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cris

my email address has been added to a blacklist.

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today i tried to reply to an email which i received from a blogger. he expected and wanted my reply, but instead i got the following response. how do i get this changed, since i DO NOT spam? thank you.

This is the Postfix program at host mail4.mdx.safepages.com.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned

below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can

delete your own text from the message returned below.

The Postfix program

<d\ said: 550-rejected

because ***** is in a black list at bl.spamcop.net 550 Blocked -

see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?****** (in reply to RCPT TO

command)

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Well, if you had gone to the links provided, you would have found the data behind the SpamCopDNSbl listing of the IP address involved ... That you munged the data doesn't allow for anyone here to even take a wild guess as to what 'your' issues might be. You should also note, that though you started rambling about your e-mail address, did you note that the error message says nothing about an e-mail address? Strictly, the IP address of the source of the e-mail.

Did you bother to look at http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=972 ... probably not, as I now see that you posted this into the support Forum for those with a SpamCop E-mail account .... geeze .. I'll move this back to the Help Forum when I post this ....

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Why did you remove the iP address? How would you expect any help without giving any information?

All of our psychics are on vacation this week so if you truly want some assistance then post the IP you think is blocked

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The ususal helpful and positive reply newcomers to this board can expect...

More helpful than the information that was given and more helpful than your reply.

Comparing the two (yours and his) I would say Wazoo gave an excellent reply.

Nuff said!

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Comparing the two (yours and his) I would say Wazoo gave an excellent reply.

Whilst I totally agree that tooangry's contribution wasn't at all helpful, I do think that, on occassions, those of us who've been around SpamCop for awhile can be a little tetchy with newcomers.

Cris has posted just the once and he may well not have realised that the excellent support he'll receive is provided largely voluntarily. Generally we all seem to give new folk the benefit of the doubt. But it beats me why tooangry, and others who are here to complain lots and contribue little, bother to hang around.

Andrew

:huh:

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But it beats me why tooangry, and others who are here to complain lots and contribue little, bother to hang around.

Rule#1?

also see:

Spammer's Standard of Discourse: Threats and intimidation trump facts and logic.

:D

Edited by dra007

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first of all, i DID go to the link. and it didn't tell me anything that made sense. it said something about 930 messages having been bounced off an ip address during the last 24 hours, but it didn't list the ip address sent to me. if i send 10 messages a day, it's unusual.

second. i don't know what the protocol is for how much information to divulge out here.... i've never posted to this board before, but then i've NEVER had this problem before.

> because 216.127.133.19 is in a black list at bl.spamcop.net 550 Blocked -

> see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?216.127.133.19 (in reply to RCPT TO

> command)

lastly, making assumptions about folks isn't terribly helpful either. i'm not a 'he' and i DID go to the link. i did read it.

clicking on this link this morning (just now) it shows

Since SpamCop started counting, this system has been reported about 20 times by less than 10 users. It has been sending mail consistently for at least 196.6 days. In the past 196.1 days, it has been listed 2 times for a total of 41 hours

which isn't what i saw yesterday when i posted my question.

look, i'm just trying to figure out what the heck is going on and get it fixed. all i did was try to reply to a valid message which i received from another person and i was blocked from doing it.

the 'sample sent' looks like this:

sample sent sometime during the 24 hours beginning no date available:

Received:

Subject: [none]

From: [ non-parseable address suppressed ]

this doesn't tell me anything. i typically DO use subjects and why would the from be suppressed?

and no, i didn't know that the 'help' is voluntary .... i thought that spam cop was run by professionals who own and support the site.

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it said something about 930 messages having been bounced off an ip address during the last 24 hours

I can't say that I've seen a message like that before .... what you say in the results of the visit this morning are what one would normally see. (Though I'll admit that this non-parseable address stuff is new to me, only seeing that crop up within the last few days, but that may just be the timing of my lookups)

second. i don't know what the protocol is for how much information to divulge out here.... i've never posted to this board before

Yet, there are plenty of postings to take a gander at that others have made, and a little recon mission to test the waters before posting is always wise, no matter where you're heading. It wouldn't have taken that many "peeks" to see that the IP address is one of the most critical pieces of the puzzle in here.

making assumptions about folks isn't terribly helpful either. i'm not a 'he' and i DID go to the link. i did read it.

sure, assumptions suck, but when dealing with a complete lack of data and a request for an answer, how else does one propose to bridge that gap? And as far as discerning your sex from a simple screen name ...???

So to get back to your issue, the critical item is that there have been some spam reports made against that IP, but one should norw that the spamtrap hits carry a higher weight in the mathmatical formula of the listing/de-listing routine. To get any further data on the actual contents of the spamtrap hits, an e-mail to Deputies at admin.spamcop.net will be required from the ISP, as only they have access to the spamtrap contents. One should note that the list of so many other IPs "in the neighborhood usually is a bad sign.

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In addition, right now that IP is showing it has fallen off the bl so your problem should be gone for the time being.

Query bl.spamcop.net - 216.127.133.19

216.127.133.19 is mail4.mdx.safepages.com

216.127.133.19 not listed in bl.spamcop.net

Since SpamCop started counting, this system has been reported about 20 times by less than 10 users. It has been sending mail consistently for at least 196.6 days. In the past 196.1 days, it has been listed 2 times for a total of 41 hours

In the past week, this system has:

Been detected sending mail to spam traps

Been witnessed sending mail about 900 times

if i send 10 messages a day, it's unusual.

The IP that was listed is one you share with others who send email through the safepages.com server. It is not counting all of your messages or even all of the messages being sent by that server. It is counting how often various systems around the world see that IP as sending them email.

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Wow, what timing ... less than 10 minutes between Steven's check and mine .. I've still got the evidence page on screen .. and it dropped off the list .. hurrah for the math formula involved for the de-listing process .. here's hoping it stays off for a while <g>

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I have been following this thread with a great deal of sympathy for its initiator. I have joined only because I found myself also blacklisted, though I have never sent a bulk email in my life, and never sent an unsolicited email.

I'm terrified of writing to this help forum and asking for help. I have spent hours pouring through past threads on the topic, and my efforts have left me with little more than a fear that I will be shouted at for asking a question illustrative of the fact that I am not very computer savvy.

I've read all of the FAQs, but am still at a loss as to why I am on a blacklist.

My technical information is as follows:

144.135.25.159

From what I can gather, I have been accused of doing something wrong 5770 times by 1680 users, over 135.8 days. I am apparently the source of 110 spam attacks, have been detected by spam traps, and have been 'sending email' 1970 times.

My guess, after reading all the FAQ, is that my ISP - bigpond.com (one of the largest ISPs in Australia), has been accused of spamming, or hosting spammers. This surprises me, as I have always found them to be a very responsible ISP, and they have a very good reputation as such in Australia. I am left with one other theory: a virus is somehow circulating through bigpond accounts, and this is being mistakenly identified as spam.

Perhaps my theories will sound naive, but I am also hoping that they'll serve as a reflection of what can be deduced by a technophobe after two hours of trying to digest SpamCop's help pages.

I would like to know how I get myself OFF the blacklist. I am not in a position to telephone the person to whom I tried to send my email, so that he may rectify the matter from his end. I am currently in the Czech Republic, he is in Australia, and my email is work related and urgent.

Is there anything I can do?

Zoe

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cris, I don't think they answered your questions.

You may have been able to tell from their posts and your own observations that the blocklist keeps changing as people report spam and as ISP's stop the spam (or the spammer takes a break).

If you have already read the pinned FAQ on 'Why Am I Blocked' and didn't understand it, it would be helpful if you posted what was confusing to you so that we can make it more understandable.

The reason your email was blocked is because your IP address was noted as sending spam - apparently to spam traps. The most common reason that spam traps get email that counts as spam is that someone at your IP address is sending automatic virus notifications or emailed bounces to spam messages.

The second most common reason is that someone at your IP address has a trojan on their machine which is sending spam.

I don't know why you are assuming that your IP address and email address are the same - or if they really are. Knowing that there is a difference between the two is essential to understanding what is happening.

Please let us know that you now understand what the problem is and how to fix it. Since the IP address has been listed 2 times already, it will probably be listed again unless the problem has been fixed.

Miss Betsy

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I would like to know how I get myself OFF the blacklist. I am not in a position to telephone the person to whom I tried to send my email, so that he may rectify the matter from his end. I am currently in the Czech Republic, he is in Australia, and my email is work related and urgent.

Is there anything I can do?

You will need to take up the matter with bigpond, or switch to a different provider.

You may wish to contact the other person by setting up a web email account with someone like yahoo, hotmail, or other. Once you have re-established contact with the other person you should try to find out if they are managing their own mail server (if so, ask them to white list bigpond) or if someone else is managing their mail (in which case they should ask their provider to white list you.)

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I'm terrified of writing to this help forum and asking for help. I have spent hours pouring through past threads on the topic, and my efforts have left me with little more than a fear that I will be shouted at for asking a question illustrative of the fact that I am not very computer savvy.

One of the "problems" with this forum (and Spamcop in general) is that the people who make the effort to hang out here and answer questions are rabid anti-spammers.

As a result, they (in general) do not tolerate people speaking ill of their precious Spamcop. You were right to fear asking your question - but you asked it in the right "tone of voice", so I doubt you'll get harrassed...

Now. Having said all that...

My guess, after reading all the FAQ, is that my ISP - bigpond.com (one of the largest ISPs in Australia), has been accused of spamming, or hosting spammers. This surprises me, as I have always found them to be a very responsible ISP, and they have a very good reputation as such in Australia. [...]

Is there anything I can do?

I don't have personal experience with Bigpond, but the SPEWS listing is damning!

Your only recourse may be to switch to a different ISP.

Sorry...

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Thanks for your response, Chris.

I wonder if there is a list available of all the ISP's who employ SpamCop's services to filter client's email?

It may be easier for me to cease correspondence with those colleagues who employ SpamCop's services. Drastic measures, I know. But my experience of both Yahoo and Hotmail was always a spam nightmare. By contrast, in all the time I have been with bigpond (four years), I never recieved a single bit of spam. Not one offer of penile enhancement, nor even the most fleeting promise of large breasted teens. So blissful, in fact, that I even thought Viagra was an incorrectly spelt waterfall in Canada.

Yahoo changed all that. A thousand lucrative contracts wouldn't tempt me to sign up for another account with them.

I also wonder if Spamcop shares its blacklists with other spam filtering services? I'll be hopping mad if it turns out that I'm blacklisted elsewhere.

I don't mean to sound too down on SpamCop... it's just been a frustrating few hours trying to sort out this debacle. It leaves me wondering what's worse: spam, or overly vigilant spam filters.

With thanks, all the same,

Zoe :)

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Okay...okay. I have to post this sheepish realisation right away.

Although my ISP in Australia is BigPond... I myself am NOT in Australia at the moment. Here's the greatest illustration of just how computer illiterate I really am:

The ISP I've been using is NOT BigPond... but whatever this particular computer is linked up to? Am I right?

I can hear all the groans coming forth as I work this one out... but please bear in mind that I made no pretence of being computer savvy. One might well be imagining 'How on earth could someone be so stupid as to not realise that if they are overseas, they are obviously NOT connected to the internet through the ISP that they use back home?'

In light of such ignorances- and the fact that they evidently exist (myself being exhibit 'a')... would it not be useful to have a glossary of technical terms in the SpamCop help pages?

I did try to follow a link to a glossary- something about acronymns and the internet... but the best it could tell me was that BRB meant 'Be Right Back' (or something to that effect), which wasn't much use as I was trying to decipher the reasons I may have been blacklisted.

The internet- for me (and, I suspect, many others)- is like a car. I use it to perform simple tasks, like getting from A to B. In the example of my car, I know how to change a tyre, how to top up the oil, and how to refuel. On the internet, I know how to click a button to send a message, and how to type.

If someone asked me to understand how the engine of my car works, I'd be at a total and utter loss. Likewise, with the internet, I think it's safe to assume that not everyone is as technically proficient as the next person.

Finding myself on a blacklist then- as someone who is unable to even really comprehend the definition of ISP- is a rather alarming concept.

If SpamCop would like to endear itself to newcomers- and thus endear them to its cause- perhaps a little bit more information on the ins and outs of spam would be helpful. And I don't mean links. I tried the links. Again, the example of the car:

I use a car, but whilst I don't understand the workings of the engine, I would like to know the politics behind the aquisition of oil. I don't just take it for granted that it's my god-given-right to drive. I'd like to use the internet responsibly, too... and I guess I've always thought that I have.

It's easy to feel bitter to a service like SpamCop when one is simply told that one is 'blacklisted', and then thrust a handful of links to follow in order to work out what the nature of spam actually is. You can get lost in links. I spent two hours trawling through them. A nice, clear page with 'click here if you know nothing about the internet' would have saved me a great deal of frustration, and, most of all, would have provided a more welcoming introduction to SpamCop's services and, ultimately, its cause.

Okay. Laid bare my ignorances now. There's only so much a mind can absorb; though that's no excuse for not wanting to learn more. I have a few degrees... just not in anything remotely related to computers. Or cars.

Enough rambling. If you've made it this far, thanks for your indulgence.

Zoe

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I'll be hopping mad if it turns out that I'm blacklisted elsewhere.

Other blocklists this one server is in:

SPAMCOP SpamCop Blocking List: bl.spamcop.net -> 127.0.0.2

Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?144.135.25.159

BLARSBL Blars Block List: block.blars.org -> 127.1.0.17

+ WYTNIJTO the biggest Polish database - spam.throw-away.this: spam.wytnij.to -> 127.0.0.1

PSBL Passive spam Block List: psbl.surriel.com -> 127.0.0.2

Your mailserver hit a spamtrap, see http://psbl.surriel.com/listing?ip=144.135.25.159

ORID AntiSpam DNSBL: dnsbl.antispam.or.id -> 127.0.0.2

IP 144.135.25.159 is a possible spam source. See http://antispam.or.id/?ip=144.135.25.159

SPAMRBL French anti-spam site: map.spam-rbl.com -> 127.0.0.2

IP is known as spammer - See http://www.spam-rbl.com/ipstat.cgi?ip=144.135.25.159

YAMTASS ..little blacklist of any source IP that connected to our network to deliver spam..: spamsources.yamta.org -> 127.0.0.2

CSMA-SBL McFadden Associates, IPs of mailservers that send spam once in a short timefram: sbl.csma.biz -> 127.0.0.2

http://bl.csma.biz/cgi-bin/listing.cgi?ip=144.135.25.159

CYBERLOGIC local bl at Cyberlogic, Blocking list used to prevent reoccuring spam: dnsbl.cyberlogic.net -> 127.0.0.2

See http://dnsbl.cyberlogic.net.

RANGERSRBL local bl somewhere in .pl: rbl.rangers.eu.org -> spam.rbl.rangers.eu.org. -> 127.0.0.2

spam.rbl.rangers.eu.org.

spam source

NETHERUNSURE hosts that can not be tested: unsure.nether.net -> 127.0.0.2

SORBSSPEWS-L1 spam Prevention Early Warning System - Level 1 Mirror: l1.spews.dnsbl.sorbs.net -> 127.0.0.2

! [1] bigpond, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S3055

SORBSSPEWS-L2 spam Prevention Early Warning System - Level 2 Mirror: l2.spews.dnsbl.sorbs.net -> 127.0.0.2

! [1] bigpond, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S3055

DRBL-VOTE-SANDY Distributed RBL node: sandy.ru: vote.drbl.sandy.ru -> 127.0.0.2

040213:bigpond blackhole

DRBL-WORK-SANDY Distributed RBL node: sandy.ru: work.drbl.sandy.ru -> 127.0.0.2

zaraza:040213:bigpond blackhole

DRBL-VOTE-VOLGADMIN Distributed RBL node: Volgograd city administration: vote.drbl.volgadmin.ru -> 127.0.0.2

DRBL-WORK-VOLGADMIN Distributed RBL node: Volgograd city administration: work.drbl.volgadmin.ru -> 127.0.0.2

weight: 1; vote.drbl.volgadmin.ru/1.0

DRBL-WORK-GREMLIN Distributed RBL node: gremlin.ru: work.drbl.gremlin.ru -> 127.0.0.2

vote.drbl.sandy.ru[at]ns.sci-nnov.ru:040213:bigpond blackhole

vote.drbl.rss.com.ru[at]ns.rss.com.ru:cannot resolve sender domain. Script_Angel.

Edited by Merlyn

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There are people who are totally ignorant of how cars work (I once knew someone who threw away a tire because it got a nail in it). However, there really isn't a whole lot to learn to be a responsible driver - it does take a little experience. And your experience with spamcop is one of those 'learning' experiences.

You do need to know a little more about how the internet works than how to click and type. I have had a hotmail account for years and rarely get spam because I used an alphanumeric name and have been careful who I give it to. It has never received a virus. OTOH, an hotmail account I just opened got a dictionary attack spam the other day. And my home account which also doesn't get spam gets numerous viruses because I have a big range of correspondents (some of whom don't know how to keep from getting viruses).

If you open a hotmail account and use z03sn3wacc0unt or something similar, don't ever enter your email address into any internet web site, ask your friends not to send you cards there, and be sure that it is not included in a list of email addresses published for a club or something on the web, then you will probably never see a spam. You can download hotmail in OE and not even have to fuss with the web site. (to use your car analogy, if you change your oil regularly, you rarely have a breakdown or if you are a defensive driver, you rarely have an accident).

I am a technically non fluent person and I decided I wanted to do something about spam. I was able to figure out the concept behind IP addresses and blocklists and shared servers fairly easily. (Figuring out how to use spamcop was a little more difficult) and I only have one degree. So don't be intimidated. And very few people are really rude - just blunt. Again, my initiation was in the newsgroup which is a lot 'blunter' than the web forum, but I figured that out pretty quickly. Of course, when you are trying to find a solution to a problem rather than just researching, it may not seem that way. Get yourself a hotmail account, get your correspondence going and then read about spam fighting at your leisure. I am sure you will not find it all that difficult.

Miss Betsy

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first of all, i DID go to the link. and it didn't tell me anything that made sense. it said something about 930 messages having been bounced off an ip address during the last 24 hours, but it didn't list the ip address sent to me. if i send 10 messages a day, it's unusual.

<snip>

clicking on this link this morning (just now) it shows

Since SpamCop started counting, this system has been reported about 20 times by less than 10 users. It has been sending mail consistently for at least 196.6 days. In the past 196.1 days, it has been listed 2 times for a total of 41 hours

which isn't what i saw yesterday when i posted my question.

<snip>

the 'sample sent' looks like this:

sample sent sometime during the 24 hours beginning no date available:

Received:

Subject: [none]

From: [ non-parseable address suppressed ]

this doesn't tell me anything. i typically DO use subjects and why would the from be suppressed?

<snip>

Hi, Cris,

...You've made a terrible, although understandable, false assumption (please note, this isn't a value judgment of you!). You have not been accused of anything and the pages you saw did not mean that you sent the sample spam. You send e-mail through your e-mail provider's outgoing servers and on up the Internet chain of servers. Your e-mail provider has an outgoing server (or there is another server along the chain) that has been reported as having sent spam.

look, i'm just trying to figure out what the heck is going on and get it fixed. all i did was try to reply to a valid message which i received from another person and i was blocked from doing it.

...And what the replies to your post are trying to tell you, however rudely you may take it, is that we need more information than you provided in your first post in order to help you "figure out what the heck is going on." Which you did. I'm glad you hung in there! :) <g>

<snip>

and no, i didn't know that the 'help' is voluntary .... i thought that spam cop was run by professionals who own and support the site.

...It is but the first line of support is us volunteers, in part because the professionals are few, extremely busy and need help from us to triage the problems, which we (with the help of the people like you who come here with problems) can often solve.

Edited by turetzsr

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<snip>

making assumptions about folks isn't terribly helpful either. i'm not a 'he' and i DID go to the link. i did read it.

sure, assumptions suck, but when dealing with a complete lack of data and a request for an answer, how else does one propose to bridge that gap? And as far as discerning your sex from a simple screen name ...???

<snip>

Hi, Wazoo,

...That's just the point -- since you couldn't discern the sex of the poster from the content, you should not have used a male pronoun! :) <g>

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Hi, Zoe!

<snip>

My technical information is as follows:

144.135.25.159

From what I can gather, I have been accused of doing something wrong 5770 times by 1680 users, over 135.8 days. I am apparently the source of 110 spam attacks, have been detected by spam traps, and have been 'sending email' 1970 times.

<snip>

...No, no, no, no, NO! No one has accused you of anything. You've made a common and understandable mistake, given the information that was shown.

I would like to know how I get myself OFF the blacklist. I am not in a position to telephone the person to whom I tried to send my email, so that he may rectify the matter from his end. I am currently in the Czech Republic, he is in Australia, and my email is work related and urgent.

Is there anything I can do?

Zoe

...Answered above by others, I think, but basically the answer is that if you are sharing an outgoing e-mail server with a spammer, you have only three choices (of which I am aware):

  • get the owner of that server to stop the spamming (and then wait up to 48 hours after the last spam report for the server's IP address to fall off the SpamCop.net blocklist)
  • get your correspondent's e-mail provider to "whitelist" you -- put your e-mail address on a list of those from which it will accept e-mail even if it comes through a server that is in the blocklist
  • find an e-mail provider whose outgoing e-mail servers are not on the blocklist

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<snip>

I wonder if there is a list available of all the ISP's who employ SpamCop's services to filter client's email?

Hi, Zoe,

...Almost certainly not that they would be willing to provide to you.

It may be easier for me to cease correspondence with those colleagues who employ SpamCop's services. Drastic measures, I know. But my experience of both Yahoo and Hotmail was always a spam nightmare. By contrast, in all the time I have been with bigpond (four years), I never recieved a single bit of spam. Not one offer of penile enhancement, nor even the most fleeting promise of large breasted teens. So blissful, in fact, that I even thought Viagra was an incorrectly spelt waterfall in Canada.

...You probably weren't implying this but just in case someone else is unclear on this point: an e-mail provider (such as your experience with bigpond) may be very good at preventing spam from reaching its customers' inboxes (but I hope they bounced, rather than just dropped, e-mails that they did not forward on to you, so that any e-mails they classified as spam but really were not went back with a notification to the sender!) but horrid at stopping spam from going out via their servers.

Yahoo changed all that. A thousand lucrative contracts wouldn't tempt me to sign up for another account with them.

...Hmm. I have a Yahoo!Mail account and, while I do get a good bit of spam, almost all of it goes into my "Bulk Mail" folder and all but a very rare e-mail in my "Bulk Mail" folder is truly spam.

I also wonder if Spamcop shares its blacklists with other spam filtering services? I'll be hopping mad if it turns out that I'm blacklisted elsewhere.

...Since it's publicly available, SpamCop.net potentially shares its list with all other spam filtering services, should they choose to use it.

I don't mean to sound too down on SpamCop... it's just been a frustrating few hours trying to sort out this debacle.

...Understood. :) <g>

It leaves me wondering what's worse: spam, or overly vigilant spam filters.

<snip>

...Clearly, and without reservation, I say that spammers are far, far worse. Overly vigilant spam fighters do not steal computing resources from others and they do not fill anyone's e-mail Inboxes with trash that takes up valuable disc space and takes time to plod through.

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<snip>

In light of such ignorances- and the fact that they evidently exist (myself being exhibit 'a')... would it not be useful to have a glossary of technical terms in the SpamCop help pages?

...This should be easy. All we need to know is: exactly which terms do you think need to be defined? I'm sure we volunteers will be able to get them into the pinned entries in this forum.

<snip>

Finding myself on a blacklist then- as someone who is unable to even really comprehend the definition of ISP- is a rather alarming concept.

If SpamCop would like to endear itself to newcomers- and thus endear them to its cause- perhaps a little bit more information on the ins and outs of spam would be helpful. And I don't mean links. I tried the links.

<snip>

...Again, if you could give us some pointers as to exactly what kind of information you think should be provided, we can start work on that. This will probably be more difficult, though, as I would anticipate that it will take a lot more back-and-forth among both us relatively experienced volunteers and relatively novice contributors such as yourself to complete a useful list.

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