HillsCap Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Hi, all. Since Scott Richter is suing SpamCop to stop them from blocking his spam, I say it's time to strike back against this evil SOB, and protect the SpamCop service which has kept our Inboxes relatively unmolested for so long. Here's my plan: I want everyone interested in participating in a lawsuit against Richter to register their interest by posting to this thread. Then, we'll all compile our Richter spams, submit them to the FTC along with depositions, and have the FTC take Richter to court. There would be no cost to any of you except for the time required to fill out the deposition and print out the spam source code of each spam from Richter. The FTC will even pay for FedEx'ing the stuff back to them. I'm looking for at least 1,000 people, so let's all pitch in and bring this scumbag down. If you know of anyone using SpamCop who doesn't regularly frequent these forums, and they're interested in participating, let them know to come here to register their interest. After I've got the requisite number of people willing to fill out depositions, I'll get in touch with my contact at the FTC, and provide you all with the information necessary to send your depositions and spam printouts to her (contact name, address, FedEx shipping number, etc.). Let's get to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dra007 Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 As I said in the other thread, start a petition that feeds to a webside and spreads around as chain e-mail. Fastest way to reach many people. We can also send similar petitions to FDA and any government agency we can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralsky's Fatal Tumor Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 I want everyone interested in participating in a lawsuit against Richter to register their interest by posting to this thread. Done, done DONE! But I have two thoughts - First, I think that a lot of people will come here and think "I'm not going to register for an account on a forum just to post a 'me too!' message." A website would be a much better way to attract attention. Although, now that I think about it, why don't we just take a page from Snotty's playbook. Let's buy an email list from some spammers and make this a opt-out class action suit. Anybody who doesn't want to sue Snotty can just email us and be removed from the list. (Or should we make it a double-un-opt-out list, just to make sure we're operating ethically?) Second, how do we determine what's coming from Opt-In? I've never received an email that explicitly said it was coming from them. Are there other signs I should look for, or am I just the one person on the planet that Snotty doesn't know about? Either way, faster pussycat... kill! KILL! I want to be there to sow the ground with salt after they bulldoze Opt-In, just to make sure nothing grows there again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 When Paetec sued Monster Hut (and also the NY AG), they asked for affidavits. The request came in response to a report. I am not sure whether I have received any Scott Richter spam either. I don't keep my spam usually (though I have a bunch from someone else - just in case someone ever sues them!) Can't take the time now tp answer - but there must be a better way than chain emails! Miss Betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dra007 Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 I have enough webspace for a site dedicated to a petition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HillsCap Posted May 12, 2004 Author Share Posted May 12, 2004 OK, I've set up an email account at Yahoo specifically for this... StopSnottyScotty[at]yahoo.com dra007, I've got DreamweaverMX and I'm a whiz at HTML, so if you've got the space for a webpage, I can whip up a page with an explanation of what our goals are. Ralsky's Fatal Tumor, my thinking was that people would naturally be suspicious of leaving their email addresses with me (or with any of us, since they don't know us and don't know if they can trust us with their email addresses), so I figured "Who would they trust? Well, SpamCop itself!" So, I think we'd get a higher percentage of people signing up to register their interest here, rather than leaving their email address with any of us. If we can't gather at least 1000 people, then it's not really worth going to the FTC, as the damages that can be shown wouldn't be large enough to take Richter down for good. Once we get 1000 people, I'll give the contact details for my contact at the FTC, you all can either call or email her, she can send out the depositions and give you the FedEx shipping number. A website is a good idea, but we still need some means of communication between us and the people who are interested. Again, I don't think we'll get a large number of people giving out their email addresses, so that's why I went with this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Does anyone remember the movie, Miracle on 34th street? When Santa Clause was on trial the defense had the postoffice deliver sacks and sacks of postal mail addressed to Santa Clause to court which is what won the case and he was declaired the real Santa. What would happen if IronPort brought in sacks and sacks of postal mail sent to them with a hardcop of every single piece of spam Scotty Snooty sent them with a disclaimer saying it was never opted in for? I am talking millions of letters? What could the judge say then? Scotty is saying millions have asked for it but in reality millions would say they didn't. Sure would make a liar look like a liar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralsky's Fatal Tumor Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 I think we'd get a higher percentage of people signing up to register their interest here, rather than leaving their email address with any of us. Good point - I hadn't thought of it that way. Keep us up to date with any info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HillsCap Posted May 12, 2004 Author Share Posted May 12, 2004 Merlyn wrote: [What would happen if IronPort brought in sacks and sacks of postal mail sent to them with a hardcop of every single piece of spam Scotty Snooty sent them with a disclaimer saying it was never opted in for? I am talking millions of letters?] Exactly what I'm aiming for... except it won't be IronPort or SpamCop walking in with wheelbarrows of printed-out spam along with depositions, it'll be the Federal Trade Commission and the Federal Government. Now how can a judge argue with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Merlyn wrote: [What would happen if IronPort brought in sacks and sacks of postal mail sent to them with a hardcop of every single piece of spam Scotty Snooty sent them with a disclaimer saying it was never opted in for? I am talking millions of letters?] Exactly what I'm aiming for... except it won't be IronPort or SpamCop walking in with wheelbarrows of printed-out spam along with depositions, it'll be the Federal Trade Commission and the Federal Government. Now how can a judge argue with that? That would be good but I think the court of public opinion would work just as good, then the FTC could "borrow" that info and Scotty could then have some more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralsky's Fatal Tumor Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 HillsCap - have you considered submitting this as a story to Slashot? There are lots of sysadmins and spam-hating folks there who'd probably sign on in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turetzsr Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 ...Please see My reply to "Scott the spammer Richter". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Count me in. But how can I be sure some of my spam is from OptInRealBig? Ross Combs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckpint Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 I'd be very interested in helping. And just to test whether or not OptInRealBig honors opt-out, I just put a brand-new never used email address into their opt-out form. If I get any email at that address, I'll be taking that up with the FTC big time. I'll also post the spam here so people can identify it. The most common question being asked here is "how can I tell if the email came from OptInRealBig?". We all need to be sure the spam comes from them if we want any complaint to have any weight. Their page does have information to identify their servers. Chuck Pint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Their page does have information to identify their servers. Chuck Pint And you are going to believe a spammer? Remember rule #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmoe Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Sign me up too, but as has been previously asked, how can we tell which spam is from this group? It would be great to have a page of known-spam to compare against... perhaps the SpamCop folks can cobble something together quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kd3bj Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Sounds good to me. I'll help any way I can. I run an ISP and we estimate that we spend about $100 per customer per month for spam defense. I don't know what fraction is from any one particular spammer, but we could figure that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Sign me up too, but as has been previously asked, how can we tell which spam is from this group? It would be great to have a page of known-spam to compare against... perhaps the SpamCop folks can cobble something together quickly. You can always check the headers for the following IP's 69.6.0.0/18 69.6.64.0/20 69.15.83.16/28 206.165.164.128/26 66.179.100.178/32 66.179.100.128/25 66.179.17.160/27 66.45.41.136/29 66.45.41.192/32 66.45.80.80/29 206.161.120.64/26 66.129.88.100/31 66.129.88.100/30 65.168.54.0/23 80.77.34.128/25 65.60.16.10/32 69.6.21.0/24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billstewart Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Recognizing OptinRealBig spam It's pretty easy to recognize many of Scotty's canned meat products. Unlike many other spammers, Scotty pretends to be legitimate, and sends out mail from his domains and IP addresses when he can. <p> IP addresses 69.6.0.0/20 belong to Scotty, and if you read the lawsuit, you'll see Abovenet notifying Optigate that they refuse to accept route advertisements for those addresses because of the level of complaints. <p> Domain name moosq.com is also Scotty's - Most of the spam comes from machines named [some-number].moosq.com. It's usually in the From line. Most of the mail I've gotten from Scotty has at least one header line (I think it's the From:?) that has a long string encoding your user name (usually SHOUTING IN ALL CAPS) and probably some information about which spam this was) [at] [number].moosq.com . My spam logs used to get lots of mail from them, addressed to three of my email addresses (two of which I *never* use for the public, including one that's been dead for N years and clearly came from web harvesting.) I haven't checked the log lately, but there were dozens in the last two weeks. <p> OptinRealBig sometimes shows up in their email bodies, but I don't keep that in my log files so I don't know how often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zav Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Spamcop exists to free us from unwanted solicitation ala email. It protects us from fraudulent spam and repeated unwelcome solicitations. My email box is a private location which should be protected from people trying to push their interests and separate me from my money. I wish for NO commercial solicitations in my email box unless we have an agreement ahead of time that there is an interest for this. This does not mean that everyone in the world who wants to sell me something, award me my Nigerian millions, expand me penis OR breasts, refinance my house which I do not own, get me drugs that I do not need, etc, etc, etc can try to contact me through my email box to ask for this permission. Spamcop is all we've got to protect OUR interests and OUR email boxes from crooks, practicers of fraud, anyone who wants to sell anything, or flood OUR boxes with THEIR stuff. I conduct BUSINESS through my email. I TALK to my FRIENDS through my email. This is MY EMAIL BOX. I want it PROTECTED from unwelcome intrusions by corporate entities EXACTLY LIKE that of Scott Richter's Opt In Real Big. He should be prosecuted for attempting to jeopardize OUR privacy with his actions against Spamcop. Legal actions by spammers or email-marketers to impinge OUR rights and OUR privacy can not stand. - Alex Zavatone San Francisco, USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billstewart Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Scotty's Lawsuit's Dishonesty OK, IANAL, so I can't tell you if this is Restraint of Trade or a SLAPP suit or just greed. <p> But Scotty's lawsuit has a bunch of obviously dishonest things about it. For instance, he claims that by leaving out complainers' email addresses, Spamcop is preventing him from doing his CAN-spam duty and removing them from his lists. In fact this is untrue, because spammees who _want_ to complain directly to Scotty can do so. Spamcop is providing a service to those users, allowing them to complain without risking the kinds of revenge that spammers occasionally wreak on complainers, and without risking the more mundane problem of spammers selling complainers' addresses to other spammers. <p>Furthermore, by forbidding Spamcop to forward complaints to upstream ISPs, Scotty is blocking Spamcop from providing their users with a mechanism for effective relief of the problem, because Scotty and every other medium-large spammer can simply use a spam-tolerant ISP as a front, or even run their own spam-tolerant ISP service, and his lawsuit blocks Spamcop from contacting anybody who's actually got a sense of responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrie Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Sign me up, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralsky's Fatal Tumor Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Congrats, HillsCap. We made Slashdot! You hear that rumble, Scotty? You finally pissed the wrong people off, and we're gunning for you. Tick-tock, my dear boy... tick-tock. Spammers fight dirty, but we Fight spammers ghetto-ninja style! REMEMBER!! TELL YOUR FRIENDS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruns Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Count me in. Time to make Snotty's life miserable :-) Theres at least 5 people here who would be willing to join in, and I'm sure I could get at a minimum of 10 more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckloiber Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Hi, all. Since Scott Richter is suing SpamCop to stop them from blocking his spam, I say it's time to strike back against this evil SOB, and protect the SpamCop service which has kept our Inboxes relatively unmolested for so long. Here's my plan: I want everyone interested in participating in a lawsuit against Richter to register their interest by posting to this thread. Then, we'll all compile our Richter spams, submit them to the FTC along with depositions, and have the FTC take Richter to court. There would be no cost to any of you except for the time required to fill out the deposition and print out the spam source code of each spam from Richter. The FTC will even pay for FedEx'ing the stuff back to them. I'm looking for at least 1,000 people, so let's all pitch in and bring this scumbag down. If you know of anyone using SpamCop who doesn't regularly frequent these forums, and they're interested in participating, let them know to come here to register their interest. After I've got the requisite number of people willing to fill out depositions, I'll get in touch with my contact at the FTC, and provide you all with the information necessary to send your depositions and spam printouts to her (contact name, address, FedEx shipping number, etc.). Let's get to it. I would like to add my name to the list of those who wish to stop the spammers cold. I do manage the email servers for a small ISP and we use SpamCop. Currently my logs show that I receive approximately 7500 email connects a day, out of which 2500-3000 are blocked by SpamCop. Of the remaining 5000 messages, probably a good quarter is still spam. This has got to stop. Unfortunately I have not been "warehousing" my old spam, I feed it through sa-learn and dump it. So I hope that doesn't hurt the case. -- Chris Kloiber Raleigh, NC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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