Is it really doing any good?

[Farelf]

...

1) The end users are running Windows.

2) The relative youth of the Internet in both countries means the sysadmins from businesses to ISPs don't have a solid footing yet and therefore are in way over their heads when it comes to handling anything having to do with their network(s).

...

28564[/snapback]

Thanks, so anyone with regular dealings with these countries is going to end up on the indigenous lists and, since this is not typical, run the risk that volume is not going to adequately trip the respose of block lists like the SpamCop one. Worth knowing, I think, but no consolation to "lead scouts" such as yourself.

[RobertWilliams]

Does anyone else ACTUALLY read some of the spam that comes through? I figured since I've gotta open it anyways (so that I can get the decoded e-mail body), I'm gonna pay closer attention to what is coming in.

Anyways, where I'm going with this is that I'll receive 4 or 5 e-mails that all look very similar (if not total copies of one another) within seconds of eachother. But, here is the kicker, they all have different IP Addresses. And sometimes those IP Addresses are separated by oceans. Now, what are the ODDS of even 2 different people SPAMMING the same company at the SAME time? We're talking 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 here (I'm just guessing, I'll let you do the math).

So, I looked up an old friend and he pointed me toward IP Spoofers. Programs that can change your IP Address and make it look like any address you want it to look like.

I paid $15 for the SpamCop Service, and I donated $25 (EUR) to Martijn for his awesome efforts on OR Filter. But if these crooked, self-centered, pricks can just spoof their IP to look like it is mine, then what is the point in going through all of this hassle? Within the next 5-10 years, 95% the IP Addresses in the world will be on one Blocking list or another.

So again, I ask.... Is it REALLY Worth it???

Thanks guys

Enjoy

RW

.

(New Topic/post was merged into tghis existing Topic .... PM sent to advise RW of this action)

[Wazoo]

IP spoofing and manipulating e-mail headers are different 'arts' .... used for different 'events' .... what you'd want to be researching as far as e-mail/spam spew sources is "zombied" systems ... those that have been compromised / commandeered by nefarious folks that then use those systems to 'send' the spam out ... and of course, this is only one of the many ways the spew traverses the 'net' ... just trying to fit into your "IP spoofing" scenario as best / close as one can get, again, the wrong tool identified for the situation discussed ...

[RobertWilliams]

Ok, then if that's the problem, why are we reporting systems that have been commandeered? Are we just trying to force them to pay to get their system fixed? What is the point in that? All the spammers are going to do is find someone else that doesn't know how to get Windows Updates.

Computers have been around long enough for EVERYONE to know that there is alot of BAD JUJU out there on the internet. Here are a few rules to getting on the internet:

1. Windows Updates (They're freakin FREE)

2. Office Updates (They're freakin FREE)

3. VIRUS PROTECTION (It's freakin' cheap now) Symantec, McAfee, TrendHouse.

4. Anti-spyware (It's freakin' FREE) Spybot S&D, MS AntiSpyware

5. DON'T OPEN E-MAILS if you DON'T KNOW the SENDER.

I understand we need to report spam, I'm glad SpamCop is here, we wouldn't be able to do it without you.

Thanks Wazoo,

RW

[Wazoo]

Ok, then if that's the problem, why are we reporting systems that have been commandeered?

Technically, reports would be going to their ISP, in hopes that their ISP would disconnect the system until it was 'cleaned up' ....

Computers have been around long enough for EVERYONE to know that there is alot of BAD JUJU out there on the internet.

Yeah, but .... see http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...indpost&p=28952 .... and from a recent posting ocer in the newsgroups from a user that states "I'm close to a "charter" member of SC" .. but then replies to my bit of "clueless?" query with "... but I find the Theory of Groups, and Number Theory generally, infinitely more interesting (no pun intended) than Tracking URLs (and eMail headers, generally), and hence am unable to dedicate time to study of the latter." (found at http://news.spamcop.net/pipermail/spamcop-...ead.html#101537 )

Knowing is one thing, understanding and handling it is something else entirely <g>

Here are a few rules to getting on the internet:

    1.  Windows Updates (They're freakin FREE)
    2.  Office Updates (They're freakin FREE)

Yes, but .... 3.1x, 95 support pretty dead, 98 on its way out, XP has its own issues, still using Office 97 myself, and again, support is pretty nill ...

3.  VIRUS PROTECTION (It's freakin' cheap now) Symantec, McAfee, TrendHouse.

Free tools listed elsewhere

4.  Anti-spyware (It's freakin' FREE) Spybot S&D, MS AntiSpyware

Microsoft bought another company's product, worked on it a bit, and offered it as a Beta ... no longer supports anything below XP or 2000 ... again, other tools listed elsewhere

5.  DON'T OPEN E-MAILS if you DON'T KNOW the SENDER.

I used to say that, before virus code started reading from the user's address books, thus sending crap out from folks you 'DID' know .... I've changed my words to "if you have no idea why an attachment is 'there' " .....

[Tserrof]

I am new to SpamCop this week. From the beginning it seemed as if SpamCop is a magnet for spam. The mail held the first day was five-fold our usual number of spam. The spam getting by the filters and into Outlook Express is about twice what it was before--and far more porno spam. I was hoping SpamCop could cut down the number of spam, but no such luck. Then when I tried to move a newsletter I subscribe to from the held-mail to my Outlook Express, I couldn't do it. I couldn't find an effective way to get SpamCop to recognize friendly mail that I don't want held. So far this program seems to be more trouble than it's worth.

[Wazoo]

I am new to SpamCop this week.  From the beginning it seemed as if SpamCop is a magnet for spam.  The mail held the first day was five-fold our usual number of spam.

I would have to state that there is a lot of missing data in your story. What you state here makes no sense at all .. Then again, you don't actually state what type of account you signed up for, how you are using it, what you've done with it, any configuration details ....????

  The spam getting by the filters and into Outlook Express is about twice what it was before--and far more porno spam.

This implies a SpamCop Filtered E-mail Account ... it also implies that there are some issues in what you've done with it, how you configured it, etc. Again, that you say you signed up "this week" and your incoming spam went up five-fold the first day" ...???? You're missing some kind of background to come up with any suggestions as to how this could have happened, short of you timed things just right and your original (?) e-mail address had just been sold to a few more prolific spammers ...???? Yet, you actually don't say anything about "reporting" any spam, so can't even use this as a possibility ...???

I was hoping SpamCop could cut down the number of spam, but no such luck.  Then when I tried to move a newsletter I subscribe to from the held-mail to my Outlook Express, I couldn't do it.  I couldn't find an effective way to get SpamCop to recognize friendly mail that I don't want held.  So far this program seems to be more trouble than it's worth.

I'll tell you what I find confusing .. there's a Forum section on "setting up a SpamCop Filtered E-Mail account" .... there's another on issues with a "SpamCop Filtered E-Maill account" .. yet you chose to make your first post into this huge Topic/Discussion in the Lounge area ...???? To me, there's something wrong with this picture ....

[Tserrof]

I would have to state that there is a lot of missing data in your story.  What you state here makes no sense at all .. Then again, you don't actually state what type of account you signed up for, how you are using it, what you've done with it, any configuration details ....????

This implies a SpamCop Filtered E-mail Account ... it also implies that there are some issues in what you've done with it, how you configured it, etc.  Again, that you say you signed up "this week" and your incoming spam went up five-fold the first day" ...???? You're missing some kind of background to come up with any suggestions as to how this could have happened, short of you timed things just right and your original (?) e-mail address had just been sold to a few more prolific spammers ...????  Yet, you actually don't say anything about "reporting" any spam, so can't even use this as a possibility ...???

I'll tell you what I find confusing .. there's a Forum section on "setting up a SpamCop Filtered E-Mail account" .... there's another on issues with a "SpamCop Filtered E-Maill account" .. yet you chose to make your first post into this huge Topic/Discussion in the Lounge area ...???? To me, there's something wrong with this picture ....

28992[/snapback]

[Jeff G.]

Tserrof, posting without inclusion of new content is discouraged here. I have created a new Topic Helping Tserrof in the SpamCop Email System & Accounts Forum that discusses your issues as they relate to the SpamCop Email System.

[Tserrof]

29000[/snapback]

Hey Wazoo: try to help, don't shoot the messinger. I did go to the forum and learned a lot that wasn't in the instructions. Over the first two days I reported about 30 spam (porno and unsolicited e-mail ads sent to multiple computers), but reported them incorrectly. The forum told me how to do it right; and yesterday, I reported another 10 to 12. That still doesn't explain why spam coming to my e-mail account has soared since downloading SpamCop.

I paid $30 for SpamCop believing that it would cut down spam. Imagin how stunned I was to find spam increasing exponentially. Last night, after rescuing 6 legitimate e-mail, I deleted six screens of spam from Held Mail. I never received such a huge amount of spam prior to SpamCop. Now you tell me it's my fault? That I have to configure the program to make it work? Fair enough, instead of forcing me to reinvent the wheel through trial and error, point me in the direction where I can learn how to configure SpamCop.

[turetzsr]

Hey Wazoo: try to help, don't shoot the messinger.

29002[/snapback]

...What makes you think that's what he was doing? I think you misunderstood him (but I think I understand why). This is probably an "ass/u/me" failure. <g>

<snip>

That still doesn't explain why spam coming to my e-mail account has soared since downloading SpamCop.

29002[/snapback]

...Offhand, I can think of two possible reasons:

• Coincidence: with the general increase in spam, everyone's spam is increasing and it has nothing to do with your just having signed up for SpamCop
  
• A spammer-friendly ISP passed your report, along with the copy of the spam included in the report, on to the spammer and something in the spam itself identifies your e-mail address.
  

I paid $30 for SpamCop believing that it would cut down spam.  Imagin how stunned I was to find spam increasing exponentially.<snip>

29002[/snapback]

...Sorry you were misinformed. The purpose of SpamCop reporting is to report spam. Yes, we hope that some reports to abuse desks will result in action that will eliminate that particular spam source but as long as there's money in it, there will be spam.

[Wazoo]

Hey Wazoo: try to help, don't shoot the messinger. 

I can only work with what is offered up. You used a "magic" phrase in this last expansion of the background ...

I did go to the forum and learned a lot that wasn't in the instructions. Over the first two days I reported about 30 spam (porno and unsolicited e-mail ads sent to multiple computers), but reported them incorrectly.  The forum told me how to do it right; and yesterday, I reported another 10 to 12.  That still doesn't explain why spam coming to my e-mail account has soared since downloading SpamCop.

The majority of this belong in another Forum section .. but I have to ask ... exactly what did you "download" ...???? This smells like you fell for the spamcop.COM thing, but are complaining to spamcop.NET ... yet you do appear to then talk about an e-mail account ...????

I paid $30 for SpamCop believing that it would cut down spam.  Imagin how stunned I was to find spam increasing exponentially.  Last night, after rescuing 6 legitimate e-mail, I deleted six screens of spam from Held Mail.  I never received such a huge amount of spam prior to SpamCop.  Now you tell me it's my fault? That I have to configure the program to make it work?  Fair enough, instead of forcing me to reinvent the wheel through trial and error, point me in the direction where I can learn how to configure SpamCop.

I did point out the other possible SpamCop. NET Forum sections, but that you've included a suggestion of "downloading something from SpamCop" ... even those guesses may be totally wrong.

[RobertWilliams]

Well, I guess all that really matter is that I'M up to date on everything. I guess I'm doing my part there too. I'm going to keep supporting SpamCop, because I do know these guys are doing a job that most people wouldn't even consider doing.

I just wanted to bring up a point that I thought many others might have also been thinking about. And I guess they were.

Thanks Wazoo

RW

[Wazoo]

I just wanted to bring up a point that I thought many others might have also been thinking about.  And I guess they were.

Interestingly enough, there's a Topic started after your query that relates directly to compromised machines, reports and actions taken, etc. See http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4353 ... I notified my ISP that one of their IP addresses was connected to a system that was being used to provide DNS service to a spammer .. I note that a check this morning shows that the mchsi IP address is not there any more, but the comcast IP addresses are the same (a bit of a hint as to abuse desk reaction <g>)

[ufo-joe]

I suggest that additional pressure (supplementing Spamcop's efforts) should be applied to the worst offenders. I recently posted the following letter to the Chinese Embassy in London. If everyone complained to their Chinese embassy in the same vein, perhaps they would act on the matter:

"Cultural Attaché

Chinese Embassy

49-51 Portland Place

London

W1N 4JL

Cc: The British Foreign & Commonwealth Office

11th May 2005

<snip>

As yet I have had no reply from the Chinese Embassy, I will report back here if and when I get one.

28186[/snapback]

Just an update on my earlier post referred to above.

No reply from the Chinese Embassy (and none from the BF&CO, though none was expected anyway) but.........

My spam originating from China is down to less than 50% of what it was!

I don't know if this is lucky timing, or if a few spammers have been taken out and shot in China?

Joe

[Wazoo]

Just an update on my earlier post referred to above.

No reply from the Chinese Embassy (and none from the BF&CO, though none was expected anyway) but.........

My spam originating from China is down to less than 50% of what it was!

I don't know if this is lucky timing, or if a few spammers have been taken out and shot in China? 

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/FL14Ad02.html

http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/toolkit/se...39150051,00.htm

http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,50455,00.html

As noted from the dates of these articles, this stuff didn't happen overnight ...

To keep up with S. Linford's efforts, see http://www.spamhaus.org/

[ufo-joe]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/FL14Ad02.html

http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/toolkit/se...39150051,00.htm

http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,50455,00.html

As noted from the dates of these articles, this stuff didn't happen overnight ...

To keep up with S. Linford's efforts, see http://www.spamhaus.org/

29024[/snapback]

Thanks for that Wazoo. I still suspect that maybe some action has been taken as a result of my letter (and anyone else that posted similar letters at the time), though it is of course a little early to be confident.

I shall now re-evaluate my received spam and pick out the next worst offender if one can be identified, and write to their embassy. I'll keep the list posted.

Cheers,

Joe

[Joann]

I am a new member. Have dial-up - Earthlink.net. Earthlink filters out a certain amount of the spam, but I am bummed that it does not seem to be able to filter out the obscene sexually explicit emails -- especially sinced they have such obscene subject lines -- that I have been receiving a lot of lately. Also, I have been receiving offers for instant cash - $500 to $1500 - all I have to do is give them my bank account number. I will never have to borrow from friends again. Earthlink does not seem to be able to filter most of these. It does get the viagra and breast enhancement ones and most of the mortgage offers. Anyway, I am trying to do something to stem the tide. It would be nice if I could learn about responses to my reports. For a while I was receiving 30-50 sexually explicit emails a day, and now I am down to about 5. Thanks SpamCop.

[Paranoid2000]

I'd just like to mention the results of reports made to 2 domain registrars of spamvertised domains:

The Good - PlanetDomain.Com

Subject: [GCJ-30255]: spam complaint: jinnkk.com (planetdomain-com: message 3 of 10)

====== Please reply above this line ======

spam complaint: jinnkk.com

We have suspended the account.

Kind regards,

Murray Kester

Operations Manager

PlanetDomain.Com

Your Global Domain Name Registrar

(for confirmation, check out the Whois entry at DNSStuff).

The Bad - DirectNIC

Date: 06/08/05 11:36pm

From: mwebster

Hello,

directNIC is not providing hosting for the sites in question. You will have to contact the hosting company that is providing the DNS services.

We, the registrar (not its registrant) of the domain in question, have no control over what it does or does not do. In any case involving spam or other abuse, the registrar has absolutely nothing to do with the problem, unless the registrar and host are one in the same.

directNIC support

Needless to say, DirectNIC have had a reply explaining that their role is identical to that of an ISP, accepting money in exchange for a service. They do seem to be actively supporting spammers to the extent of rejecting complaints to abuse (at) directnic.com so complaints have to be made via their webpage http://www.directnic.com/help/tts/ - I'd encourage anyone receiving spam for a DirectNIC-registered site to use this.

[elind]

Hello to everyone,

I am new to this forum and a paid member of SpamCop.

I have been reporting spam now for over 6 months.

I have to question if SpamCop really helps reduce spam.

It seems I am getting more spam today then I was when I first signed up with SpamCop.  I do not plan on renewing my subscription unless someone can tell me that it's all worth it.  Reporting spam does take time away from my day and I don't mind as long as I know that I am doing some good in the fight against spam.

I have noticed that at least 70% of my spam is coming from chinanet.net and it just keeps coming. Reporting it does not seem to stop.  I get on an average of 150 to 200 spam emails per week.

Can anyone out there in SpamCop land tell me if this is all worth the effort.

18721[/snapback]

I don't see how not reporting will save you time. You still have to review and filter the incoming messages. Spamcop alread does that. Scan the held mail quickly for possible real messages. That takes seconds for a full screen page. Check all the spam boxes (usuall check all). Hit the trash button and it's done. I do it periodically when I'm trying to figure out what my next online task is and it takes no time. 20,000 reports so far and I'm not suffering.

[waugh]

We wouldn't bother reporting if we thought we saw on the horizon a one-fell-swoop solution to spam, right? By that, I mean a solution that doesn't require manually addressing spammers or their providers. A systematic solution.

I have read arguments against challenge-response. They say that for one thing, spammers forge return addresses and the challenges go to innocent bystanders. Thus, if I turn on challenge-response, I'm morally responsible for the bystanders' being bombarded with mail that is not useful to them, so in effect I become a spammer. Secondly, they say that when a business I'm dealing with voluntarily sends me automated mail that I want to receive, the business can't deal with umteen kinds of challenges coming from various versions of challenge-response software or services. The result would be that I wouldn't get the automated mail I want to receive from businesses I'm voluntarily dealing with.

To answer the first argument, on innocent bystanders: the problem will go away when spam dies out. And if everyone used challenge-response services, spam wouldn't work for the spammers, and so the volume of spam would drop to about zero. When that happens, there will be no or very few challenges sent to innocent bystanders on account of forged return addresses in spam, because spam will be a thing of the past because it will not help any spammer's bottom line.

To answer the second argument, I suggest this. Everyone use a service like sneakemail.com. When you establish a relationship with a business, you give them one of your Sneakemail addresses or equivalent from another similar server. You route the messages from those addresses directly to your inbox, bypassing challenge-response. That way, you can get mail from your business correspondents.

Counterarguments?

[StevenUnderwood]

Counterarguments?

29952[/snapback]

Plenty...just no time to get into it. Search these forums or the newsgroups for Challenge Response.

Personally, I approve EVERY C/R I get so I can send an explanation to the "protected" address how their system has affected me. The fact that my approving the C/R may allow a spam or virus through, only amplifies my point.

[Wazoo]

Search these forums  or the newsgroups for Challenge Response.

Not like this is a new argument / discussion point. Defintion worked up for the Glossary, an entry in the Forum FAQ points to one of the more infamous discussions within this Forum structure (there are several) I could say I've got the time, but ... I'd rather point out that there's nothing new here to debate.

[the vicar]

personally, I still wonder about the effectiveness of reporting. sure, it does SOME good, but I just don't get any feedback that it really matters, other than a bunch of loyalists who tout that it does help. I have stated previously that I have been reporting for over three years, probably closer to 5, and in that timeperiod I have received maybe a handful of replies from ISP's regarding my reports. meanwhile I still see the same basic offender ISPs over and over in my reports. it can become very frustrating thinking that these sys admins may not care at all and are simply routing my reports to the trash and never actually acting on the reports...

sigh...

[ufo-joe]

I suggest that additional pressure (supplementing Spamcop's efforts) should be applied to the worst offenders. I recently posted the following letter to the Chinese Embassy in London. If everyone complained to their Chinese embassy in the same vein, perhaps they would act on the matter:

28186[/snapback]

Well, 2 months later and I can say confidently that ny received spam from China is down by around 80%. Of course, I can't be sure it has anything to do with my letter.

In trying to identify the next most significant spam source, I have been unable to do so - I get roughly equal quantities from Russia, Brazil, Spain, Italy, France and the USA and less significant amounts from elsewhere. I will try writing to an embassy again when any particular source becomes more irritating than the others (most probably Russia, where I keep getting spam in Cyrillic text from! - what a waste of effort and bandwidth).

Joe