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Jeff S

Yahoo! Mailservers Blocklisted

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I started using SpamCop in conjunction with Mailwasher about a week ago. Eveything was going along smoothly until today. It appears any email message that comes via Yahoogroups.com is blacklisted by SpamCop. I have created filtes to get around this, but anyone have an idea what this is all about.

Thanks

Jeff

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The people who run Yahoo! Groups have a history of not being quickly responsive enough to network abuse issues.

From http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/306.html:

How do I whitelist yahoo groups?

Yahoo Groups mail should have a Return-Path header that looks like ...[at]returns.groups.yahoo.com  In order to pass all Yahoo Groups mail through to your inbox, add "returns.groups.yahoo.com" (without the quotes) to your whitelist.

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Was going to add .... check the FAQ here for an entry that looks especially and specifically related .. it's titled "Yahoo Groups Mail Blocked?"

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I started using SpamCop in conjunction with Mailwasher about a week ago.  Eveything was going along smoothly until today.  It appears any email message that comes via Yahoogroups.com is blacklisted by SpamCop.  I have created filtes to get around this, but anyone have an idea what this is all about.

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I have never used this service, so I am trying to figure out WHY Spamcop hard bouced my Yahoo account. I had to sign up to ask this question, since there is NO contact us on this web site. I am very frustrated.

Dee

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I have never used this service, so I am trying to figure out WHY Spamcop hard bouced my Yahoo account. I had to sign up to ask this question, since there is NO contact us on this web site. I am very frustrated.

Dee

SpamCop bounced nothing, as you've pointed out that you're not using a SpamCop Filtered E-Mail account. It's more likely that your ISP is the one that actually did the blocking, apparently using the SCBL in their arsenal of tools used to control incoming spam.

The FAQ 'here' (read before posting) contains a lot of data, you don't have to "sign up" to read it, and though your approach would be a mis-use (noting that this Forum is in fact identified as the normal/preferred 'contact point') .. there is definitely a "Contact Us" entry found there.

As both Jeff G. and I had already posted pointers to other data that talked of the Yahoo Group problem, did you bother to follow either one of those suggested resources to investigate on your own?

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I apologise for sounding like an idiot, but in fact many of us out here do not understand half of what you tell us in your posts. You tend to talk as if we all have taken numerous computer courses, etc.

PLEASE if you are going to tell us how to handle something, just figure we know NOTHING about it. I am 53 years old, and although I have had a computer since the old Vic-20, and now have a Pentium IV, I have NOT kept up with the latest lingo. Things are moving too fast that way for me to keep up, lol.

I have tried to contact my ISP, and THEY are apparently closed for the holiday. GRRR...I am SO frustrated. I am sorry if it seems I am taking it out on you, BUT Yahoo said it was bounced by SpamCop, I have tried to unbounce & it will not, so now I cannot post to ANY of my groups, not just the one that was supposedly hard bouncing the message.

I then spent 20 minutes going through your site to find this thread. So...

are you saying it is my ISP that is causing the problem? Which means I cannot do ANYTHING with my groups until they open Monday?

There MUST be a better solution.

Because I REALLY don't like not being able to post when I have something that is very important to put on my groups.

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Howdy,

In the past couple of days every email I receive, via my Spamcop account, from the Yahoo Groups BP-L and SLOSA-L accounts ends up as held mail. I'm the owner & operator of the latter, has somebody reported SLOSA-L email as spam?

I tried adding returns.groups.yahoo.com to my whitelist to see if that helps.

BTW: Do you really think is a good idea to be so condescending with your customers?

Randy

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dee248:

No apologies are necessary. I think you walked into the middle of another conversation. Generally, you can always access the groups directly through the web interface if it is that important.

Spamcop provides a list of servers (IP addresses) that have been reported as sending spam recently. Your ISP appears to be using the spamcop list to bounce messages back to their source, a very effective way to limit the amount of spam in their customers inbox and inform the sender that a problem exists. Perhaps you need to find a new ISP that provides the kind of support you require, I have had to do that several times in my internet history. Make sure your current service knows why they are losing your business, as well.

The addresses go on and come off the spamcop list automatically, depending on the number of recent reports being received. The Yahoo groups servers are listed pretty often because they are used to send spam quite often. Sometimes, valid messages from the service are also reported by prople who don't check close enough where the messages are coming from. Unfortunately, all groups use the same set of servers, so whan group A spams, all other groups are affected as well.

RMerkle: There are no company/customer relations here as we are almost all simply spamcop users voluneering our time to help other users. Also, most of the above can apply to your question as well.

Edited by StevenUnderwood

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BTW: Do you really think is a good idea to be so condescending with your customers?

???? A Frequently Asked Question is a Frequently Asked Question .... customer status doesn't have a thing to do with it.

This Topic has had several contributors thus far, but not one has offered up an IP address, which is the critical item for trying to do even the basic research as to what the status of that server may be at the moment. It also seems to me that there are discussions that talk directly about white-listing items, but this is dealing with the use of a SpamCop E-mail Filtered account ... are you saying you have one?

(The white-listing reference turns out to be within the very posting pointed to by the FAQ entry suggested.)

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Howdy,

In the past couple of days every email I receive, via my Spamcop account, from the Yahoo Groups BP-L and SLOSA-L accounts ends up as held mail. I'm the owner & operator of the latter, has somebody reported SLOSA-L email as spam?

I tried adding returns.groups.yahoo.com to my whitelist to see if that helps.

BTW: Do you really think is a good idea to be so condescending with your customers?

Randy

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The problem with blocking lists (also their advantage) is that they block the IP number of the sending computer, not the account name, therefore if one Yahoo group gets blocked, all other groups that use the same IP number to send mail will also be block

White listing will solve the problem for SpamCop email users, but unfortunately as Steve stated, some ISP's hard bounce mail based on the SpamCopBL which for the end users point of view is a very bad thing, as the user has no way it white list any account. The better ISP's use the lists for filtering only and allow the end user to decide what to do with the "bounced" that is flagged and filtered, messages. They also provide a method to white list individual addresses or domains. Earthlink for one, uses the filtering method.

Edited by dbiel

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I apologise for sounding like an idiot, but in fact many of us out here do not understand half of what you tell us in your posts. You tend to talk as if we all have taken numerous computer courses, etc.

I'm not sure if you are talking to "me" or a lot of people <g> The links from the FAQ that point to "here" are usually postings from other users, some know a lot of things, some know just a little bit <g> That's part of the reason for "this" version of the FAQ .. it includes the original, which was never much more than scratching the surface on a lot of items .. call it a bit of a wall to help weed out bad reporting .. one had to figure some things out before getting very far (this scenario goes back to the days when Julian was running the SpamCop "system" on a single computer sitting on the kitchen table <g>)

PLEASE if you are going to tell us how to handle something, just figure we know NOTHING about it. I am 53 years old, and although I have had a computer since the old Vic-20, and now have a Pentium IV, I have NOT kept up with the latest lingo. Things are moving too fast that way for me to keep up, lol.

Don't feel alone <g> ... I've been scrambling today on trying to figure out some things about this very Forum application and striking out thus far <g>

I then spent 20 minutes going through your site to find this thread. So...

are you saying it is my ISP that is causing the problem? Which means I cannot do ANYTHING with my groups until they open Monday?

There MUST be a better solution.

Sorry about the 20 minutes lost, but then again .... all (most) all Forum sections have a link to the FAQ, also labeled "read before Posting" ... and I had just recently created a Blocking List forum section so it would "stick out" a bit more ... there is a "search" option that will accept "Yahoo" as a search term. A bit off topic, but .. do you have any suggestions as to just how to improve/add/change something that would have solved that 20 minute search?

I have tried to contact my ISP, and THEY are apparently closed for the holiday. GRRR...I am SO frustrated. I am sorry if it seems I am taking it out on you, BUT Yahoo said it was bounced by SpamCop, I have tried to unbounce & it will not, so now I cannot post to ANY of my groups, not just the one that was supposedly hard bouncing the message.

Because I REALLY don't like not being able to post when I have something that is very important to put on my groups.

Now I'm getting a bit confused. See, the usual complaint is that a user's local ISP blocked the incoming e-mail from Yahoo. But the abve text makes it sound like Yahoo blocked some e-mail citing the use of the SCBL (which I don't think is true) ... but then you go on to say that you can't even post (assume you mean on/at Yahoo) .. this doesn't make sense in the general "SpamCop involved" situation, as you are no longer talking e-mail. If you are actually blocked from posting at Yahoo, there's something else going on ...???

Or is this some kind of fallout from your ISP bouncing e-mail from Yahoo, thus your account is flagged?

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????  A Frequently Asked Question is a Frequently Asked Question .... customer status doesn't have a thing to do with it.

This Topic has had several contributors thus far, but not one has offered up an IP address, which is the critical item for trying to do even the basic research as to what the status of that server may be at the moment.  It also seems to me that there are discussions that talk directly about white-listing items, but this is dealing with the use of a SpamCop E-mail Filtered account ... are you saying you have one?

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OK, when I go to the Yahoo Groups "My Groups" page there is a list of the groups I belong to. I go to one of my groups and it tells me that I have had a hard bounce (and which message it was...which was NOT a spam message btw) and where to go to "unbounce". I go there, click unbounce and it is not working. It then at the bottom of the page states that ScamCop blocked the e-mail from them verifying the unbounce. That is where I got the name ScamCop.

I had never heard of ScamCop before I saw it at the bottom of that Yahoo page.

Now, sice my e-mail verifying the "unbounce" is not getting to me, they will not allow me to post on any of my groups.

I AM SO CONFUSED!

BTW, I would be happy to supply those numbers if I HAD A CLUE how to get them.

Dee

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I'm not sure if you are talking to "me" or a lot of people <g> The links from the FAQ that point to "here" are usually postings from other users, some know a lot of things, some know just a little bit <g> That's part of the reason for "this" version of the FAQ .. it includes the original, which was never much more than scratching the surface on a lot of items .. call it a bit of a wall to help weed out bad reporting .. one had to figure some things out before getting very far (this scenario goes back to the days when Julian was running the SpamCop "system" on a single computer sitting on the kitchen table <g>)

Don't feel alone <g> ... I've been scrambling today on trying to figure out some things about this very Forum application and striking out thus far <g>

Sorry about the 20 minutes lost, but then again .... all (most) all Forum sections have a link to the FAQ, also labeled "read before Posting" ... and I had just recently created a Blocking List forum section so it would "stick out" a bit more ... there is a "search" option that will accept "Yahoo" as a search term. A bit off topic, but .. do you have any suggestions as to just how to improve/add/change something that would have solved that 20 minute search?

Now I'm getting a bit confused. See, the usual complaint is that a user's local ISP blocked the incoming e-mail from Yahoo. But the abve text makes it sound like Yahoo blocked some e-mail citing the use of the SCBL (which I don't think is true) ... but then you go on to say that you can't even post (assume you mean on/at Yahoo) .. this doesn't make sense in the general "SpamCop involved" situation, as you are no longer talking e-mail. If you are actually blocked from posting at Yahoo, there's something else going on ...???

Or is this some kind of fallout from your ISP bouncing e-mail from Yahoo, thus your account is flagged?

22204[/snapback]

[/quot

Maybe add a title to your site map as Yahoo problems? Since it seems so many

people are having problems like this?

Dee

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Maybe some of this will help ... traffic from over in the newsgroups on this same subbject ... (special added comment from another user "over there" ater reading the FAQ <g>)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

"WazoO" wrote in message

news:cr6to0$g1k$1[at]news.spamcop.net...

> Not a Deputy, only the owner of a free-reporting account ...

> However, noting the simultaneous posting of a Yahoo

> Groups blocking action here and in the web-based Forum ..

> Same answer provided here as over there ... please check

> the web-based version of the FAQ, look for an entry with

> the title of "Yahoo Groups Mail Blocked?"

> http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/

Thanks! I didn't even know about that forum!

I read that FAQ entry and it's as clear as mud.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

WazoO wrote:

> Not a Deputy, only the owner of a free-reporting account ...

> However, noting the simultaneous posting of a Yahoo

> Groups blocking action here and in the web-based Forum ..

> Same answer provided here as over there ... please check

> the web-based version of the FAQ, look for an entry with

> the title of "Yahoo Groups Mail Blocked?"

> http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/

The only place 'Yahoo Groups Mail Blocked' appears is in the thread

http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...176entry22176

Yahoo Groups Blacklisted

but it doesn't really say much helpful.

(Note: this entry points to this Topic, started today, so the FAQ entry is missed 'here')

The SC bl currently has 66.94.237.42 listed, which is also listed in spambag's backscatter2.

In addition, the scbl also shows all this:

Other hosts in this "neighborhood" with spam reports

66.94.237.16 66.94.237.20 66.94.237.24 66.94.237.28

66.94.237.32 66.94.237.35 66.94.237.36 66.94.237.37

66.94.237.38 66.94.237.39 66.94.237.40 66.94.237.41

66.94.237.43 66.94.237.44 66.94.237.45 66.94.237.46

66.94.237.47 66.94.237.48 66.94.237.49 66.94.237.50

66.94.237.51

All of those but one are currently listed, altho' some have short times

left, so some others may age off soon.

--

Mike Easter

kibitzer, not SC admin

-=-=-=-=-=-

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It would be very helpful if those experiencing a problem between Yahoo! Groups and SpamCop would include exact details in their replies, contact Yahoo! Groups tech support personnel about this issue, or both. If the details are confidential, they can be emailed to the Deputies via their email address deputies <at> spamcop.net.

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You say you do have the "bounce message" from your ISP. The set-up and usage of the SCBL (which first of all suggests filtering and tagging rather than blocking) asks that the "error message" be structured such that it links to an SCBL look-up page. If your ISP didn't go that extra step, then the headers of the bounced e-mail should contain the IP address of the Yahoo server that the e-mail came from ... that IP address should (most likely) show up in the list that Mike put together ... anyway, with that IP address, one could look up that server's status and (hopefully) see what its de-listing time may be ...

A "quick and not so elegant" solution ... can you change your registration data and have your Yahoo e-mail go elsewhere for a bit (say a Hotmail account?) .. that'd get you over the immediate issue ....

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Hello,

I have been following this thread as my isp suddenly is bouncing all my Yahoo groups also. I'm guessing that my isp has just signed up with Spamcop and doesn't have something configured correctly and that is causing the yahoo block. My Yahoo account has the following messaged returned from my isp:

Remote host said: 553 5.3.0 Message from 66.94.237.44 rejected - see http://www.spamcop.net

[MAIL_FROM]

This led me to Spamcop.com but I can't find anything that would allow me to unblock Yahoogroups since I didn't sign up for this service, so it must be something that my isp will have to deal with on Monday. Why does this crap always happen on a long weekend???

Would there be anyone at Spamcop who could unblock this?

Thanks,

John

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A few observations...

1. The "hard bounce" information Dee provided indicates that Yahoo can't deliver messages to Dee's ISP because the ISP is using the SpamCop BL as a way to actually reject mail during the SMTP session. Therefore, the only solution is for her to get her ISP to stop doing that, to get them to allow her to "whitelist" all messages coming from the Yahoo Groups system (I rather doubt they offer that level of user configuration), or to have her Yahoo messages delivered elsewhere. I'd recommend a Yahoo Mail account, which she could then check on the web.

2. From the "Report History" entries I've looked at when the topic of blocking/filtering of Yahoo Groups messages arises, I'm convinced that those Yahoo IP's are getting on the SpamCop BL due to careless reporting by SpamCop users. Many of them report things willy nilly without realizing that some seemingly unwanted items are coming from groups that they've actually subscribed to. It gets compounded by SpamCop Email users who routinely report eveything in their Held Mail, because that perpetuates the listings caused by the errors of other users. IMO, some systems should be exempt from being included on the SCBL, including Yahoo Groups, AOL Webmail, and other systems used primarily for legitimate purposes. Currently, there's no way to whitelist items that come from AOL users who happen to send using AOL's webmail interface, unless we whitelist each individual "From" address. Either those systems need to be exempt, or those of us using SpamCop email accounts need more powerful whitelisting capabilities.

DT

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It would be very helpful if those experiencing a problem between Yahoo! Groups and SpamCop would include exact details in their replies, contact Yahoo! Groups tech support personnel about this issue, or both.

Surely you jest? :huh:

Yahoo is primarily a free service, and in my experience there's virtually no chance of getting a timely and/or helpful response from them on something like this. Also, the desired details are also not available, in that the portion of the Yahoo Groups site in which a user can check on delivery/bouncing problems gives only the SMTP error quoted by a user in a previous message...and all that indicates is that the user's actual email host ISP is (mis)using the SpamCop DNSBL to block all messages from IP addresses that are in their (cachced) copy of the SpamCop DNSBL (unless they have their server doing real-time lookups). The ISP's shouldn't be doing that...they should offer a "Held Mail" area to their users, and they should also offer the users adequate whitelisting options to avoid having specific types of desireable mail wind up being held/filtered/blocked/whatever.

DT

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I have been following this thread as my isp suddenly is bouncing all my Yahoo groups also...[snip] Would there be anyone at Spamcop who could unblock this?

I think that a SpamCop Deputy *could* do something about it (by removing all the Yahoo Groups server IP's out of the BL), but I don't think they would do so.

Your best solution is to log into Yahoo Groups and have your group messages sent to a different destination, perhaps a Yahoo email account.

DT

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DT,

Thanks for the reply. I have already changed the destination email for my groups. How would I get in touch with a Deputy? It's worth a shot...

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My Yahoo account has the following messaged returned from my isp:

Remote host said: 553 5.3.0 Message from 66.94.237.44 rejected - see http://www.spamcop.net[MAIL_FROM]

As mentioned ealier, this error message basically sucks. What should have happened is that you'd have been provided a link to http://www.spamcop.net/w3m?action=checkblock&ip=66.94.237.44 .. which currently shows: 66.94.237.44 not listed in bl.spamcop.net .... have to assume that it recently de-listed .. the catch is that there is no guarantee that the next outgoing Yahoo e-mail "to you" is going to use that same server ...

This led me to Spamcop.com but I can't find anything that would allow me to unblock Yahoogroups since I didn't sign up for this service, so it must be something that my isp will have to deal with on Monday. Why does this crap always happen on a long weekend???

Going with the spammer outlook on things, the long week-ends are the perfect opportunity to send their spew, for the exact reasons you specify .... abuse desks are un(der)manned, so the likelyhood of their crap reaching their victims is much increased. (whereas the SCBL is basically an automated system, working 24/7)

And yet again, one more pointer to the FAQ here .. lots of answer there .. to include a number of "Contact Us" addresses. However, as DavidT suggests, the outcome of this specific requested action is probably not likely to happen ... just more likely that the "automated" aging off of the IPs in question runs its course. If some research was done and all complaints were done "in error" .. perhaps a hands-on manipulation could occur, but ... per Mike Easter's data, you're asking for a lot of research, which historically doesn't go with "all reports submitted in error" ...

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Actually I was being rhetorical on my long weekend question but I agree with your logic.

Since this is such a seemingly common reoccuring problem, can't Spamcop just ignore Yahoogroups as spam since most reports are erroneous?

Unfortunately, I am sure I will have to just wait until Monday to contact my isp....

Thanks,

John

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or those of us using SpamCop email accounts need more powerful whitelisting capabilities.
Well SmapCop users do have the power.

The white list is very flexable

You can whitelist the entire .com world by adding ".com" to the list

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