Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
davidll

This service really sucks

Recommended Posts

This service not only sucks, but once again, it is costing me money. Every so often my web host winds up on your system. When this happens I receive NONE of my emails from any of my business sites, including my boat site where I sell products and usually receive emails nearly daily.

The last time this happened I lost a customer who could not get an email through to me asking me if we would be willing to travel out to his location to estimate a job. If it had not been for talking to someone who asked if I had taken care of him, I would never have known. Not that it matters, because he had someone else do that job.

What else can I say except that this ill conceived system sucks?

Well, I guess I could say that people would rahther get a little spam mail (there is a delete button in email) than to lose business, customers and money. I guess I could also say, maybe one of these days if I lose enough money because this system disables my business, perhaps it would be a viable option to take it a step further to the legal system.

I have selected Enable email notification of replies, assuming you don't block your own emails from traveling to their destinations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This service not only sucks, but once again, it is costing me money.  Every so often my web host winds up on your system.  When this happens I receive NONE of my emails from any of my business sites, including my boat site where I sell products and usually receive emails nearly daily. 

16662[/snapback]

Have you even read any of the FAQs on the site? Spamcop blocks nothing. Spamcop simply publishes a list of IP addresses that its users have reported spam as originating from. If you are not getting mail then YOUR ISP is choosing to use this list to block mail. Please note that Spamcop does NOT recommend this and in fact in its own e-mail service simply uses the list to filter mail in to a "Held Mail" folder for further review by the user.

That being said. I have been using the service for a long time and watching this board for a long time, over 99%+ of the people who post messages like yours end up finding out that the server they're using is on the list for quite a legitimate reason. If you would provide us any information at all on the server that you say is blocked, someone here might actually be able to help you.

--Louis

Edited by louisd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you would provide us any information at all on the server that you say is blocked, someone here might actually be able to help you.

I would be surprised if the problem would go away. I have complained to my dial up because of using the list, the last time around. The host can only shrug their shoulders and tell me they have been disabled for 3 days. (and it is disabling even if you refer to it as a list, fact is, my host is disabled and because of the "list" I am disabled).

Nonethess, the host is, as most are, a large host who probably did have a spammer on there. Support at the host told me that they had been listed 4 times in 180 days, but does this mean that everybody has to pay? I would think an improvement to the system would be in order.

Where big hosting companies are concerned, and clients like myself who depend on their website businesses and email are involved, why not institute something different? Why not send the host an email or something letting them know they have a spammer on board rather than just stomping on EVERYBODY by putting them on this list?

Ok, the Host is hostforweb.com Now what can be done? I am currently looking at 48 hours of missed emails, customers, sales and possible jobs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been using this system for years and my customers are pretty much spam free.

I assume the problem is on your side.

Why don't you provide some information other than your silly ranting?

It has been found that most people that come in here and rant like you have end up finding out it is their own fault due to their careless abuse of the system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would be surprised if the problem would go away.  I have complained to my dial up because of using the list, the last time around.  The host can only shrug their shoulders and tell me they have been disabled for 3 days. (and it is disabling even if you refer to it as a list, fact is, my host is disabled and because of the "list" I am disabled).

Nonethess, the host is, as most are, a large host who probably did have a spammer on there.  Support at the host told me that they had been listed 4 times in 180 days, but does this mean that everybody has to pay?  I would think an improvement to the system would be in order.

Where big hosting companies are concerned, and clients like myself who depend on their website businesses and email are involved, why not institute something different? Why not send the host an email or something letting them know they have a spammer on board rather than just stomping on EVERYBODY by putting them on this list? 

Ok, the Host is hostforweb.com Now what can be done?  I am currently looking at 48 hours of missed emails, customers, sales and possible jobs.

16665[/snapback]

Still not good enough.......

Resolved hostforweb.com to 66.225.229.175

[hostforweb.com has 1 MX record inc2.serversecured.net.(0)]

Resolved inc2.serversecured.net to 66.225.211.236 to 66.225.211.237

66.225.211.237 not listed in bl.spamcop.net

66.225.211.236 not listed in bl.spamcop.net

What IP do you think is listed??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why don't you provide some information other than your silly ranting?

If you consider loss of business, money and maybe even clients, because a business that depends on the web and email, to be silly, I don't know what to say to you, other than, you may have some of your own issues.

It has been found that most people that come in here and rant like you have end up finding out it is their own fault due to their careless abuse of the system.

And you make a statement like that with seriousness? A business owner who finds himself disabled because of this list, who merely wants to receive email that is sent to him, receive sales, and notices from customers, is abusing the system? ooook then...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What IP do you think is listed??

I have no idea what ip is listed, I did not ask them. They went and looked into it and came back to me and told me they were currently on the list at spamcop.net and would be down for 48 hours.

ok, went back to support and asked them what ip address is listed:

66.225.216.131

Edited by davidll

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I do not want to try again... as we speak, my partner is standing here beside me and we need to get out of here to the job site. I just want to receive my email, that is what I want. The hostforweb support tells me that that is indeed the ip number that is listed. And I am out of time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Have you even read any of the FAQs on the site?

No, would you really expect that from a rant and rave muntchkin troll?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This service not only sucks, but once again, it is costing me money.  Every so often my web host winds up on your system.  When this happens I receive NONE of my emails from any of my business sites, including my boat site where I sell products and usually receive emails nearly daily.

<snip>

16662[/snapback]

...Sorry to say, but in my humble opinion you've gotten what you deserve for relying on e-mail for the success of your business. Internet e-mail is not, has never been and probably never will be a guaranteed-delivery mechanism. Too many things can go wrong. Wise business people either have a very good grasp of the technology on which their business success relies or have knowledgeable staff to advise them.

What else can I say except that this ill conceived system sucks?

16662[/snapback]

...You don't have to say anything if you can't be bothered to first find out more about internet e-mail and SpamCop.

Well, I guess I could say that people would rahther get a little spam mail (there is a delete button in email) than to lose business, customers and money.  I guess I could also say, maybe one of these days if I lose enough money because this system disables my business, perhaps it would be a viable option to take it a step further to the legal system.

<snip>

16662[/snapback]

...And most of the rest of us would say that our "cartoony" threat is laughable. No one can or should be forced to accept your e-mails, whatever their purpose. The ISP or e-mail providers of the people to whom you address e-mails have every right to use SpamCop's (or any other) blocklists to refuse e-mails from what have been reported to be machines that send spam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is understandable that you are annoyed that your email provider is giving you poor service by not taking measures to prevent spammers and also not responding to your complaints of poor service by taking corrective measures if a spammer does sneak in.

It is also understandable that if you are pressed for time that you have not read the information that explains about why and how email gets blocked.

If you are doing business online, then it would be a good idea to know enough about the options and potential problems that you can select an email provider who 'works for you' instead of against you.

There are plenty of mechanics or other vendors who service or provide service to businesses offline. You would not continue to use one who constantly gave you something that broke down or which caused others to complain about its use (such as a truck with no muffler).

If you want to research spam control as I have, or if you want to take my opinion as is, there is no other method of spam control on the receiving end that is as effective as using blocklists. It not only keeps spam from your inbox, but the sender knows that his message was not received (unlike content filters that just put the offending email among all the spam where it is unlikely to be noticed or worse yet, simply deletes it). In addition, spamcop sends a report to the administrator of the IP address so that honest and competent administrators can stop the spam coming from their IP address. More often than not (since blocklists have been effective in convincing administrators to oust spammers from their networks), the reason is that some innocent person has had their computer infected or hacked by the spammers and do not know that their computer is being used by the spammers.

Usually people are grateful to know that they have a problem and posters here will give lots of advice on how to get it fixed.

Now that you have vented your anger at something that is not working correctly, perhaps you will read the FAQ and have some pertinent comments or questions.

Miss Betsy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This service not only sucks, but once again, it is costing me money.  Every so often my web host winds up on your system.  When this happens I receive NONE of my emails from any of my business sites, including my boat site where I sell products and usually receive emails nearly daily.

There's really to much data included in your description that doesn't really make much sense.

1. Incoming e-mail is not arriving and you believe SpamCop is involved.

This would indicate that your ISP (providing your e-mail account) is using the SpamCopDNSbl, probably as one of many tools in an attempt to control icoming spam to this ISP's customers. (Note that SpamCop's own recommendation is to use this list for Tagging spam, rather than deleting or bounceing, but that's up to the ISP and their application suite.) You've not mentioned whether or not you have the capability of doing any white-listing. Most of the other customers probably see this situation as a plus, as their spam load is much reduced.

2. You declare issues with a web-host, but then jump to include the phrase "any of my business sites" .... one could interpolate this to mean one web-host, many web-sites, but could also go the other way, one web-host, but other sites hosted elsewhere. The assumption goes to the first scenario. You later define "hostforweb" as the web-host, then pull an IP out of the air, which others have indicted is not listed. Let's play the knowledge game and point out that there is an IP for just about everything on the "net" .... Your web-site has an IP address, but no one here actually cares what that IP address is.

One would then have to travel another set of guesses and make a stab that perhaps your boat (and other business) site(s) use a form-mail routine to generate an e-mail to "you" sitting somewhere else. (This is the only way I can guess at connecting the "my other business sites" and a specific "boat site" that somehow have "all" of their e-mail connected) So what's actually needed (and has been asked for already) is the IP address of the mail-server used by this web-hosting outfit that (assumedly) you are sharing with other "important business people" that also send out e-mail that other folks in the world don't wish to receive (or again, as has been mentioned already, the folks running this e-mail server aren't on top of controlling access to this server) ....

Starting with a poor attitude, sowing your displeasure along with showing your ignorance, refusing to take the time to get involved and learn what you need to know so you can get involved in getting the problem resolved just isn't going to get much accomplished. That you tell a story of a provider that simply shrugs their shoulders and watches the clock for a 48 hour countdown suggests that you might want to change the situation a bit. If there is really this much money involved, maybe it's time you set up your own system and handle your e-mail directly (or wiser yet, hire someone that really does know what they are doing)

Anyway, as has already been expressed, until you provide some accurate, specific, and correct details, there's not a lot of help anyone here can offer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: dra007

Have you even read any of the FAQs on the site?

No, would you really expect that from a rant and rave muntchkin troll?

You know what they say when you assume? They say it makes an ass out of u and me. As a matter of fact, I did read the faq section the first time this happened.

Re: turetzsr:

Sorry to say, but in my humble opinion you've gotten what you deserve for relying on e-mail for the success of your business.

My most humble apologies for selling products on the net and relying on an email in my inbox to tell me there has been a sale at my online store. And I was thinking other people did that too!

Wise business people either have a very good grasp of the technology on which their business success relies or have knowledgeable staff to advise them.

Your right, I should just scrap the email thing, I mean, after all, it only works most of the time, except for times when places like spamcop puts a host on a black list and mail from the host is stopped.

You don't have to say anything if you can't be bothered to first find out more about internet e-mail and SpamCop

Did I mention what you look like when you assume? Oh, yes, I already did.

No one can or should be forced to accept your e-mails, whatever their purpose.

Is this why you go through life assuming everything? Because you don't see what is in front of you? Try actually reading my complaint, perhaps you will see that I am not sending out any emails, I am not receiving emails from my server, because it was put on a list at spamcop.

Re: Miss Betsy

It is also understandable that if you are pressed for time that you have not read the information that explains about why and how email gets blocked.

I understand exactly how it is blocked.

If you are doing business online, then it would be a good idea to know enough about the options and potential problems that you can select an email provider who 'works for you' instead of against you.

I do, and I am looking into that.

Now that you have vented your anger at something that is not working correctly, perhaps you will read the FAQ and have some pertinent comments or questions.

Vent? I am not venting! I have a lagitimate complaint, and a right to be angry! My comments are pertinent without reading or researching. My host has been put on a black list at spamcop. My dial up refers to that list. Because of this I cannot get my email, and have to wait 48 hours until the host automatically comes off the list. The system is still illconceived. It apparently wasn't thought through, all the way to the innocent end users who would have to pay for a spammer on a network, or, worse, it was simply ignored and nobody cared. The last time this happened I lost a job out of the deal because a customer used email to ask us if we would go out and look at a job for him. This time, I have no idea what I am missing because my email is not making it to my inbox. That may not be pertinant to you, but it is to me.

Re: Wazoo:

You asked for more details and made only a few snide comments, so I will try to provide you with more details, though I have already provided most, as you correctly derrived what is happening.

I have a small boat restorations web site on a server at HostForWeb. On that same server I also have an online store where we sell some products. People use our website and actually do buy products from us, and we actually do receive emails from clients who want jobs done.

My dial up is localnet.com, whom I already have also gone to, this time and the first time this happened. They merely say "we know there are some flaws, but for now it is all we have". HostForWeb shrugs their shoulders and says, "ah, we're gonna be down for 48 hours".

You later define "hostforweb" as the web-host, then pull an IP out of the air, which others have indicted is not listed.

I did not pull the ip address out of the air. If you read the thread, you will see that Merlyn actually asked me to get him one. You will also see, if you look closely enough, that I said:

ok, went back to support and asked them what ip address is listed:

66.225.216.131

That is what support told me, I did not lie and I did not pull it out of the air.

Starting with a poor attitude, sowing your displeasure along with showing your ignorance, refusing to take the time to get involved and learn what you need to know so you can get involved in getting the problem resolved just isn't going to get much accomplished.

I came in knowing what was going on and showed it in my posts. Why all the wrongful assuming?

Fact: I use Hostforweb.

Fact: I use localnet

Fact: I am not getting email from hostforweb.

Fact: It has happened before and when it did I did find out about spamcop.

Fact: Hostforweb, after I went to support to ask them why I have no email from the server, told me they are on the spamcop blacklist

Fact: They told me the ip number that was on the list is: 66.225.216.131

Fact: I did not mistype that, I pasted it in and then double checked it with the copy of the support session to be sure it was correct.

Fact: Merlyn asked me:

What IP do you think is listed??
after hinting that maybe something could be done.

Fact: I brought to him the ip number that hostforweb support told me was blacklisted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I also have an online store where we sell some products
..hmm, are we talking about viagra, cialis or enlargement pills? In that case having plunged into this block list may not be enirely accidental! Edited by dra007

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fact: They told me the ip number that was on the list is: 66.225.216.131

Fact: The IP address 66.225.216.131 is not on the SCBL or any other blacklist I can find.

Question: Now what?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are the one not receiving e-mail, maybe you should consider asking your ISP to please turn off the spam filtering on your account?

It is virtually impossible for Spamcop to have every single one of your correspondent's ISP's on it's blocklist, unless you are doing business with questionable sources.

It appears that your ISP has the clamp locked a little too tightly and is not only not letting spam through, but nothing else. SpamCop cannot be held responsible for your ISP wanting to keep spam out of its network.

If the problem is that your customer is not receiving your e-mails, then your ISP is on the SpamCop blocklist for supporting spammers.

The problem is either one way or the other. None of us are sure which way, so it is difficult to dissect your information so we can give you a satisfactory answer.

(Not a SpamCop, just a user)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Re: turetzsr:

16772[/snapback]

...turetzsr is just my SpamCop signon; please refer to me as "Steve T" (see my sig). :) <g>

Sorry to say, but in my humble opinion you've gotten what you deserve for relying on e-mail for the success of your business.
My most humble apologies for selling products on the net and relying on an email in my inbox to tell me there has been a sale at my online store. And I was thinking other people did that too!

16772[/snapback]

...Other people might do that, too, but that doesn't make it a good idea to rely on internet e-mail for the success of your business.

Wise business people either have a very good grasp of the technology on which their business success relies or have knowledgeable staff to advise them.
Your right, I should just scrap the email thing, I mean, after all, it only works most of the time, except for times when places like spamcop puts a host on a black list and mail from the host is stopped.

16772[/snapback]

...Sorry, I don't see where I suggested you scrap the use of internet e-mail - I thought I just suggested that it was not a good idea to rely on it for the success of your business. Backhoes can cut datacomm lines, servers can crash, IP packets can be lost: there are lots of possible causes of loss of e-mail that a knowledgeable person knows.

...SpamCop does not, nor can it, stop e-mail when an IP address goes on its blocklist. Only an admin of the mail service can do that (and SpamCop advises against it!).

...This is all in the FAQs and pinned forum items. Your failure to acknowledge these things is likely what is causing others to "assume" that you did not read them.

You don't have to say anything if you can't be bothered to first find out more about internet e-mail and SpamCop
Did I mention what you look like when you assume? Oh, yes, I already did.

16772[/snapback]

...So far, I've seen nothing in your posts that suggests you understand how SpamCop works or the limitations of internet e-mail.

No one can or should be forced to accept your e-mails, whatever their purpose.
Is this why you go through life assuming everything? Because you don't see what is in front of you?  Try actually reading my complaint, perhaps you will see that I am not sending out any emails, I am not receiving emails from my server, because it was put on a list at spamcop.

16772[/snapback]

...Now that I deserved! My apologies, I see that now (thanks to Wazoo's more careful reading and his reply). I was misled by your complaining about SpamCop blocking e-mail. IIUC, the only way e-mail to you can be blocked due to a sending IP address being on the SpamCop blocklist is because the administrator of the receiving server used the SpamCop blocklist to block it. Edited by turetzsr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Problem #1 .... I say IP pulled out of the air, you say "provided by an expert that knows what's going on" ....

Reality check: Everyone has been checking for your alleged BL listing and coming up empty. As I pointed out earlier, IP addresses rule the 'net' ... so just for giggles, I tried http://66.225.216.131 ... guess what? A redirection, a bit of magic, and I end up sitting on a URL of http://www.funisus.com/down_for_maintenanc...2e88811c8abc204 .... sure doesn't act like an e-mail server as far as my web browser is concerned.

My security settings don't allow much to come through, but enough to laugh quite a bit ... "Down for Maintenance" ????? "Your IP Has been logged to Help fight Fraud (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx)" Geeeeze!

Guess some things just boil down to what you know and who you trust, huh?

What I'm trying to say (and was leading to in my last, apparently never got there) is that you were given and have been offering the IP address of your web-site, but the "problem" would be at the IP address of the shared e-mail server, which at this point is still an unknown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Problem #1 ....  I say IP pulled out of the air, you say "provided by an expert that knows what's going on" ....

Reality check:  Everyone has been checking for your alleged BL listing and coming up empty.  As I pointed out earlier, IP addresses rule the 'net' ... so just for giggles, I tried http://66.225.216.131 ... guess what?  A redirection, a bit of magic, and I end up sitting on a URL of http://www.funisus.com/down_for_maintenanc...2e88811c8abc204 .... sure doesn't act like an e-mail server as far as my web browser is concerned.

16778[/snapback]

...Note, though, that any machine (including one that runs a web service that redirects to another site) can be hijacked to send spam. And a machine running a web service can also run an e-mail service either intentionally (because the admin set it up that way) or because it's been trojanned).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...Note, though, that any machine (including one that runs a web service that redirects to another site) can be hijacked to send spam.  And a machine running a web service can also run an e-mail service either intentionally (because the admin set it up that way) or because it's been trojanned).

No arguement there at all ... I was just looking for the explanation of one hand saying "e-mail is blocked because it's listed" and the other hand saying "nope, ain't listed, never was ...." and add to that just maybe, the web-hosting folks might have half-a-clue, so that there really ought to be an actual e-mail server sitting in their midst somewhere. (then again, going to have to go back and look .. was this the $9/year host?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I have gone back to support over there, and got a little different story this time.

I was just looking for the explanation of one hand saying "e-mail is blocked because it's listed" and the other hand saying "nope, ain't listed

I would like that explanation too.

66.225.215.32 is the ip they claim is the one that is blocked, and they tell me that that is the direct ip of where my mailserver is.

I will also be going back to localnet about the restrictions that Bumpkin mentioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok, I have gone back to support over there, and got a little different story this time. 

66.225.215.32 is the ip they claim is the one that is blocked, and they tell me that that is the direct ip of where my mailserver is.

But it's not blocked. There *was* some issue with that IP at some point, but the SpamCop system reports that "the ISP (brest.servershost.net) believes the issue is resolved"

Translated, that means that the system was indeed compromised and a source of spam, and that due to complaints generated by being put on Blocklists, such as SpamCop's, they finally pulled their heads out and did something about THEIR problem.

So, where's your apology for providing bogus information, even though you gave it here in good faith? You should say...."I'm sorry that my provider is incompetent and gave me the wrong information that only led to confusion."

DT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As DavidT states, that IP is not listed at present. However, add in his mention of a bit of history and then look at the data set at http://www.senderbase.org/?searchBy=ipaddr...g=66.225.215.32 .... yep, the story seems to match the usual scenario ... things are going just fine, spammer finds an insecurity, takes advantage of it, spam spew leads to blockage, ISP finally catches on to what's happening, fixes problem, IP gets delisted ...

Volume Statistics for this IP

....... Magnitude ...... Vol Change vs. Average

Last day ......... 3.4 ....... -20%

Last 30 days ... 3.7 ....... 30%

Average ......... 3.5

That is unless this spammer is "saving" this resource for real abuse later on or the decrease in traffic flow is because the spammer moved to another compromised system because this one got listed ..... let's all hope that the decrease is because it was fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

davidll, unfortunately you belong to the class of business people who think they know what they are talking about but actually have no clue at what reality is.

<snip>

Fact: I use Hostforweb.

Fact: I use localnet

Fact: I am not getting email from hostforweb.<snip>

16772[/snapback]

Every so often my web host winds up on your system.  When this happens I receive NONE of my emails from any of my business sites, including my boat site where I sell products and usually receive emails nearly daily. 

16662[/snapback]

Try actually reading my complaint, perhaps you will see that I am not sending out any emails, I am not receiving emails from my server, because it was put on a list at spamcop.
How about reading your own statements.

I use Hostforweb, I am not receiving email from hostforweb

You customer may be the one writting the email, but you are the one sending it!!

The emails you are not getting are not being "sent" by anyone other than "YOU"

Definition: you = your web server

someone else = anybody other than you or the services you control ie your web sites.

Or did you fail to mention that your customers are writing emails from their home computers and sending them to "yourorderdept[at]yourwebsite.com that is in turn forwarding the messages to your "home"/"business" email address.

Or are your customers going to your website where you have created a email form that they can fill out that is automaticly set to your email address where you/your ISP have chosen to use the SpamCopBL to block your own email.

SpamCop does NOT block any mail - PERIOD. It is you or your email provider that is blocking your mail. Yes, you or your ISP may be using the SpamCop BL to do it, but thats your choice. Stop complaining to us about you blocking your own mail.

Your complaint is the same as yelling at your neighbor for blocking your driveway when it is your wife who borrowed your neighbors car and did not return the keys, who parked it in your driveway because you would not let her use your car.

It may be your neighbor's car that is causing your problem from your point of veiw, but it is your wife, not your neighbor who actually blocked your access.

Anyone who runs a business using unreliable dialup access from a provider who refuses to solve your problem which he has created is an idiot!!!!!

Edited by dbiel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×