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DavidT

No refunds???

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Several of us have tried asking JT (aka "email_support") if there will be any refunds offered to any/all of the CES customers for the withdrawal of services that we have already paid for. So far, no answers have been forthcoming, but if any of you actually receive an official answer, please share it as a reply to this topic.

DT

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For what it's worth as someone who was needing to renew shortly before the retirement, CES gladly extended my account until past the service shutdown. So they are taking care of service issues quickly and making accommodations, at least for matters that are easily resolved.

Edited by ViRGE

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Virge - How did you make that happen? My account expires in 5 days. I'm wondering how to get it extended to 9/30. Thanks for any info.

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Virge - How did you make that happen? My account expires in 5 days. I'm wondering how to get it extended to 9/30. Thanks for any info.

I emailed questions[at]spamcop.net (the email address in the original announcement) asking for what they're advising customers to do in this situation and they got me sorted out. Edited by ViRGE

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Continuing the sub-discussion of renewals, I got an interesting email from one of the Spamcop deputies this evening. It looks like all current account holders should be getting extended.

I was told by them [CES] today that they have extended all accounts beyond September 30 so no accounts will expire between now and their planned shutdown. All accounts that exist today will still be there when they pass the forwarding file over to us.

I did ask them to make that fact known, but haven't seen if they have or not.

Nothing about refunds though (since that's all CES). At this point I'd just cross my fingers that CES has the funds to issue refunds in the first place...

Edited by ViRGE

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Nothing about refunds though (since that's all CES).

I think it's time for people to start contacting PayPal, especially those who have renewed recently. "email_support" has logged in here and has most likely seen the repeated questions about refunds and yet hasn't posted any responses. Questions about refunds have also been submitted to the "questions" address and have not been answered. Here's a link to the instructions about disputing transactions:

How to Dispute a Transaction

I'm not eligible to use PayPal's payment dispute process, as the transaction must be 45 days or less old. However, in that there are 109 days from Oct. 1 to my expiration date, and I have two accounts ($45/year) so I'm due a refund of approx. $13.44 for the loss of services. I suggest that those of you who are eligible to dispute your PayPal transactions begin to do so.

DT

Edited by DavidT

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OK I heard back from Support

I asked 2 questions:

Can you clarify what happens when legitimate mail gets labelled as spam

which does happen from time to time, will it be discarded or forwarded,

labelled as such?

Could you also advise, as I just renewed for a year, if I change my mind

can I obtain a refund and for how long after the payment date?

The answer:

I am awaiting clarification from Cisco as to whether mail classified as spam will be bounced or discarded.

I'm sorry but there are no refunds.

So I guess more to come.....??!!

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I sent an email on Wednesday informing Cesmail that I no longer needed my email account and please refund the unused balance. Got no response so I PM'd the same thing on Thursday. Got no response so I'm left to assume that Ces has just lost interest in pursuing this venture as a business or the coffers are dry (my suspicion).

Good luck to any the pursue the PayPal method of refund; mine was paid in March so I'm well outside their window.

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I also inquired after a refund (I renewed by sub back in May) and was also told that none would be provided.

I’m disappointed but not surprised. Fortunately I’m not out a great deal of money on the deal.

At least the folks who are approaching renewal may get a month or so of free service out of the deal, that’s something.

I’ve been using the service since it was first started, I’m sorry to see it go (although less sorry than I would have been a year or two back before all the strange outages).

Now on to figure out how the hell to untangle my mail chain.

— rick

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...

I'm sorry but there are no refunds. [says CESmail]

...

I'm imagining how a conversation like this would go over:

Company: Hello, this is your car leasing company. Sorry, we've decided to get out of the car leasing business. We'll be taking back your leased car in one month.

Customer: Well that's inconvenient, seeing as how I've paid in advance for a full year for a car I was depending on. So you'll be refunding the portion for what will be the 10 unused months, right?

Company: Oh sorry, no refunds. But we're sending you a bus pass that's good for a year!

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Well, at least in that case the customer was offered a bus pass. That's more than I stand to get here.

- rick

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Well, at least in that case the customer was offered a bus pass. That's more than I stand to get here.

- rick

Yes well, my point being that a bus pass is hardly an equivalent replacement for a paid-for car lease, much like a forwarding address is not the least bit equivalent to a paid-for hosted mailbox.

An example of equivalence would be; when someone pays for something, and that something is deliberately not delivered in full or refunded, that's pretty much equivalent to theft. Actually more like exactly the same thing.

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An example of equivalence would be; when someone pays for something, and that something is deliberately not delivered in full or refunded, that's pretty much equivalent to theft. Actually more like exactly the same thing.

You can sue in small claims but they may not have the money.

In _England Their England_ (recommended) there was a quote

"A subscription signifies that the magazine will be sent to the subscriber until one of the three expires"

Edited by michaelanglo

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I, too, received a (delayed) response when I inquired about a refund. Having just renewed two accounts mere days before this announcement, I turned to Paypal for resolution. First step was trying to "work with the seller". OK, no response from the seller after I questioned their "no refunds" reply, so I asked that it be escalated. Paypal gave CES until 9/1 for a response - NO response from CES by that date. Paypal have now resolved in my favor, and will be reversing the payment - "if" money is there to do so (and I seriously doubt it). Otherwise, the CES Paypal account will be frozen (and a empty, frozen lake is still just empty).

I know people get in over their heads sometimes financially, but what CES did - to take money when they had knowledge that they were shutting down - is criminal. The fact that Spamcop/Cisco allowed integration between them and CES shows some degree of culpability on their part. Sadly, I think the Spamcop reporting system is toast.

A 15+ year Spamcop Mail user until the bitter, bitter end.

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<snip>

Sadly, I think the Spamcop reporting system is toast.

<snip>

...Little chance of that, from what I can tell. The SpamCop reporting system's fortunes seem to me to be very much independent of those of the CES-provided e-mail service.

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Keep in mind that SpamCop reporting is CISCO.

There is no indication that there is a financial link between SpamCop and CES email services. IF there were a financial link, I don't think a "few" $30 email accounts would bring an end to SpamCop/Cisco

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I was lucky I paid by paypal & opened a complaint via paypal who have found in my favour ad have retrieve the full $30 from Corporate Email Services the spamcop webmail providers. Essentially they will not give you your money back unless you force them too.

DD

Dear David xxxxxxx

We have concluded our investigation into your case and have decided in your

favour.

You have indicated that a partial refund of $30.00 USD would be

satisfactory.

We were able to recover $30.00 USD, and this amount has been credited to

you. Please allow 5 working days for this adjustment to be posted.

If you are due any additional funds, we will make our best effort to

recover the balance from the seller.

If the seller's account has insufficient funds to complete the refund owed

to you, please be assured that we will take appropriate action against the

seller's account, which may include limitation of the seller's account

privileges.

-----------------------------------

Transaction Details

-----------------------------------

Seller's Name: Corporate Email Services

Seller's Email: paypal[at]cesmail.net

Seller's Transaction ID: xxxxxxxxxxx

Transaction Date: 3 Aug 2014

Transaction Amount: -$30.00 USD

Your Transaction ID: xxxxxxxxxxxx

Case Number: xxxxxxxxxxx

Buyer's Transaction ID: xxxxxxx

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I never got responses to my requests for refund, but this (below), posted last night on the SpamCop homepage, more than makes up for the economic value lost for me, in the long run.

Anyone who has a CESmail account at the time of shutdown on September 30 will continue to

enjoy the premium access to the SpamCop reporting service indefinitely without additional or

future charge.

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I just paid a year's subscription.

Who do I see about getting that refunded?

Edited by Farelf

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I just paid a year's subscription.

Who do I see about getting that refunded?

First, to be clear, you paid CESMail for a year of email services, correct? And by "just paid," the important thing is exactly *when* you did so, as it appears that the only course of action for refunds is to challenge the transaction with PayPal and obtain the refund directly from PayPal, as the owner/operator of CESMail isn't offering any refunds. PayPal's policy covers transactions made in the last 30 days.

DT

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Oh lovely--it appears that all posts made on the old forum this morning got "left behind" in the delayed switch to Cisco-controlled servers. There are a number of posts missing from this thread, and probably a number of other threads.

DT

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I'm seeing old posts now, but they appear to have the wrong time stamp on them.

Pretty sure some showing here were posted in the last couple of days, but they are stamped back August. Sigh. So ready to jump this shark.

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Refunds are cheerfully given upon request if you find that you can't use the system for some reason.

That's what the old system said, but it turned out to be a BIG FAT LIE!

DT

Edited by DavidT

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That's what the old system said, but it turned out to be a BIG FAT LIE!

DT

...It was (seemingly; I had no personal experience, but no one posted to the Forums complaining that their request for a refund was denied or ignored) true until CES reported the demise of "SpamCop" e-mail.

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