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Is it really doing any good?

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personally, I still wonder about the effectiveness of reporting.  sure, it does SOME good, but I just don't get any feedback that it really matters, other than a bunch of loyalists who tout that it does help.  I have stated previously that I have been reporting for over three years, probably closer to 5, and in that timeperiod I have received maybe a handful of replies from ISP's regarding my reports.  meanwhile I still see the same basic offender ISPs over and over in my reports.  it can become very frustrating thinking that these sys admins may not care at all and are simply routing my reports to the trash and never actually acting on the reports...

sigh...

29958[/snapback]

But your reports also go into the statistics for the blocklist which helps many people filter their email effectively. It takes a while for ISPs to realize that they need to adapt to every new spammer trick to get around the filters and blocklists. Now that misdirected bounces can be reported, there are not nearly as many posts about them - from either receivers or senders.

Miss Betsy

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Well...I'm already getting tired of reporting spam, coming into my MASTER Road Runner account. It seems to be doing no good. The same damn messages, with even the same subject, and almost same body. The only difference between them is links in the body, and of course different IP addresses for the servers being used to send the spam.

I hate to be negative, but it's a lost cause. Spammers just have use of hundreds, if not thousands of comprimised servers. You report one, and then they get a hold of three more. So, if things don't get better in a week or so, I'm giving up reporting. I'll just abandon my master account, and use one of my Road Runner secondary accounts. And if those start receiving spam, I'll just delete the account, and make a new one. Unfortunately, I can't change my master account. So it will obviously keep receiving spam, but I won't know it, since I will never access it again. I will just let my MASTER account fill up with spam. Obviously Road Runner does nothing to block it, so it's now going to use up space on their servers, by just sitting in my account. So right back at you Road Runner and spammers!

If there was a more automated way at reporting spam I would continue reporting. But having to forward the spam, and then log into spam cop, to report EACH PIECE, takes too much time that I don't have anymore.

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Well...I'm already getting tired of reporting spam, <snip>

If there was a more automated way at reporting spam I would continue reporting. But having to forward the spam, and then log into spam cop, to report EACH PIECE, takes too much time that I don't have anymore.

31577[/snapback]

Sorry to hear that. It does take time, but it does have an effect. in other threads in this forum:

http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...pic=1456&st=150

http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...pic=1456&st=151

I have reported over 200 spam so far this month. In addition to SC I also report manualy to software venders, FDA, treas.gov or sec.gov depending on the content of the spam. If you give up they win.

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Merged Kojote's posting into this existing Topic/Discussion .. advised via PM of the Merge/Move ...

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If you do decide to use a secondary account for your email, if you can, use a name that contains alphanumeric characters that can't be guessed easily by dictionary spammers. That helps a lot on cutting down spam.

Also, only use your new account for correspondence. Tell friends and relatives to send any FW: FW's to the old account as well as greeting cards. And use the old account for any time you want to enter an email address on the internet. Depending on what kind of email reader you use, you can whitelist your regular correspondents that might send greeting cards or otherwise use your email address on the internet so that their email will be easily seen among the spam. Usually if you purchase something, the confirmation email comes in immediately so that you can see it and file it.

Then you won't have problems with spam. If you don't delete it every once in a while, I expect your mailbox will start bouncing as full.

Miss Betsy

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MASTER Road Runner account ... I'll just abandon my master account, and use one of my Road Runner secondary accounts. ... I will just let my MASTER account fill up with spam.

31577[/snapback]

FYI, per Road Runner Help & Member Services - E-mail:
Each customer receives 10 MB of storage space per e-mail account. If you have more then 10 MB of e-mail stored on the Road Runner server, you will receive a notification that you have exceeded the size limit. Any new e-mail sent to that account may be returned to the sender. Any messages that have been stored on the Road Runner server for more then 60 days will be automatically deleted. Check your e-mail setting to ensure that you are removing your incoming e-mail from our server and downloading the messages directly to your computer.
Testing has shown that the actual level between getting a "You are Over Quota" email and getting a bounce due to "Reason: Over quota" is between 19.8MB and 23.8MB, and is probably 20.0MB. Also note that only the master account gets "Trracks Online" newsletters and service and support email messages.

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FYI, per Road Runner Help & Member Services - E-mail:Testing has shown that the actual level between getting a "You are Over Quota" email and getting a bounce due to "Reason: Over quota" is between 19.8MB and 23.8MB, and is probably 20.0MB.  Also note that only the master account gets "Trracks Online" newsletters and service and support email messages.

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Sorry again for being negative. SpamCop is a good service to the community. I just won't have much time anymore to report manually. Starting a new job in a week, plus other things going on in my life. For a couple of months, I kept on reporting almost every day. Some days it did look like it helped, as spam stopped coming in. But then it started up again. I also reported all my spam to the FTC and Road Runner. What I hate, is that us users don't get any feedback. We don't know if the spammers are actually being shut down or not. I've tried in the past, filling my master RR account with about 40-50MB of attachments. I let it sit there for two weeks. It did give an overquota message. But when I checked the account using webmail interface, spam and other email was still arriving. So nothing was being bounced or rejected.

I just wish there was an alternative to SMTP. This whole protocol should be scrapped and replaced by something more secure. Users should NOT be able to fake email addresses or their IP address. The client computer should not be able to change anything, besides writing text. Client to server should be secure. Why is this so hard to implement? No one is taking an initiative to develop a new protocol and new secure email messaging system.

Edited by Kojote

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Users should NOT be able to fake email addresses or their IP address. The client computer should not be able to change anything, besides writing text. Client to server should be secure. Why is this so hard to implement? No one is taking an initiative to develop a new protocol and new secure email messaging system.

31612[/snapback]

Actually there are several initiatives - with the Anti-spam Research Group being an umbrella for research into it. However coming up with a solution that does not break existing email systems (bye bye, Challenge Response), allows for legitimate bulk postings like mailing lists (bye bye, E-Postage), cannot be subverted by spammers (bye bye, Sender Policy Framework) and can make a difference without requiring deployment on 60% or more of the world's SMTP servers is, shall we say, "non-trivial".

However spammers' tactics are changing and that is the biggest indication that the likes of SpamCop are making a difference. They now rely on compromised PCs to send email, are increasingly using other PCs as relays for their websites, are hijacking existing webservers rather than setting up their own and are having to respell every product they sell (not seen anything for plain viagra for a while - it's all v1agr0a or vlaGr&). All this increases their costs and lowers their profits (it's a wonder there are people dumb enough to buy as a result of some of the spam I've seen) so it's just a case of when the majority of spamgangs start losing money...

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There are alternatives to e-mail. Some better than others, but none are globally acceptable as a replacement.

What I'm referring to is instant messaging. These applications are quite popular, not as wrought w/spam as e-mail and achieve the same basic functionality, and then some...

However, Paranoid in his/her not so paranoid idssertation explained the state of affairs quite well, IMO.

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...but I have to know if all of the time I, as well as many many others, spend reporting spam actually has some kind of positive effect. I apologize if this is listed somewhere else within the forum.

The only reason I ask this is because from where I'm sitting, the whole issue with spam seems to be getting worse over time...not better. I thought at least part of the purpose of the Can-spam Act of 2003 was to "punish" spammers. To me, it seems - though I obviously can't prove - that a large amount of ISPs take no action...and that really frosts my a**.

Thanks...

Andy

Moderator Note: In Andy's defense, this post was Moved/Merged into this existing Topic/Discussion. Though not sure why it was posted into the "Reporting Help forum section, the Lounge is also set to only display the last 30 days of traffic, so this wouldn't have shown up there either unless Andy had chosen to manipulate the controls at the bottom of the page ot magically come up with the right words to search on to find this existing Topic ....

Edited by Wazoo

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...but I have to know if all of the time I, as well as many many others, spend reporting spam actually has some kind of positive effect.  I apologize if this is listed somewhere else within the forum.

33191[/snapback]

Well, the reporting works for me - but as a means for keeping my mailbox clean, and reducing the load on our mailservers. For my customers the benefit is that it keeps our costs lower and thus we can keep our prices to them lower as well.

As a means for punishing the spammers... I guess block lists in general are a nuisance. The law is the means for punishing spammers, at best we can only inconvenience them by blocklists.

But my mailbox is thankfully free of junk.

Andrew

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I just stumbled across this thread and want to add my experience, for what it's worth.

First, I'm really careful with my main e-mail address. I don't send it to every web site that asks for one. I have other (disposable) addresses that I also use.

Second, I have read other folks who say that even with the best precautions they can think of, they still get lots of spam, and there's the impression that if you let the spammers know your address is "live" you will just get more.

I don't remember exactly when I did this, but certainly more than six months ago, I turned off the munging option, so when I report spam my actual SpamCop email address goes into the report (at least, that's how I understand it). I braced myself for an onslaught of spam.

So far, if anything, I am getting less spam -- certainly not more.

I don't know why, but I assume that more of my reports are getting through to ISPs (no more "xxx doesn't accept munged reports"). Maybe more of the spammers are getting shut down. Maybe some spammers are getting smart and purging spamcop.net addresses from their lists.

Anyway, while my experience doesn't prove anything, the fact that sending in un-munged reports did not increase my spam load seems to support the idea that reporting has a negative effect on the spammers.

While I would not hesitate to do it again, I don't want to be responsible for anyone who turns off munging and gets buried under an avalanche of spam. But my actual experience suggests that the avalanche will not happen.... Your call.

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While I would not hesitate to do it again, I don't want to be responsible for anyone who turns off munging and gets buried under an avalanche of spam. But my actual experience suggests that the avalanche will not happen.... Your call.

33214[/snapback]

My actual experience suggests the same.

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While I would not hesitate to do it again, I don't want to be responsible for anyone who turns off munging and gets buried under an avalanche of spam. But my actual experience suggests that the avalanche will not happen.... Your call.

33214[/snapback]

I had a similar experience when I decided to leave munging on but to unmunge whenever I would otherwise get the refuses to accept munged reports message.

So effectively I munge for the majority and unmunge when otherwse the report would be rejected.

Andrew

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I've gotten into the habbit of sending reports directly to isp's myself.

I don't munge. I may have had an increase in spam because of this, but that's a *grey* area, because there is no way to actually correlate spam volume to real world activities, other than guesstimation.

It didn't seem like the volume of spam increased because of self reporting.

It did seem like the volume of spam substantially increased when I tried unsubscribing from sapmmers via their links. I was getting so much, I figured it couldn't get worse. I was wrong :ph34r:

All of my isp's are using blocking lists, so the volume of spam I recieve has returned to about the level of 3-4 years ago. :-/

On the bright side, reporting spam directly, I get a few spits of good news.

These guys impressed me, but they may be over eager to shutdown spammers. none-the-less one report and bing-bang-boom, resolved. Tho this address did resolve to 2 other isps as well as this one (I think).

It's somewhat unsual for a spamer to host one domain on mutiple isp's.

Dear Sir,

thank you for contacting Key-Systems GmbH with this issue.

We have immediately deactivated the user account and domain names.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further question.

With kindest regards,

Your Team [at] domaindiscount24.com Dear Sir,

thank you for contacting Key-Systems GmbH with this issue.

We have immediately deactivated the user account and domain names.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further question.

With kindest regards,

Your Team [at] domaindiscount24.com

---

Key-Systems GmbH

Prager Ring 4-12

Gebäude 5

D-66482 Zweibrücken

Tel:+49 (0) 6332-791860

Fax:+49 (0) 6332-791861

Email: support [at] domaindiscount24.com

www.Key-Systems.net

www.domaindiscount24.com

www.RRPproxy.net

www.Key-Fashion.de

www.domains.cn

(lol munged here)

joe******[at]******.com schrieb:

> This domain was referenced in unsolicited e-mail

>

> Domain:         earthenedvessels.com

> hosted address: 81.3.43.252

...

> Subject:  re[19]

>

> "Ci-iallis Sof-tabs" is better than Pfizer V-iiaggrra

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Hi to anyone who reads this.

I'm being bombed out of existence - typically 15 spam mails for every genuine one. We're talking hundreds of spam emails per day. Life is becoming very tedious. I'm sure you've heard this before.

So - I'm brand new to SpamCop. Sounds like a bl##dy good idea, and I've been religiously filing spam reports for the last 3 days - then a thought crossed my mind .... am I jumping through hoops for nothing ? Is this actually a waste of time ?

So I'd very much like to know "Does reporting spam work in practice ?" and "How does anyone know this ?" - well, short of the quantity of spam drying up in individual Inboxes ?

Are there any statistics *proving* that reporting is effective ? I can't find anything in a quick search of the FAQs.

It occurs to me that more people might report spam if there was some demonstrative *proof* that reporting actually works in practice.

I'd love to rid myself - and others too - of this parasitic activity.

Over to you ....

Colin

Moderator Action: Post was merged into this existing Topic/Discussion PM sent to advise of this Move/Merge

Edited by Wazoo

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I've been religiously filing spam reports for the last 3 days - then a thought crossed my mind ....  am I jumping through hoops for nothing ?  Is this actually a waste of time ?

So I'd very much like to know "Does reporting spam work in practice ?" and "How does anyone know this ?" - well, short of the quantity of spam drying up in individual Inboxes ?

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Hi Colin!

Welcome along...

You can read the many posts in these forums which address the very points you raise.

Suffice to say that there are two steps to tackling spam with Spamcop. The first is reporting. That seems to be what you've started to do. That process builds the evidence which feeds the SpamCop blocklist.

The second part if using the blocklist to filter the spam out of your mailbox.

Doing the first is great for those, like myself, who use the blocklist. So thank you for taking time to do that.

To benefit you'll need to either use an ISP that employs the blocklist to tackle the incoming spam problem or invest in a SpamCop flat-rate Email account and use that to do you filtering.

My experience is that I get no more than two or three unsolicited junk Emails in my mailbox in a month - the rest get filtered off and I then go through the process of reporting them to do my bit to keep the statistics fresh.

Thanks for helping to tackle spam.

Andrew

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Hi Colin!

Welcome along...

You can read the many posts in these forums which address the very points you raise.

<snip>

33564[/snapback]

...Some of which are in this very thread:
  • Wazoo 24872[/snapback]
  • shmengie 24880[/snapback]
  • Jeff G 25054[/snapback]
  • Jeff G 28214[/snapback]
  • Paranoid2000 31613[/snapback]

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I've been using Spamcop for many years, and reckon it's the best $30 a year I spend on the Internet. I reckon on receiving about 100 spams and maybe 10-20 valid e-mails a day, and Spamcop catches 95%+ of the spam.

There are just two spammers who never seem to get blacklisted, but who are behind almost every spam that reaches my "real" mailbox - forwarded there by Spamcop, after filtering.

Those two are Verizon.net and Comcast.net. I'm not sure where they are based (I suspect the USA), and I really do not understand why they don't get blacklisted.

I just reported 4 spams that made it through Spamcop. Guess what - all 4 for Verizon.

Hey, Spamcop, how about these two? Why are they exempt?

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Those two are Verizon.net and Comcast.net. I'm not sure where they are based (I suspect the USA), and I really do not understand why they don't get blacklisted.

34526[/snapback]

These are major US ISPs which provide connectivity for thousands of users. Almost certainly what has happened is that you have been sent email directly from a PC that has been hijacked by malware and is being used as a spam zombie.
Hey, Spamcop, how about these two? Why are they exempt?

34526[/snapback]

They won't be if enough people report them - but if a spammer is using a network of thousands of zombie PCs, each will be sending less spam and therefore has a lower chance of hitting enough SpamCop reporters to go on the blacklist.

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I've been using Spamcop for many years, and reckon it's the best $30 a year I spend on the Internet. I reckon on receiving about 100 spams and maybe 10-20 valid e-mails a day, and Spamcop catches 95%+ of the spam.

34526[/snapback]

Hi, Keith,

...Great, thanks for mentioning that. It give us other SpamCop users a good feeling! :) <g>

There are just two spammers who never seem to get blacklisted, but who are behind almost every spam that reaches my "real" mailbox - forwarded there by Spamcop, after filtering.

Those two are Verizon.net and Comcast.net. I'm not sure where they are based (I suspect the USA), and I really do not understand why they don't get blacklisted.

<snip>

Hey, Spamcop, how about these two? Why are they exempt?

34526[/snapback]

...No one is exempt, as far as I know. The SpamCop blocklist doesn't list internet domains (verizon.net and comcast.net are internet domains), it lists IP addresses that are identified as the spam source by the SpamCop parser. These are large providers with many outgoing e-mail servers, one or more of which is likely to be listed at any one time (I'm guessing both because Verizon and Comcast are so large that it's easy for spammers to get service from them or to trojan clueless users' machines and because they seem to be slow at shutting down the spamming) but probably not all.

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No doubt those in North America would lose much valid mail if they blocked Comcast and Verizon but for those of us "elsewhere" it is a possible option. SenderBase without parameters http://www.senderbase.org/ returns the "Top Senders by Domain", those two always score highly and searching these pages for their names reveals they are not particularly effective :P at keeping spammers out. Once I determined that I never received regular mail from those providers, I instituted top level blocks through my provider (AT&T) which I figure cut my spam volume by 80% overnight (having an apparently N Am address probably contributed significantly to that). FWIW, my top blocks are:

[Enabled] [Mail] [Comcast Block] IF the RECEIVED field contains "comcast.net" THEN discard the message, stop processing any more rules.

... IF the RECEIVED field contains "kornet.net" THEN discard the message, stop processing any more rules.

... IF the RECEIVED field contains ".rr.com" THEN discard the message, stop processing any more rules.

... IF the RECEIVED field contains "(unknown[" THEN discard the message, stop processing any more rules.

... IF the RECEIVED field contains "verizon." THEN discard the message, stop processing any more rules.

... IF the RECEIVED field contains "(localhost[127.0.0.1]) by prserv.net" THEN forward the message to "postmaster [at] attglobal.net" THEN stop processing filters

There's a history with the last one, don't try this at home - attglobal is my provider and denied for years that such messages reached me but if they did they were my fault somehow. Actually some sort of server exploit I think but always spam or perhaps some sort of misdirected bounce in any event.

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If I had the time, I would learn how to run a server. And the first thing I would do is to block comcast!!! However, I do want my correspondents to know why I am blocking them so I would have to have a server - just filtering them out doesn't /really/ help stop spam. The people using that server need to know that they are supporting spam.

It is really so simple. When people behave badly, one gives them the 'cut direct' according to Miss Manners. And if people don't like it, then they have the option to change.

Miss Betsy

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Miss Betsy is, as (almost+) always, right - I reported everything until the activity was consuming my life - then I blocked to get to manageable levels. If you can live with your volume, keep on reporting it all.

... Hey, Spamcop, how about these two? Why are they exempt?

34526[/snapback]

They are not exempt, it might seem that way for an individual IP address but witness http://www.spamcop.net/w3m?action=checkblock&ip=68.60.23.208 with further listings noted at the bottom, then look at http://www.spamcop.net/w3m?action=hoshame#domsum and try to find a time when comcast.net isn't in the top half dozen. Hmmm ... verizon.net barely makes the list right now (domains of the top 200 reported addresses by volume) - but that is still something less than "faint praise".

+ IIRC she once attributed to Winston Churchill a quote by George Bernard Shaw :D (but I could be wrong).

Edited by Farelf

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