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Ariel

New Held Mail Folder Behavior - ugh

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Unless it shows me why the messages were blocked, like the "old" URL does, I don't like it. Why was this changed? It was working fine before.

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Unless it shows me why the messages were blocked, like the "old" URL does, I don't like it.

It doesn't.

Why was this changed?  It was working fine before.

Probably because the old link took the user out of one interface and into another, totally different one. I keep tabs open in my browser for both the webmail (but don't stay logged in) *and* for the "mailsc.spamcop.net" system (where I *do* stay logged in), so I get the best of both. I never click on the "Held Mail" icon, but now it will at least give a shortcut to getting to that folder while within the webmail interface.

The major defect with what's displayed once you view the Held Mail in the webmail interface is that when you actually click into the individual held items, you frequently get this error:

There are no alternative parts that can be displayed inline.

Which is bull, because when in the index view, for that same spam, I'm shown this much of the text of the spam:

TOP quality software: Special Offer #1: Windows XP P= rofessional+Microsoft Office XP Professi...

This is a defect in the configuration of the webmail that I've mentioned in an earlier thread in this forum, and should be fixed!

DT

Edited by DavidT

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The major defect with what's displayed once you view the Held Mail in the webmail interface is that when you actually click into the individual held items, you frequently get this error:

There are no alternative parts that can be displayed inline.

Agreed... seems to be a problem in general with Horde.

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Agreed... seems to be a problem in general with Horde.

Maybe so...I forgot to mention that it's also true of items in the inbox. But I've not had time to go visit the Horde/IMP forums to see if this is a bug/deficiency or if it's perhaps due to the use of an older version by SpamCop, or some configuration issues....and nobody from SpamCop has bothered to answer yet. :angry:

DT

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There are no alternative parts that can be displayed inline

Ariel:

In my experience, this only happens when the message headers indicate: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

but the only the body section is: Content-Type: text/html; which spamcop will not display for security reasons.

You can always use the Message Source link to view the entire message.

As described in the help of IMP:

Multipart/Alternative Messages

Some message have been sent as a "multipart/alternative" type by the sender. These messages have several parts, all displaying the SAME CONTENT but in DIFFERENT FORMATS. The mail agent will display the last part in the list that can be successfully displayed inline in the browser, if any. All other formats will appear under the heading "Alternative parts for this section" and can be viewed or downloaded separately. It is important to note that these alternative parts contain the SAME CONTENTS as the part that is shown - they are simply in a different media format (e.g. text vs. HTML output).

The important part being: The mail agent will display the last part in the list that can be successfully displayed inline in the browser, if any.

In this case, there are no parts that can be successfully displayed because the configuration is set not to display html (which in my opinion is great).

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Maybe so...I forgot to mention that it's also true of items in the inbox. But I've not had time to go visit the Horde/IMP forums to see if this is a bug/deficiency or if it's perhaps due to the use of an older version by SpamCop, or some configuration issues....and nobody from SpamCop has bothered to answer yet.   :angry:

Ouch! ... This additional bit wasn't mentioned in your other Topic. As noted in that other Topic, sent one e-mail to JT, and actually just responded to (all) an e-mail from Ellen, including the issue raised in that other Topic. Ellen made note that she/Deputies are already receiving e-mail about this change .. where I could only point out this single Topic here (at this point) and that there's been no mention of this in the main newsgroups (again, pointing out that I don't read spamcop.mail)

Of note, Ellen was asking JT to put something on "his" front page about this change .. I noted that I'd already made a Pinned item out of the dialog thus far here in this Forum ... Maybe I'm confused .. granted that this change was noted in an e-mail to Deputies, Don, and myself (Julian got a copy other then in that particular one) .. but I made the assumption that putting the info out was why I was notified. Now seeing that my making it a Pinned item here is the only (?) "public" notification thus far .... hmmmmm

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There is now a note on the login screen to webmail since 11:18 AM EDT

[11:18 EDT] The action taken by the Held Mail button at the top of webmail has changed. It now takes you to your Held Mail folder inside webmail, where you can still report spam, release, or whitelist messages. If you prefer the old interface, you can still get to it here. Bookmark this site if you want to continue to use the old screen.

I will add that currently, the icon for the Held Mail is showing differently (link a depressed button) than the rest of the links. THis might be to highlight the change, but I tend to doubt it.

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Thanks Steven .. data from both of your last posts kicked out to JT and Ellen respectively <g>

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.. but I made the assumption that putting the info out was why I was notified. Now seeing that my making it a Pinned item here is the only (?) "public" notification thus far .... hmmmmm
Wazoo, did you not know that you are the "official" PR man for SpamCop. Thank you for posting the information.

I never use the heldmail link within webmail, but do use it from the standard reporting screen.

As long as there is a way to get to the VER interface I will be happy. It will be a sad day if it is taken completely away. :(

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Wazoo, did you not know that you are the "official" PR man for SpamCop.

Wondering how many folks you're going to put into "cringe" mode at readig that <g> Thinking of all the titles and descriptions I've picked up thus far, "official PR man" is such a long way from, say Mis Betsy's last of "crusty" .. and remember, she's usually pretty 'delicate' <g>

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Regarding the Held Mail direct access to SC being phased out...at least could the SC Mail sign-in page allow cookies to store the password, so that sign in would not normally be required?

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It will be a sad day if it is taken completely away. :(

I'm just wondering why this is. What functionality does teh VER page provide that the other one doesn't? I'm really curious on this, since I haven't looked at VER in about 8+ months, and am wondering what I'm missing. :)

Edited by jev

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I'm just wondering why this is.  What functionality does teh VER page provide that the other one doesn't?

17427[/snapback]

  • Can queue for reporting, which allows you to see what SpamCop thinks of the email without immediately reporting it.
  • Shows the email address, not the display name.
  • Shows the spam number for each incoming message.
  • Shows why SpamCop blocked the message (SpamAssassin score, SpamCop Block List, etc.)
  • Doesn't ask "Are you sure?" when you tell it to do something.
  • Can report more items at one time (or so I've heard).

I think that with the webmail interface, it is harder to spot which messages are spam vs. real mail without opening the message.

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I very much agree with the previous statement. In fact I hardly ever log into the webmail and not unless the report/held mail page is down. Could be a matter of preference and getting used to, but I found navigating through the webmail interface rather cumbersome and non-functional compared to the alternate method. I don't see why something that seems to be useful for quite a few of us would be discontinued unless there are reasons for it that cannot be stated here.

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I'm just wondering why this is.  What functionality does teh VER page provide that the other one doesn't?  I'm really curious on this, since I haven't looked at VER in about 8+ months, and am wondering what I'm missing. :)

17427[/snapback]

The functionality of the web mail interface has been improving.

Key point that is still missing is you can not do full reporting of spam, only quick reports.

For me, and this could be due to my software, the web mail interface works very poorly, It keeps dumping you back into the inbox even when you want to stay in the folder you are currenly in. At home the web mail interface scrolls off of the screen which makes in much more difficult to work with.

The information displayed is very different between the two.

VER interface

[531] eoxoxoajcdjhxn[at]everyday.com (Account Management from Abigail Donovan Preview ) 
Sat, 04 Sep 2004 21:02:10 -0500 (Blocked bl.spamcop.net ) 

Same message using web mail interface

 3 09/04/2004  Johanna  Account Management from Abigail Donovan  6kb

Message numbering is completely different. VER uses a sequential number and defaults with oldest first and will only display 100 at a time (can not be adjusted)

Web mail uses a incremental number that always starts with 1 and defaults with showing the newest first, my number of messages displayed is user selectable, mine is currently set at 500 (which I beleve is the max but have not reconfirmed)

For a description of how I use the system go to How I use spam Cop, A detailed example How about adding you example to the list?

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Can queue for reporting, which allows you to see what SpamCop thinks of the email without immediately reporting it.

Can be done by using the "Forward" link next to the "Report as spam" link.

Shows the spam number for each incoming message.

That number has always been questionable, as whitelisting and releasing does not renumber them.

Shows why SpamCop blocked the message (SpamAssassin score, SpamCop Block List, etc.)
This is the only useful part I would find, but I quick report anything in Held Mail and only full report things in the Inbox, so not needed by me.

Doesn't ask "Are you sure?" when you tell it to do something.

And that is a bad thing? I have whitelisted whole pages of spam because I had disabled the confirmation on the VER page. Try finding the valid email addresses in your whitelist for 100 message.

Can report more items at one time (or so I've heard).

Actually, it is VER that is limited to 100 messages at a time. SOME people have seen problems with large numbers (10's of thousands) of messages. I have reported several hundred at a time with no problem. I don't collect more than that (and only when on vacation). Otherwise, I have a maximum of about 100 overnight and never more than 20 between checking during the day.

I view only 10 at a time because I find keeping all messages on one page (no scrolling) helps eliminate mistakes. I had missed several of my wife's mailing lists that were caught before whitelisting in amongst the spam on the VER page.

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Can be done by using the "Forward" link next to the "Report as spam" link.

See, that's where I'm confused. The "Forward" option in the previous held page, meant it was forwarded to my Inbox, so I assumed it did the same thing from my Held folder in Webmail. Is this the case? Does the mail forward to queue for reporting or does it send the mail to my inbox?

I actually prefer the older interface, because I can see what blocked list caught the mail.

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So do I understand correctly that we are being asked to use Quick Reporting from now on? Initially, the text on the VER page said that VER would be going away, but I gather that this has been backed off?

VER lets me lart spamvertised web sites and to do a validity check on the reporting address. It also does not clutter my inbox with "processed" messages. I thought at first that this change was an actual improvement, but it seems it is more a "dumbing down" of the reporting capability. Have I missed something?

Edited by Firefly

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So do I understand correctly that we are being asked to use Quick Reporting from now on?
I believe that is a bit of a stretch.

Full reporting is always better than quick reporting, and I do not believe that anyone is suggesting otherwise. But your statement would appear logical as they are making full reporting more difficult.

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I've read all the comments here and just have a few points to make:

The Held Mail page works great if you turn previews on. This lets you glance through the first line or two of every email, to verify that they are all spams.

You can report far more at a time using webmail. I keep mine set to display 400 messages, for instance.

Even though webmail asks for a confirmation, it still takes fewer clicks to report spam using webmail than using VER.

Webmail should be faster, as it doesn't need to pull the messages from one system to the other to report the spam.

You can still use VER. Or, if you want to do the full reporting, just forward the messages to your spam reporting address. You can click multiple messages in the mailbox view, click Forward, input your spam submission address (if it's in your address book, just type the alias) and click to send.

This interface lets you report only the newest. Or only the oldest. It lets you look at your last few emails and release an email that you knew was missing. A lot of people ask questions about VER and almost all the time they're better off using the webmail interface instead.

JT

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See, that's where I'm confused.  The "Forward" option in the previous held page, meant it was forwarded to my Inbox, so I assumed it did the same thing from my Held folder in Webmail.  Is this the case?  Does the mail forward to queue for reporting or does it send the mail to my inbox?

I actually prefer the older interface, because I can see what blocked list caught the mail.

17438[/snapback]

Forward is forward, to any address you want. Release is what moves an email from your Held Mail to your inbox.

JT

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Forward is forward, to any address you want. Release is what moves an email from your Held Mail to your inbox.

JT

17442[/snapback]

I read that the Held Mail page on http://www.spamcop.net/reportheld?action=heldlog is going to be phased out? So that means that now, we can only use the "Report spam" link in Webmail, which only sends the report to the sending ISP, not 3rd parties?

I know I'm new to webmail (2 months), but I don't see why the held mail link was changed... I rather liked it going to http://www.spamcop.net/reportheld?action=heldlog

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So that means that now, we can only use the "Report spam" link in Webmail, which only sends the report to the sending ISP, not 3rd parties?

No, this is incorrect.

From JT's response

Forward is forward, to any address you want.

Which includes your submit.xxxx address for full reporting.

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I can empathize with people that report 100s spam at a time wanting a quick solution. Fortunately I don't have that many and I tend to report a few times during the day, one report at a time. I like to check or uncheck boxes (i.e. munged reports) and occasionally write notes in some or all boxes. So, in my case, I still maintain the heldmail page is the prefered route. Perhaps a poll should be taken and base a decision on a majority rule. I am willing to accept any decision as long as it would not lead to a lot of dizgrunttled users and a reduction in reporting, which I think would be detrimental for all parties involved.

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