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mcleaver

I want to filter on the Domain

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Now I find this forum! I switched about a month ago to using Spamcop mail to protect my kids from spam. But my attempts to get help in the newsgroups I have known for years have been in vain. There is no mention in the Spamcop mail system of this forum for (peer group) support. :-(

For the last five days, my son (7) has been getting spam from or through verio.com.

I have reported all the messages through the old Spamcop (I can't report through the mail system, because the messages all get forwarded to his account). I did try to filter the domains, but it doesn't seem to have the slightest effect. (Mind you, I have started wondering what the diffetrent is between "from " and "sender" in the filters... I am not a nerd and I fear such things as the filters may demand a very deep knowledge of the workings of the system...

WHat's going on/wrong?

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Hi, mcleaver,

...First: since I do not use the SpamCop e-mail system, I am not able to answer your questions.

...Second: if your reason for using SpamCop e-mail is to keep spam from reaching you, you are using the wrong tool!. All SpamCop e-mail does is to filter spam so that it goes into a special "folder" (I believe it's called "Held Mail"). If you actually want spam to not even reach your mailbox then I would suggest you find an e-mail provider that offers that feature. Offhand, I do not know of any but perhaps another SpamCop user who is more knowledgeable will happen by here and help....

...Good luck!

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Now I find this forum! I switched about a month ago to using Spamcop mail to protect my kids from spam. But my attempts to get help in the newsgroups I have known for years have been in vain.

I can admit that your thread there has been active, though have to agree that not all the responses have been "helpful" <g> But, of course, the same thing has been stated about postings here ....

There is no mention in the Spamcop mail system of this forum for (peer group) support. :-(

Not sure how to answer that, as the complaints since this web-based thing was created (end of last year) have largely been that http://www.spamcop.net/help.shtml points most folks "here" rather than the newsgroups.

For the last five days, my son (7) has been getting spam from or through verio.com. I have reported all the messages through the old Spamcop (I can't report through the mail system, because the messages all get forwarded to his account).

"Old SpamCop" ???? Guessing that perhaps you're referring to the "paste-your-spam-into-the-box" web page that has always existed? I'm also pretty sure that the newsgroup response have included the info that reporting spam has no real bearing on "Domain names" .. it's the e-mail sending IP address that can show up o the SpamCopDNSbl for future filtering action, and to get onto that list, the IP in question has to both trip a threshold based on a bit of a mathematical formula and have multiple (user) complaints against it. Worst case spin, millions of spam spew come out of that IP, but only 102 people report it via SpamCop, the rest either send off their own angry e-mail or "just hit delete" ... result being that there isn't enough reporting going on to get this IP over the 2% threshold.

I did try to filter the domains, but it doesn't seem to have the slightest effect. (Mind you, I have started wondering what the diffetrent is between "from " and "sender" in the filters... I am not a nerd and I fear such things as the filters may demand a very deep knowledge of the workings of the system...

WHat's going on/wrong?

I'll defer for now to a couple of others here that know the e-mail side of the house much better than I. Long week-end is over and hoping that when they catch up with their personal things, they'll be along here and enlighten us all with their good advice <g>

What would help a bit is if you could offer up a Tracking URL that would show the path and header content of these particular spams so that any direct answer could be provided explicitly.

I've also changed the Topic Title to more accurately reflect the query you'd like answered. And while doing that, I saw my own Pinned reference to a FAQ-in-Progress .... how about taking a look at http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1895 and see if PeterJ has already got something there to help?

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...Second: if your reason for using SpamCop e-mail is to keep spam from reaching you, you are using the wrong tool!.  All SpamCop e-mail does is to filter spam so that it goes into a special "folder" (I believe it's called "Held Mail").

I *do* use several SpamCop email accounts to greatly reduce the amount of spam that gets to me, so I'm going to disagree with "turetzsr" a little bit. While it's true that the messages caught by the blacklist(s) and by SpamAssassin are routed to the "Held Mail" portion of the SC inbox, those messages won't reach you without you going to get them, so I think that qualifies as keeping spam from reaching you.

I previously had an Earthlink account and was using their filters to catch spam before it reached me, but their filters are only about 50% as effective as the SC system, IMO.

Another issue...filters. The "filters" that you can customize in the SC webmail interface won't work in your situation, because I'm pretty sure they're only activated when someone actually uses the SC webmail system to retrive/manage their email. The options that will actually have an effect on mail passing "through" the SC system are found in the "Options" section of the webmail interface (webmail.spamcop.net). Go there, then click on "SpamCop Tools" and there you'll find options for blacklists and whitelists.

Be sure that in the "email filtering blacklists," section, that the "SpamCop Blacklist" is selected, and I'd also recommend the "Composite Blocking List." You might also try adding some of the others. Your SpamAssassin Limit should be 5 or lower, where the lower the number, the less spam will slip through, but it will probably cause more "false positives."

I've also made limited use of the "personal whitelist" and "personal blacklist" options. For example, if I never wanted to see anything from "verio.com" addresses, I'd simply create a "personal blacklist" entry for "verio.com" -- it's that simple. Just to be clear, that won't stop stuff that coming from other domains that happen to be hosted at Verio, however.

Hope this is helpful.

David T.

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Hi, David!

...Thanks for chipping in. :) <g>

...Second: if your reason for using SpamCop e-mail is to keep spam from reaching you, you are using the wrong tool!.  All SpamCop e-mail does is to filter spam so that it goes into a special "folder" (I believe it's called "Held Mail").

I *do* use several SpamCop email accounts to greatly reduce the amount of spam that gets to me, so I'm going to disagree with "turetzsr"

...It's Steve T (see my sig). turetzsr is just my user id. :) <g>

a little bit. While it's true that the messages caught by the blacklist(s) and by SpamAssassin are routed to the "Held Mail" portion of the SC inbox, those messages won't reach you without you going to get them, so I think that qualifies as keeping spam from reaching you.

<snip>

...If I understand the OP's desire (and that's open to argument :) <g>), that's not sufficient. Her seven-year-old son could go to get the Held Mail, which (again, IIUC) is what she is trying to avoid being possible.

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Hi, David!

...Thanks for chipping in.  :) <g>

No problem.

...It's Steve T (see my sig).  turetzsr is just my user id. :)

Sorry... Hi Steve! :D

...If I understand the OP's desire (and that's open to argument :) <g>), that's not sufficient.  Her seven-year-old son could go to get the Held Mail, which (again, IIUC) is what she is trying to avoid being possible.

Hmmm....I'm not sure that she'd care if it went into Held Mail, because the son is receiving it at another non-SC address, and she could just not give him the password to the SC account and manage his Held Mail on his behalf.

However, it looks as if she's wanting to elminate stuff that comes from Verio-hosted sites, and unless she knows the actual domains, that's too general a parameter.

David T.

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<snip>

I'm not sure that she'd care if it went into Held Mail, because the son is receiving it at another non-SC address, and she could just not give him the password to the SC account and manage his Held Mail on his behalf.

<snip>

...That's quite possibly the case (I see now that I read mcleaver's original post more carefully) although it's still not clear to me.

...mcleaver -- could you clarify -- is David correct? If so, please ignore my reply to you, above (the one that starts, "...First: since I do not use the SpamCop e-mail system, I am not able to answer your questions.").

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If you can live with whitelisting all mail that you want to receive, You can obtain near 100% blocking of spam.

All you have to do is to select block all and only mail that has been white listed will escape the heldmail folder.

The problem is you have to scan the held mail for any new mail that has not been white listed including white listed sources that have changed their address or are using an alternate address.

Earthlink has the same feature but adds a bounce feature that provides a code that must be manually entered and resent which will forward a message that the sender has sent you a message and you can decide if you want to white list them or not reducing the need to scan the held mail.

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For the last five days, my son (7) has been getting spam from or through verio.com.

I have reported all the messages through the old Spamcop (I can't report through the mail system, because the messages all get forwarded to his account). I did try to filter the domains, but it doesn't seem to have the slightest effect.

Hi, mcleaver!

It sounds like you are using the SpamCop email system to "filter" incoming mail to your son's mailbox, and that the "custom filters" you have set don't seem to work.

Your mention of From: and Sender: options makes me wonder whether you are using the "Blacklist" or the "Custom Filters" in SpamCop webmail. The Blacklist ought to prevent any spam which says it's sent from verio.com getting through (or indeed any other sender you add to the list). The Custom Filters will only do this when you are actually viewing your webmail inbox, i.e. they won't usually do anything to block verio.com mail from your son's mailbox.

More detail at this thread: Webmail filtering - custom filters.

(If you're using the blacklist and not the custom filters, I can't think what's going wrong. I agree that the way the custom filters "work" seems counter-intuitive, and they've been discussed here recently).

Cheers, Nick

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The best way to stop spam is to change your email address to one that is not easily guessed by the 'dictionary' spammers. That is done by using alpha numeric characters mc7cl3av3r. It is a nuisance for many people to change addresses, but for a 7 year old, it shouldn't be too difficult.

Then forbid him to enter that address anywhere on the internet. If he uses a newsgroup or chat room, then mung the address in the preferences so that it doesn't show. I can't think of any place that a 7 year old would want to enter an address, but if he does, then he has to ask your permission. I would think that any site fit for a 7 year old would probably be trustworthy as to email addresses.

Miss Betsy

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<snip>

I'm not sure that she'd care if it went into Held Mail, because the son is receiving it at another non-SC address, and she could just not give him the password to the SC account and manage his Held Mail on his behalf.

<snip>

...That's quite possibly the case (I see now that I read mcleaver's original post more carefully) although it's still not clear to me.

...mcleaver -- could you clarify -- is David correct? If so, please ignore my reply to you, above (the one that starts, "...First: since I do not use the SpamCop e-mail system, I am not able to answer your questions.").

Mcleaver wants his kids to have spam free mail... so I send it through the Spamcop filters. I could give them K9 or some such, but then all the rubbish would end up in the deleted items folder, which is not really what I call filtered. Still visible for prying eyes.

I forward from their address to spaocop and from there back to their receiving pop accounts (could be SC too).

Rgds

Martin

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<snip>

I'm not sure that she'd care if it went into Held Mail, because the son is receiving it at another non-SC address, and she could just not give him the password to the SC account and manage his Held Mail on his behalf.

<snip>

...That's quite possibly the case (I see now that I read mcleaver's original post more carefully) although it's still not clear to me.

...mcleaver -- could you clarify -- is David correct? If so, please ignore my reply to you, above (the one that starts, "...First: since I do not use the SpamCop e-mail system, I am not able to answer your questions.").

Mcleaver wants his kids to have spam free mail... so I send it through the Spamcop filters. I could give them K9 or some such, but then all the rubbish would end up in the deleted items folder, which is not really what I call filtered. Still visible for prying eyes.

I forward from their address to spaocop and from there back to their receiving pop accounts (could be SC too).

Rgds

Martin

Hi, Martin,

...Not sure I understand, yet (my fault, I'm sure, not yours!). When the spam goes through the SpamCop filters, it goes into your SpamCop account Held Mail. What's to stop your son from looking there and seeing it?

...David's hypothesis (IIUC) is that you and your son have separate e-mail accounts (he can't get in to yours at all), all e-mail to his account is automatically redirected to yours (a SpamCop account) instead of going into his, is filtered there, and you forward the non-spam back to him. Is David correct?

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Mcleaver wants his kids to have spam free mail... so I send it through the Spamcop filters. I could give them K9 or some such, but then all the rubbish would end up in the deleted items folder, which is not really what I call filtered. Still visible for prying eyes.

I forward from their address to spamcop and from there back to their receiving pop accounts (could be SC too).

Martin -- are you using the Filters (SC webmail => Filters => "Edit your filter rules") or the Blacklist (SC Webmail => Options => SpamCop Tools => "Manage your personal blacklist")?

The Filters don't work (at least, not the way you think they will). But the personal Blacklist does work. Mail from a blacklisted sender won't get to your son. For example, you can blacklist verio.com, after which any mail message that says its Sender has a verio.com address won't get through (it gets dumped to the Held Mail or Trash folder in SC Webmail, not sure which).

If I'm barking up the wrong tree, please let me know. I'm only trying to help, here...

Cheers, Nick

Edited by moonbroth

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Where can I find blacklisting in Spamcop (webmail)?

1) Log in to SpamCop Webmail

2) Click "Options" (middle of the top menu)

3) Click "SpamCop Tools" (top of the Mail Management column)

4) Click "Manage your personal blacklist" (bottom of the list)

5) Click "click here to add to your blacklist"

5) Type e.g. "verio.com" (no quotes) into the topmost empty box.

If you get any forwarded emails where the Sender contains "verio.com" after that, something isn't working right.

Cheers, Nick

Edited by moonbroth

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I've also changed the Topic Title to more accurately reflect the query you'd like answered.

I doubt that covers the topic. How can I change it to something more sensible, like blocking all mail that SPamcop says comes from a verio.com registered domain? I mean - the domains are different (at least six of them) but verio.com registered them all...

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... blocking all mail that SPamcop says comes from a verio.com registered domain? I mean - the domains are different (at least six of them) but verio.com registered them all...

I'm pretty sure Blacklists can't look up who registered a domain and block based on that. They block based on the ostensible Sender of the email (which can be forged). If the incoming mail doesn't have reliable Sender details, then Blacklisting won't work.

Can you tell us what the domains from which you want to block mail are, and also give us examples of the "Sender" lines from some emails you want to block?

NB: If the senders are forged, then blacklisting is not the answer. Accepting only whitelisted mail may be: it would feel "crippled" to me, but then this is a seven-year-old's email we're talking about, right? Whitelisting might not be over the top, under the circumstances.

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I've also changed the Topic Title to more accurately reflect the query you'd like answered.

I doubt that covers the topic. How can I change it to something more sensible, like blocking all mail that SPamcop says comes from a verio.com registered domain? I mean - the domains are different (at least six of them) but verio.com registered them all...

Well, I went with what you started with. The Title you suggest won't fit, for starters ... and asked a number of times in the newsgroups and I know I asked here ... samples of the headers in question my help to get to specifics ... all anyone else knows thus far is your "multiple domains, but all tied to Verio" .... which doesn't help get to any kind of specific answer...

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Your mention of From: and Sender: options makes me wonder whether you are using the "Blacklist" or the "Custom Filters" in SpamCop webmail. The Blacklist ought to prevent any spam which says it's sent from verio.com getting through (or indeed any other sender you add to the list). The Custom Filters will only do this when you are actually viewing your webmail inbox, i.e. they won't usually do anything to block verio.com mail from your son's mailbox.

12927[/snapback]

I would say that it is the "Custom Filters" in SpamCop webmail that mcleaver is having trouble with.

I too, have not been able to filter incoming mail when I set up a filter using the "Sender" parameter. When I use the "From" parameter instead, the desired filtering is accomplished.

Would anyone knowledgeable , please clarify the difference between using "Sender" and "From" when using custom filters in SpamCop webmail? This question was never answered for mcleaver and I am curious as well.

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Would anyone knowledgeable , please clarify the difference between using "Sender" and "From" when using  custom filters in SpamCop webmail?

Those are different header fields, and while most email messages contain a "From" value, only a small number contain a "Sender" (people get confused...thinking that "Sender" is just another name for "From" -- it's not).

So, if you set a filter for "Sender" then the filter doesn't look at the "From" field...it looks for a line like this:

Sender: xyz[at]somedomain.somewhere.com

I have successfully tested a "Sender" filter, so the problem is only with people's confusion between "Sender" and "From."

DT

Edited by DavidT

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