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Leonard Grossman

To/from in mailbox folders

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Any status on the beta going live? It would be nice to have a solution to this problem.

Right now, the beta (from this side of the keyboard) is not ready for release, not because of the IMP application, which from my view is fine, but because the modifications that spamcop makes (reporting, whitelisting, etc.) have not been implemented. The thread I referenced earlier has more information. JT is the only one with knowledge about how those modifications are progressing. They will obviously need to be tested as well.

As I mentioned before, if that function is a major problem for you, ask to beome a beta tester and begin using it now. I was using it as my only webmail application for several weeks until the reporting issue was noticed.

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Sorry, nice try.  I should have mentioned these were in my spamcop mailbox until about 6:30PM when they were popped.

As far as beings left at the top or bottom of webmail, that is configurable.  Options, Display Options, Arrival Time will leave them as they arrive in the Inbox.  That is how I have mive sorted.  You may have them sorted by Message Date, which in this case does not exist.  I do agree that if possible, this should be fixed,but keep in mind, only JT has access to the server and some of the settings.

Fair enough. It was only a guess. Magic Eudora time I guess.

Really that is not a huge concern.

My real concern is my original reply. Needing to sort by "To:" header in the sent mail folder.

Thanks,

Skip

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Yes, I just realized that I can not PM multiple people in the same message. I was trying to alert everyone who had posted to the part I moved, was in a hurry and did not notice the error message at the top of the screen before I closed it.

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Any Progress on this issue?

26012[/snapback]

You mean the beta going live? With the continuing Firefox issues discussed in the other thread, I highly doubt that this will happen anytime soon.

And for me, the beta does not fix the TO: column in the Sent folder view. It says "Invalid Address" for all but two of my sent messages in both the production and the beta systems.

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And for me, the beta does not fix the TO: column in the Sent folder view. It says "Invalid Address" for all but two of my sent messages in both the production and the beta systems.

26013[/snapback]

Have you brought this issue up to JT? I don't recall seeing anything about it in these threads. The issue I saw was the sender (you) was showing up in the To: column.

I currently have 71 items in my sent folder, some messages from my address book, some replies to messages received, and some freshly entered and none of them display this problem. Do these messages have a To: or are they only CC or BCC'd messages? Is this for every message in your Sent folder? Is there some common address or means of addressing causing this?

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You mean the beta going live? With the continuing Firefox issues discussed in the other thread, I highly doubt that this will happen anytime soon.

And for me, the beta does not fix the TO: column in the Sent folder view. It says "Invalid Address" for all but two of my sent messages in both the production and the beta systems.

26013[/snapback]

Well, that is two pieces of bad information. If the beta is not going live soon, how about addressing the issue in the production code? This design failure makes it very difficult for some people to get full use out of the system.

Thanks,

Skip

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I currently have 71 items in my sent folder, some messages from my address book, some replies to messages received, and some freshly entered and none of them display this problem.

26017[/snapback]

Well, that is good news at least.

Thanks,

Skip

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Have you brought this issue up to JT?
No. Since it behaves in the exact same way in the production and beta systems, I did not consider this to be an issue specific to this beta test. Also, JT has not yet addressed some other issues I reported, so I did not want to swamp him with even more complaints ;)

Do these messages have a To: or are they only CC or BCC'd messages?
They have a To:. It shows up fine in the individual message view in webmail as well as in the IMAP folder view in Outlook and Thunderbird.

Is this for every message in your Sent folder? Is there some common address or means of addressing causing this?

26017[/snapback]

It only happens with the messages that I sent via Outlook 2003. They were moved into the IMAP sent folder by means of an Outlook rule.

For most of the messages I sent via Thunderbird, the To: shows up fine in the webmail Sent view. Except that for one single message that I sent via Thunderbird to a perfectly ordinary To: address, I have the same problem described by other people here, that is, my own name is shown. This happens with this one message in both the production and the beta systems.

For the messages I sent via webmail (both production and beta), I have not seen any such problem so far. But I do not send a lot of mail from webmail.

Outlook and Thunderbird do not have any issues showing the correct To: regardless of which program was used to send the message.

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OK. That makes things a little clearer. The only messages I ever have in sent mail are sent from webmail. I then transfer the via IMAP to my local machine. I rarely transfer things INTO my webmail account. I like to store and backup my own messages rather than rely on any outside sources.

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I access my email from several different machines. I find it very convenient to have all my messages, including the ones I sent, available in my IMAP account regardless of where I am. This can be done in addition to a local backup.

The Horde IMP webmail program is basically an IMAP client. It should not matter how messages get into the IMAP folder. My other IMAP clients (Outlook, Outlook Express, and Thunderbird) show the To: just fine regardless of how the message was put into the IMAP folder. Horde IMP, if working properly, should do the same thing.

I did a little more research and found that the problem I am seeing is closely related to what others have reported. Most email programs (including Horde IMP) insert a line like

From: My Name <myemailaddress>

into the messages that they put into the Sent folder. Outlook 2003 does not do that. Instead it inserts these two lines:

From: "My Name"

Sender: "My Name" <myemailaddress>

Horde IMP wants to malfunction in the same way as described by others, but then sees the oddly formatted From: line and decides to give me "Invalid Address" instead. So the bottom line is that I am experiencing the same problem as other people (modified a bit by what Outlook does), and for me there is no difference with respect to this problem between the production and the beta systems.

BTW, I have a Horde IMP account elsewhere and it malfunctions in almost the same way. This problem is not SpamCop specific. Maybe someone can check the Horde mailing list to see if this problem was addressed and what solutions were suggested?

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It sounds like Outlook is creating messages with non-RFC822-compliant (invalid)From Header Lines in your case. If you BCC your SpamCop account, or CC your other account, and then drag the resultant message into your SpamCop sent-mail mailbox/Folder, you can probably compensate for this errant behavior.

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Friends, I think I have found the answer to our problem (well to my problem, at least :) ). JT was right all along. It is in the Horde IMP FAQ, Question 2.7. It is not a bug, but a deliberate design choice by the Horde IMP programmers.

The To: column in the Sent folder view is not really a To: column, but a From: column that behaves in the way described in the FAQ I linked to. That means that whenever the From: field of a message matches any of your identities as specified in Options-->Personal Information, it displays the To: field instead of the From: field. This is the desired behavior for a sent mail folder. If it does not match, it reverts back to showing the From: line.

I could replicate this behavior by changing the email addresses in my identities. When I changed the email address in my default identity, suddenly all the emails that had previously shown the To: (the ones sent from Thunderbird) started showing the From: line.

The one message where I had reported this problem earlier turns out to be one that I had sent "from" a different email address. I added a new identity with that address. Then the message started showing me the To: line just fine.

Someone above mentioned that creating a new identity with the name shown does not work. Try creating a new identity with the exact email address mentioned in that From: line. I hope that will work. At least it works for me.

Of course, I cannot create an identity that matches the messed-up From: line created by Outlook, so I guess these will continue to show up as "Invalid Address". :rolleyes:

That said, a better design choice would have been to show a real To: column in the sent mail folder view. Maybe someone should approach the Horde developers with this suggestion?

Edited by swingspacers

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The To: column in the Sent folder view is not really a To: column, but a From: column that behaves in the way described in the FAQ I linked to. That means that whenever the From: field of a message matches any of your identities as specified in Options-->Personal Information, it displays the To: field instead of the From: field. This is the desired behavior for a sent mail folder. If it does not match, it reverts back to showing the From: line.

26026[/snapback]

No, the FAQ describes what it SHOULD do, what we want it to do. It is currently doing the opposite.

The FAQ says that when the "To:" information is more valuable than the "From:" then the "To:" information should appear in the "From:" Column. What we are seeing is the "From:" information appearing in the "To:" column.

Everything in my sent mail is "From:" me, so all I care about is who the message is "To:" I see a "To:" column, but all it contains is my address(s) over and over. Not very useful, I know that I sent the mail in my sent-mail folder. I want to know who I sent it "To:" The column says "To:" but the information is "From:"

Looks like a programmer just got a bit of code backwards. Should be really easy to fix.

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As I may have written before, it sounds like real From and To columns in every mailbox/Folder (but especially sent-mail) with configurable presence/absence would fix the problems you have been describing.

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Any status on the beta?  It sure would be nice if this worked.

26353[/snapback]

I have seen no change in the beta since before your last post. I am still waiting for reporting to be fixed and re-enabled before I start using it again, since that is my major use of webmail.

To get an official update, contact support<at>spamcop.net.

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To get an official update, contact support<at>spamcop.net.

26354[/snapback]

I thought they only responded to support questions here. Will they pay attention to Support <at> Spamcop.net?

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There really is no "they" at that address. JT owns/manages the servers that provide e-mail service to his CES clients, the servers that handle the SpamCop newsgroups, this Forum, and the SpamCop Filtered E-mail account users. Noted in a few places, support to his commercial customers is a full-time job.

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...I am still waiting for reporting to be fixed and re-enabled before I start using it again, since that is my major use of webmail...

26354[/snapback]

I have been putting up with the TO: anomoly like you all. But when I read the above about *reporting* I wondered. What is Steven referring to? The only report I've seen is the button on the forum page for objectional materioal posted here. He's obviously talking about some report in mail.

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What is Steven referring to?

I am referring to submitting the spam I receive in webmail to spamcop to generate reports which in turn keep the spam on the bl.

In the production version of webmail, whether you are in a folder or inside a message, you have a "Report as spam" link which automatically submits the message for spamcop reporting. If you have quick reporting enabled as I do, those reports go out with no interaction.

However, when reporting from the folder view, the code in the beta test was causing the first message selected to be reported multiple times while the other messages were NOT being reported. When this problem was discovered, JT removed the link to report from that interface on the beta system and it has not been fixed yet. More details can be found in a webmail beta test thread in this forum.

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There really is no "they" at that address.  JT owns/manages the servers that provide e-mail service to his CES clients, the servers that handle the SpamCop newsgroups, this Forum, and the SpamCop Filtered E-mail account users.  Noted in a few places, support to his commercial customers is a full-time job.

26357[/snapback]

They, hey, whatever. is that the way to get ahold of him/them?

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Yes, support<at>spamcop.net is the best way to get ahold of JT.

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