop spam reporting system are two separate entites. The reporting system is owned by Cisco and the email system is owned by CESmail. The systems run on on separate sets of hardware in different colos. They interface at the point of spam reporting - the 'report as spam' button in the webmail system and VER reporting where you can log into the reporting system and see your Held mail/spam and report it.

2. As of 5PM Sept 30, the CESmail servers will essentially be shutdown. Cisco will do forwarding of active spamcop.net/cesmail.net/cqmail.net email addresses to email addresses provided by users.

You need to provide that address by logging into webmail and clicking Options in the navbar and then under General/Spamcop tools select the first link. At that link, a few lines down the page, is an input box to put in the email address you want your mail forwarded to.

Do NOT put in that address until you are ready to stop using the webmail system/POPing with your email application/IMAPing. You will need to add an account/personality to your email application to POP or IMAP to the ISP/hosting company providing that new address. Make sure that you have correctly entered the servername and your name/pw into your email program for that new account by sending a couple of test mails to the new email account. Or if that new email account provides webmail then log into that webmail and make sure you can see the test mail(s).

Once you have this set-up, you can switch to it at any time by entering the new email address into your spamcop webmail account. You do not have to switch immediately.

If you have set up POP entries in your Spamcop account so that we are POPing your mail from outside sources, you will need to have your new email provider POP those entries or change those outside email addresses to forwarding instead.

3. Mail currently in your webmail account/Cesmail email space: you will need to move any mail in your account elsewhere if you want to keep it. There will be no access to those emails after the shutdown. If you POP your mail then those mails should already be on your computer.

If the number of mails is not large then forwarding each individually while time consuming is the easiest way to do it. You can also click Folders in the navbar and then select one or more folders and ask for them to be downloaded - either zipped or not. The download is in the standard MBOX format. There are MBOX reader programs/apps that you can use to read the MBOX files. There may also be a way to get Thunderbird to handle MBOX files.

4. VER/Held mail tab in the Reporting system - this will no longer work as the Held mail folder in your Spamcop email account will no longer exist.

5. SMTP - SMTP will also shut down. You will have to find another SMTP service if your tablet/smart phone etc cannot use your ISP/hosting company SMTP.

6. After the system shuts down you can still use your Spamcop email address as the From on your correspondence if you wish to do that. All mail sent to your spamcop/cesmail/cqmail email address will be forwarded to the new email address you will enter into your webmail account.

7. There is a thread here about other email hosting companies. We don't have any 'favorites' but some of the paid options do offer free trials and it might be worthwhile to try them and see if they are suitable for your personal needs.

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That was an informative post "email_support," thank you.

Cisco will do forwarding of active spamcop.net/cesmail.net/cqmail.net email addresses to email addresses provided by users.

This service will be no charge? Part of the fuel pricing? Limited offering, or in perpetuity? Only for individuals grandfathered in by having a %userName%[at]spamcop.net account, or will new users also have a virtual/forwarding account?

...Held mail folder in your Spamcop email account will no longer exist.

How is the user to check what has filtered to spam in the newly forward-only configuration? Will spam just be automatically sent to "Queue for reporting/Report spam" area of Spamcop.net?

Lastly, on so many minds: as you are aware, there have been no small amount of lengthy, painful outages this year with no channel provided for redress. Now the service is being shut down--and with many of us having recently renewed--there will need to be a process to petition for refunds. To whom should such a request be directed?

Thank you for so many previous years of stable email service.

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This service will be no charge? Part of the fuel pricing? Limited offering, or in perpetuity? Only for individuals grandfathered in by having a %userName%[at]spamcop.net account, or will new users also have a virtual/forwarding account?

How is the user to check what has filtered to spam in the newly forward-only configuration? Will spam just be automatically sent to "Queue for reporting/Report spam" area of Spamcop.net?

Lastly, on so many minds: as you are aware, there have been no small amount of lengthy, painful outages this year with no channel provided for redress. Now the service is being shut down--and with many of us having recently renewed--there will need to be a process to petition for refunds. To whom should such a request be directed?

Thank you for so many previous years of stable email service.

I am deeply disappointed in this decision as a long time supporter. My heart sank a little yesterday reading this message yesterday. I use SpamCop to collect all my other email accounts for a single collection point, to provide SMTP, and to provide many email addresses for various accounts, mostly the opposite of what I can now use it for.

I second the above questions, though I may/may not request a refund and simply let the account expire to try and catch/transfer the many accounts that I used spamcop for.

I will be using my ISP to collect my email from my various other accounts. I will continue to report my spam, possibly through a new free reporting account which will reset my reporting number from the current incorrect number from several years ago:

Welcome, Steven P. Underwood (Home).

Your average reporting time is: 6.3 days; Not bad.

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Now the service is being shut down--and with many of us having recently renewed--there will need to be a process to petition for refunds. To whom should such a request be directed?

The lack of mention of any refund process appears to be quite intentional. Unless something is announced by tomorrow, I'd recommend that everyone whose service should have extended past Sept. 30 file claims with PayPal ASAP.

DT

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From a past refund request I did receive this reply from Spamcop Support:

"Hi -- we do not give refunds past 60 days.

--

SpamCop Support

support-cases[at]spamcop.net

Please make sure you leave the case number in the subject every time you email us.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Currently my SC account expires in one week, not enough time to migrate to a new email service, so I'm forced into renewing for $30. But I do plan to cancel by September 30th and open a case with the cc company for a prorated refund.

SC ought to do the right thing here and give us a grace period to 9/30 to renew.

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Held mail folder in your Spamcop email account will no longer exist

I'm surprised as I thought it was the Inbox that was vanishing. How is one to control when legitimate emails are caught as spam? I assume the Held Mail tab at the reporting service will still have some functions?

( http://mailsc.spamcop.net/reportheld?action=heldlog )

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I'm surprised as I thought it was the Inbox that was vanishing. How is one to control when legitimate emails are caught as spam? I assume the Held Mail tab at the reporting service will still have some functions?

( http://mailsc.spamcop.net/reportheld?action=heldlog )

No one yet knows what this move will do

I always try to make my spam thoroughly reported

As such used my trash folder to forward to both CERT of the country that sent it as well as the abuse address given.

Not being able to send direct from a SpamCop email source that it was sent to creates "noise" to the dopey that look into it.

Most of those working to stop spamming are not the brightest crayons in the pack and find it easier to bitbin reports than do anything!

So for me if SpamCop email reporting becomes useless will dump the SpamCop address (spammers have won with the help of Cesmail"

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Let's hope we get a lot of clarification in the coming weeks. I've beefed up my Fastmail account just in case.....a great fallback, I hope ;-)

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As you all are now aware, the CESmail email system is shutting down at 5PM Sept 30.

I'd like to try to clarify a few things; you may already be aware of most of these items but not everyone is:

1. CESmail email system and Spamcop spam reporting system are two separate entites. The reporting system is owned by Cisco and the email system is owned by CESmail. The systems run on on separate sets of hardware in different colos. They interface at the point of spam reporting - the 'report as spam' button in the webmail system and VER reporting where you can log into the reporting system and see your Held mail/spam and report it.

2. As of 5PM Sept 30, the CESmail servers will essentially be shutdown. Cisco will do forwarding of active spamcop.net/cesmail.net/cqmail.net email addresses to email addresses provided by users.

You need to provide that address by logging into webmail and clicking Options in the navbar and then under General/Spamcop tools select the first link. At that link, a few lines down the page, is an input box to put in the email address you want your mail forwarded to.

Do NOT put in that address until you are ready to stop using the webmail system/POPing with your email application/IMAPing. You will need to add an account/personality to your email application to POP or IMAP to the ISP/hosting company providing that new address. Make sure that you have correctly entered the servername and your name/pw into your email program for that new account by sending a couple of test mails to the new email account. Or if that new email account provides webmail then log into that webmail and make sure you can see the test mail(s).

Once you have this set-up, you can switch to it at any time by entering the new email address into your spamcop webmail account. You do not have to switch immediately.

If you have set up POP entries in your Spamcop account so that we are POPing your mail from outside sources, you will need to have your new email provider POP those entries or change those outside email addresses to forwarding instead.

3. Mail currently in your webmail account/Cesmail email space: you will need to move any mail in your account elsewhere if you want to keep it. There will be no access to those emails after the shutdown. If you POP your mail then those mails should already be on your computer.

If the number of mails is not large then forwarding each individually while time consuming is the easiest way to do it. You can also click Folders in the navbar and then select one or more folders and ask for them to be downloaded - either zipped or not. The download is in the standard MBOX format. There are MBOX reader programs/apps that you can use to read the MBOX files. There may also be a way to get Thunderbird to handle MBOX files.

4. VER/Held mail tab in the Reporting system - this will no longer work as the Held mail folder in your Spamcop email account will no longer exist.

5. SMTP - SMTP will also shut down. You will have to find another SMTP service if your tablet/smart phone etc cannot use your ISP/hosting company SMTP.

6. After the system shuts down you can still use your Spamcop email address as the From on your correspondence if you wish to do that. All mail sent to your spamcop/cesmail/cqmail email address will be forwarded to the new email address you will enter into your webmail account.

7. There is a thread here about other email hosting companies. We don't have any 'favorites' but some of the paid options do offer free trials and it might be worthwhile to try them and see if they are suitable for your personal needs.

8. I have received the following information from Cisco regarding the forwarding and spam checking: email forwarded by Cisco will be spam checked using the Cisco Reputation system. You cannot opt out of the spam checking. There is no Held mail folder or equivalent.

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Please clarify the situation on refunds, Email_Support. Will there be any? At this official page:

http://mail.spamcop.net/pricing.php

it says:

"Refunds are cheerfully given upon request if you find that you can't use the system for some reason."

None of us will be using the system soon, as the system that we paid for will no longer exist, therefore, may we request refunds?

DT

Edited by DavidT

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Please clarify the situation on refunds, Email_Support. Will there be any? At this official page:

http://mail.spamcop.net/pricing.php

it says:

"Refunds are cheerfully given upon request if you find that you can't use the system for some reason."

None of us will be using the system soon, as the system that we paid for will no longer exist, therefore, may we request refunds?

DT

Not through a forum you can't as it's totally separate. Email service[at]cesmail.net with your user name etc.

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I don't care about the webmail access, POP3 or SMTP. But from what I can tell, this system will have no way to examine the quarantine because there won't be one.

So, it looks like there will be no way to look for false positives. No way to whitelist senders. No way to examine and report held mail. It will just be a simple forwarding service that can't be controlled. All of those are basic functions of a spam filtering service.

Basically, there is very little value left in the proposition of offer. And really I would expect a much longer notice period for a change of this type.

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Not through a forum you can't as it's totally separate. Email service[at]cesmail.net with your user name etc.

No, the forum is actually owned by the guy who owns/runs the email system--not all that separate at all. I sent an email to the "questions" address, which opened a ticket and he hasn't responded. He's clearly dodging questions about refunds. I'm thinking he might pull the plug on the forums as well.

DT

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...For what it's worth, I agree with DT's posing the question here, as most if not all "SpamCop" e-mail users are impacted and there may be a much better way of handling this than having every e-mail user contact Support via e-mail.

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...For what it's worth, I agree with DT's posing the question here, as most if not all "SpamCop" e-mail users are impacted and there may be a much better way of handling this than having every e-mail user contact Support via e-mail.

Well that email address is the one that appears on all Paypal payments to them. So obviously it's the one to use.

OK how about here: http://mail.spamcop.net/contact.php

Edited by Ex_Brit

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...Oh, I have no doubt that's the correct e-mail address. And the correct one to use -- if it made sense for this to be handled with e-mail exchanges with each and every "SpamCop" e-mail user. I'm just saying that the e-mail support people may be able to think of a better way and this Forum is the place to ask.

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No harm in asking ;-)

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8. I have received the following information from Cisco regarding the forwarding and spam checking: email forwarded by Cisco will be spam checked using the Cisco Reputation system. You cannot opt out of the spam checking. There is no Held mail folder or equivalent.

It remains unclear what happens to the emails trapped by Cisco Reputation system. Are they forwarded in a separate folder? If not, and they are just deleted, that creates a major risk of losing legitimate mail.

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We need clarification of this soon so we can make plans. If they have a 60-day limit on refunds then I need that kind of info now. not the day before it happens.

I still have no idea how any legit mail caught by the spam filters is going to be handled.

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The exquisitely uninformative wording as well as the Saturday night massacre timing of this announcement suggest that either it was a poorly thought out last minute decision or a take-the-money-and-run scam.

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Basically, there is very little value left in the proposition of offer. And really I would expect a much longer notice period for a change of this type.

I don't wish to come off as boorish or hostile, but I'm not sure everyone here appreciates the current situation
  1. CESmail as a service is on death's bed. If that wasn't already apparent after the service troubles we've had over the past year, then last week's should make it clear.
  2. Though it's not clear whether the shutdown is CES's call or Cisco's, the shutdown is a complex matter for both parties because there's more to Spamcop than just the paid email. Spamcop email addresses are also used by Cisco as part of operating the Spamcop RBL, so the shutdown impacts them as well. Even if the paid email service is going away, someone still needs to be operating Spamcop.net mail servers.

Based on comments from Support, Cisco, and the original announcement, what appears to be happening is that they're pulling the plug on all CESmail services entirely on the 30th. At which point Cisco updates the Spamcop.net MX records to point to their own servers, and they begin handling all Spamcop.net email. This is also why all Spamcop.net held email and reporting integration goes away, as those systems will no longer be in place.

While I don't think we should simply roll over and be happy with this, it's important to recognize that this is Cisco throwing us a bone here. Cisco clearly doesn't want to be in the paid email hosting business (which is why CES has run it all these years), but they're going to ease the transition for long-time users by doing mail forwarding so that we don't lose the use our Spamcop.net email addresses right away. The Cisco takeover isn't meant to be a replacement for the CESmail service, it's meant to offer a stop-gap solution for email address continuity.

If you're expecting anything more than that, then those are going to be unrealistic expectations. While it would certainly be nice to have a proper continuation of the Spamcop paid email service, that's clearly not in the cards. This forwarding system is the best we can realistically hope for.

I still have no idea how any legit mail caught by the spam filters is going to be handled.

You should plan for it to not be delivered. Since we'll be going through Cisco's email servers and won't have mailboxes to store held mail, Cisco will likely be dropping all held mail (otherwise Cisco would not be going out of their way to inform us that we can't opt out of their spam filtering). Edited by ViRGE

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The exquisitely uninformative wording as well as the Saturday night massacre timing of this announcement suggest that either it was a poorly thought out last minute decision or a take-the-money-and-run scam.

{sigh} not to mention an almost infinite number of other, perhaps more charitable, explanations. Has nobody else noticed how the reporting system was struggling on Saturday? Related? We'll probably never know but makes me, for one, wonder about straws and camel's backs and the unending attacks on the whole system which you can be sure have been happening.

As for "take-the-money-and-run scam" - really? After all these years of super-cheap subscriptions (matching the service with the economy IS proving a bit of a challenge when looking for alternatives, isn't it?).

People are hurt and lashing out is natural but "we" can achieve so much more once we get over that.

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People are hurt and lashing out is natural but "we" can achieve so much more once we get over that.

What exactly are you suggesting we achieve and how? NOT looking to pick a fight, but asking respectfully.

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It presents us with the opportunity to some kind of an online "goodbye" party for SpamCop Email, with clowns, balloons and a generally festive atmosphere.

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What exactly are you suggesting we achieve and how? NOT looking to pick a fight, but asking respectfully.

Share ideas, share information (here), find a way around/other solutions - certainly some more information from CESMail is needed too, to make the situation more clear, but some people probably have no idea how to make spam submissions other than through the mail interface - those too will need "our" help.

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