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Is it really doing any good?

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... wordsmiths want the precise word to be used in their area of expertise which is communication.
Trouble is peer to peer - P2P - has entered the terminology/jargon in network circles and may seem a little intimidating to those who are not technically proficient whenever and however it is used. The basic technical meaning, in fact, is no different from the standard English meaning (equal rank or hierarchical level) and any inference drawn of absolute equality is entirely fanciful (even the archtypical "jury of your peers" has a primus inter pares - first among equals = foreman - in some jurisdictions). But as Miss Betsy and others properly point out, not everyone understands it exactly the same way - and it is those who understand it differently that we most need to address, if in fact there are numbers of them and that is something we can't know if we keep scaring them off. Edited by Farelf

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I just started reporting my spam through SpamCop about a month ago. After I started sending the spam reports, I started getting about 4 times the volume of spam that I used to get before I started reporting. Since Spamcop requires me to manually verify each email before sending the reports this process now takes a lot of my time. I believe that SpamCop is a good service but it has really made my situation worse. Like most people, I was hoping that by using this service I could REDUCE the amount of spam that I recieve by getting some of the spammers that send me daily junk mails blacklisted. But this hasen't happened. Now I just get more spam than before.

Edited by nipsnertz

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...Please see thread "Is it really doing any good?" for much more on that subject. The basic answer to the issue you pose in your subject line is, I believe: post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. In other words, reporting via SpamCop probably didn't increase the amount of spam you received -- spam is growing by leaps and bounds every day. :( <frown>

...As to it taking a lot of time, just report what you have the time and inclination to report. Every little bit helps! Thanks! :) <g>

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I just started reporting my spam through SpamCop about a month ago. After I started sending the spam reports, I started getting about 4 times the volume of spam that I used to get before I started reporting.

Subject matter covered in many places already. Moved this posting to the Lounge, Merged it with an existing Topic that covers a lot of the same ground. PM sent to advise of the Move/Merge.

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I just started reporting my spam through SpamCop about a month ago. After I started sending the reports, I started getting about 4 times the volume of spam that I used to get before I started reporting. Since Spamcop requires me to manually verify each email before sending the reports this process now takes a lot of my time. I believe that SpamCop is a good service but it has really made my situation worse. Like most people, I was hoping that by using this service I could REDUCE the amount of spam that I recieve by getting some of the spammers that send me daily junk mails blacklisted. But this hasen't happened. Now I just get more spam than before.

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Wazoo, I just got your email and did not realize that you had merged my earlier post. Would it be possible to leave this post in this forum. I realize that it is also discussed elsewhere but I would like to see if I can get some help or feed back from current readers of this forum. The thread that you moved me to is buried in a 9 page discussion that might not get noticed. Thanks I appreciate your help. Can you offer any suggestions that might help me to reduce the volume of spam that I keep getting ?

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Wazoo, I just got your email and did not realize that you had merged my earlier post. Would it be possible to leave this post in this forum. I realize that it is also discussed elsewhere but I would like to see if I can get some help or feed back from current readers of this forum. The thread that you moved me to is buried in a 9 page discussion that might not get noticed. <snip>
Hi, nipsnertz!

...Can't speak for others but the way I use these fora I will see activity in both threads. I suspect that's true for most of us, so from my perspective there really isn't a need for this thread.

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Wazoo, I just got your email and did not realize that you had merged my earlier post. Would it be possible to leave this post in this forum.

"This forum" is Titled: SpamCop Reporting Help and defined as: A forum to help users with reporting spam using the SpamCop Parsing and Reporting Service. Questions about the SpamCop Email System and/or Accounts should be directed to the SpamCop Email System & Accounts Forum. Questions about "your e-mail Blocked by SpamCop" should be directed to the SpamCop Blocklist Help Forum. Etc. etc., etc.

You make no claim of a "problem" with the Parsing & Reporting system. But as your question also doesn't fit into most of the other Titled forum sections, the Lounge is seen and used as the catch-all for these non-specific types if issues / queries.

I realize that it is also discussed elsewhere but I would like to see if I can get some help or feed back from current readers of this forum. The thread that you moved me to is buried in a 9 page discussion that might not get noticed.

This forum's "default" display mode is to move Topics with recent traffic to the top of the Topic list within each Forum section ... the Forum indicator changes states to show that there is unread material within that Forum section. Even folks that jump in the "View New Posts" button to wade through posrings that way will also pull up these / your new posts.

The reason for "burying" your postings at the end of a 9-page discussion was also to allow you to get a better understanding of some of the issues involved, and hopefilly get you to the point where you could ask a "better" question.

Thanks I appreciate your help. Can you offer any suggestions that might help me to reduce the volume of spam that I keep getting ?

Suggestions exist in a lot of places. The catch is that you haven't yet provided the fuller picture of what and how you are reporting. Whether it's simple timing in that you decided to start reporting just as your "known good address" had been sold to yet another batch of "wanna-get-rich-quick-the-easy-way" idiots or you haven't read enough to know that you are handling your spam in an unsecure fashion .... you may have 'approved' a report to be sent directly to a 'spammer control' address who then passed your unmunged data on to other cohorts ... again, there are simply too many factors involved and you've not actually provided any specifics.

Let's just point out that this "SpamCop reporting has increased my spam" is offset by others that make the claim the "SpamCop reporting has brought my spam load down to next to nothing" .... Personally, there is very rarely a "direct connection" in either case, but ..... by running with your accusation, as I started using the SpamCop.net toolset back in 1998, one would think that I couldn't use any of my e-mail accounts by now. Yet, I have several accounts that date back to prior to even that time, and they're still functinal.

This last "new" Topic was oce again merged into the same discuaaion that the last one was .....

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Try downloading spampal.com, it's free and it integrates into your e-mail client using SpamCop and other lists to filter out spam... You need to get a spamcop account so you can report fast (two clicks) all the spam and simply drag and drop it into the heldmail folder in the e-mail client...Much faster. Your reporting helps server admins identify spam on their networks and hopefully, if responsible fix the problem.. Unfortunately there are many that are complient about spam so reporting will never stop spam from their networks..

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I am "bumping" this thread because I think its extremely important.... In fact I think it should be made into a 'pinned' thread. or posted on Spamcop's home page.

I for one, believe that reporting spam is NOT doign anything to reduce my spam emails. In fact I am pretty convinced it is increasing it.

The reason I believe this, is that I have targetted a particularly virulant spammer sending me offers for little blue pills, and I get more now than I ever did before I started reporting, while the other spams I receive do not appear to have increased...

Is this proof? no... but its what I believe....

However, reporting spam is like doing your civic duty, and if you want to contribute to the neighbourhood this is a good way to do it.

I am also going to look at spampal and try to find a product that will help me block spam at the door instead of leaving me open to triggering HTML scripts and validating my email addresses without even trying...

thanks for the information everyone, and lets hope we eventually take back our Internet (and our telephones)

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;) I think you have a point, besides ...everytime I report kornet and the like I get port scans ..and I have had to deal with hacking attempts as well.. Civic duty or not reporting does help people that use SCBL in a blocking fashion but those people depend on reporters to generate that list, so if there were no reporters there would be no listings. Bottom line is that feeding the block lists will cause some grief to the spammers no matter how you look at it.. Some of us are more diligent and feed the spam to law enforcement agencies and sooner or later the law catches up with some spammers which hopefully would work out as a deterrent in the long run.. Edited by dra007

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<snip>

leaving me open to triggering HTML scripts and validating my email addresses...

<snip>

...This is exactly why I submit my spam via e-mail rather than opening it and using the web spam submittal form!

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...This is exactly why I submit my spam via e-mail rather than opening it and using the web spam submittal form!
Certainly is the safest and quickest way to deal with a batch but for the odd one or two spam, I believe Mozilla users need have no hesitation in, one by one, using "View" "Message Source" (Ctrl+U) to open a code window showing headers and the code for the body, any attachments etc., select all (Ctrl+A) and copy (Ctrl+C) then paste (Ctrl+V) into the submittal form window. Nothing is rendered or activated in that code window, it is pure text. Also a good way to check anything you are uncertain of whether goodmail/badmail, without puting the load on the poor old parser. IMO

[same would apply to Netscape users I guess - certainly used to, I haven't used the current version but it is even more closely tied to Mozilla IIUC and I imagine it retains the View Source feature]

Edited by Farelf

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I for one, believe that reporting spam is NOT doign anything to reduce my spam emails. In fact I am pretty convinced it is increasing it.

Reporting does not do anything to reduce your spam - unless, of course, some report does go to a server admin who closes a hole. However, there are so many holes out there that it doesn't make a large dent.

I, too, think that reporting via spamcop increases your spam because the spammers use anything - including reports - to add to their lists.

However, reporting spam is like doing your civic duty, and if you want to contribute to the neighbourhood this is a good way to do it.

Reporting spam, either via spamcop or manually, is like picking up litter. If everyone did it, there would be dramatic results. But even when only one person picks up litter while walking the dog, sometimes he can see that a certain area remains 'clean' for a period of time.

What we need is more responsible netizens!

Miss Betsy

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Dear Wazzo et. al.:

At this point, I'm so fed up with spam, I don't even care if somebody wants to call me stupid and answer me rudely. At the very least I might learn something that would be helpful, and I'd know that someone is actually listening.

I was directed to SpamCop by my (mom & pop) ISP service as they claim they can not do "anything" about spam that comes from outside of their system. I have since learned by reading here on SpamCop that this is just an excuse by them and yes, I will be seeking a new ISP in the near future. (A whole story in itself....It's like I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere, ISP wise, however I live only 90 miles from NYC. Politics and a lawsuit from a well known telephone company here in PA put my long anticipated locally supplied high speed connection on hold.)

I joined SpamCop, read up on the topic at the FTC site, and made a (small) donation to SpamCop. I started using SpamCop and with every forwarded e-mail copied the FTC.

It has been two months now and I am still receiving the same spam from the same people. As a matter of fact, I have now recently received two phish e-mails (from the same idiot for two different businesses but with the same misspelled words!) and the spam has actually increased.

I came to the SpamCop site to hopefully learn more. I spent 10 years on Wall Street and am currently working in a high tech biotech medical area. I may not be the brightest bulb in the pack, but I do consider myself reasonably intelligent...I gotta' tell you, this site ain't user friendly at all. You people have more written rules than the SEC and the FDA. What exactly are your enforcement abilities?

When does the spam stop? What more am I supposed to be doing? Any reasonable ideas will be appreciated......

Fire away.

Bob Allen

P.S. I'd put my e-mail address here, but I can't find those directions again for the dummy e-mail address to use.

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Welcome.

You may want to start by reading the following http://forum.spamcop.net/scwik/SpamCopWhatIs and following the various links to the specific items you are interested in.

I will assume that you are using the SpamCop reporting service. If that is all that you are doing you will NOT see the desired result of less spam in your inbox. You will be helping others reduce the spam they recieve.

To reduce the amount of spam the you personally recieve, you must make use of some filtering/blocking services.

The following FAQ entry may also be of interest to you Why did my spam load increase after I started Reporting?

Good luck with your battle with spam.

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If you have done your homework you'd have known that SpamCop does abslutely nothing to stop the spam you get. If anything many of us have experienced a sharp increase in spam since reporting. However, reporting, you contribute to a list that can be used to filter and tag spam as spam, sort it out of your inbox to a spam folder which you can either delete or use for reporting. There are many lookups programs that use SCBL, personally I use spampal, it's free and can be easily downloaded and installed.

Edited by dra007

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I gotta' tell you, this site ain't user friendly at all. You people have more written rules than the SEC and the FDA.

???? There are but a small handful of "rules" .... If I had to guess, perhaps you are talking about stumbling across a FAQ ... which is a list of Frequently Asked Questions that have been put onto a single-page "here" with answers procided for those questions .. this is in hopes that folks don't need to retype the same answers to the same questions asked every day ....

What exactly are your enforcement abilities?

Answered within the SpamCop FAQ .. desceibed by the page seen when the link Start Here - before you make your first Post is followed .... the WhatIsSpamCop page in he Wiki .... on and on ..the information is far from hidden ....

When does the spam stop? What more am I supposed to be doing? Any reasonable ideas will be appreciated......

When you can convince enough idiots out there to quit sending their money to the spammers, filling out the silly forms, signing up for the free/great deals, quit responding to the phish e-mails, quit opening up those file attachments that then compromise their computer so as to add new resources for the spammers to send more spew .... maybe another couple of days, wouldn't you think?

P.S. I'd put my e-mail address here, but I can't find those directions again for the dummy e-mail address to use.

Here again, if I had to guess what you're talking about, it would be the suggestion to use the nobody[at]devnull.spamcop.net address when configuring your newsreader prior to posting into the newsgroups (which this is not) .. but your lack of specifics leave others baffled by just what you might be talking about.

Right now, I'm trying to come up with a reason not to somply merge this into the existing monster Topic found at Is it really doing any good?, We keep reporting and reporting, but... .... actually, I believe I will do just that ...

PM sent to advise of this move/merge ....

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Hello All:

Thank you for your responses and the information. I now realize that part of my misunderstanding was in the perception of what SpamCop is. It is recommended by my ISP for "reporting spam" and while I certainly want to bless you for efforts in this area and Thank You! for these good intentions, the implication is that "reporting" is followed by some sort of action. ( And after reading through a great number of posts in the "Is it really working" section, this is a common misconception held by many of us newcomers to the SpamCop tool.)

My immediate issue is how can a particular e-mail address ( my personal home one) be bombarded with spam as it is not hung out on the internet anyplace nor is it open anyplace on the internet.

I do use a commerical anti-spam program, and two disposable e-mail addresses which don't receive any spam.

So here's what I've learned: SpamCop is a noble effort and I certainly support your efforts. I'm not convinced that it will have any real effects as it appears you are simply a "usergroup" and not what I had origionally thought (my misunderstanding), and I apologise for that. I do not believe I will ever be able to do any of the items Wazzo suggests and yes, I do realize that response was a tad tounge in cheek.

Warm regards,

Bob Allen

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My immediate issue is how can a particular e-mail address ( my personal home one) be bombarded with spam as it is not hung out on the internet anyplace nor is it open anyplace on the internet.
Actually it does hang out all over the internet. It is in the address book of many of the people who send you mail which gets picked up when their computers are compromised. It is in the list of every business you ever gave it too many of which do make alternate uses of that address. For the fun of it, do a google search on you email address and see what you find, you may be greatly supprised. It also gets mail from those who do random name mailings to various domains, so if your user name portion of your address is a common one, you are likely to be getting spam using that method.

SpamCop is much more than a "user group" but that term could be used if you are talking about the SpamCop Forums, but you are also right when you say that

I now realize that part of my misunderstanding was in the perception of what SpamCop is......this is a common misconception held by many of us newcomers to the SpamCop tool.)
For more information see: What is SpamCop.net?, a simple introduction with multiple links to additional information.

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Dear Wazzo et. al.:

At this point, I'm so fed up with spam, I don't even care if somebody wants to call me stupid and answer me rudely. At the very least I might learn something that would be helpful, and I'd know that someone is actually listening....

It has been two months now ...

When does the spam stop?...

Bob Allen

_____________________

I've been a paying member for some time (I lose track of it so very easily). I'm not at a work station, or in business...this is my personal account.

Yes, it seemed like a lot of spam was getting thru when I started. But I've learned to listen to ya'll who run & monitor this service...so I use everyblack list SC suggests, I listened to the suggestion to report via 'mole' (which cut down the spam significantly) & I never even open a "Held" email...if I'm curious I read the 'Raw' mail. I used to have a mail account at my ISP who finally began to use that Postini thing - which just filled up with hundreds of pieces of spam perday. I finally just shut it down as too much work for a 'non-pro'. I really only receive a couple of dozen real emails per day...with the same amount of spam on a 'bad' day...but I report each and everyone of them cuz in the long run - that is over the years, not just months, I have noticed a huge difference. Do I still get spam, sure, but if I can be the 'gadfly' to even one spammer, then my day has been made...

So thank you SpamCop and everyone who utilizes them.

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<snip>

When does the spam stop?...

<snip>

Hi, Bob,

...We all share your frustration.

...Actually, contributor BobA5835 asked exactly the same question earlier (see above) and Forum Admin Wazoo answered it. Please see linear post #194, above.

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When does the spam stop?...
When spammers incur a cost (whether in time, bandwidth or money) for a significant portion of the emails they send, making spamming a loss-making operation. The profit margins on sales from those idiots that do reply are significant enough (and there are sadly enough idiots out there) that simply reporting or blocking spam can only partially reduce the load.

As such, there are several techniques that people can adopt to cause some degree of cost to a spammer, whether it is using tools like SpamVampire to leech their websites (increasing their hosting costs), formfillers to supply fake data on "home refinancing" sites or entering fake orders (and valid but false credit card numbers) on "online pharmacies". More information on these techniques can be found at the Kill Spammers forum.

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OK, am spending considerable energy reporting spam. Is there any clear evidence that the reporting of spam is having any impact on overall spam volume?

Thanks

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