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Jeff S

Yahoo! Mailservers Blocklisted

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True. I can't control what other ISPs do and can't control renegade spammers, but I can control how I get my e-mail and what ISP I chose.

I actually don't send e-mail through my ISP. I instead send most of it through my web server with dedicated IP addresses. Since I don't spam and have dedicated addresses, I know I won't be blocked because someone from my ISP spammed.

Its a very expensive way to insure you get all your e-mail and a very expensive way to send e-mail, but it beats being lumped in with spammers and irresponsible parties. I don't know how many people would be willing to pay hundreds of dollars a month for a server like we do. Most are at the mercy of their ISPs policies. We are lucky enough to have our own web/e-mail servers and have full control.

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From the newsgroups;

Mr. Smith wrote:

I agree it probably has nothing to do with Yahoo. But what is strange is

these are each a very narrow-interest group with which I have no connection

whatsoever (expatriates from a particular province in India, etc). I can't

imagine a group-owner trying to randomly recruit members, and these are two

quite different groups (the other is something to do with Burma).

I did get a third notice from Yahoo groups saying that my request to

"unsubscribe" had been rejected because it did not come from my own email

address. A copy of the unsubscribe request was included and the IP address

traced back to a Shaw cable modem in Canada. This is my only clue as to the

origins of these requests (everything else comes directly from Yahoo with no

other clues). So someone is screwing around, I am just curious as to the

motive, and if it is some new spam twist? If no one else has seen this,

probably not.

and in another thread;

Mr. Smith wrote:

> A "message" just got bounced back to me as rejected. Within the message is a

> Netsky virus. This looks like an attempt to spread a virus via Yahoo Groups.

> I assume my address got picked up from some spammers list or Outlook address

> book.

It might be even simpler from that.  Netsky seems to send to addresses

harvested from various files, including archived email and cached web

pages; it doesn't use such sources only for spoofing the from address.

Anyone with Yahoo group messages on their system will have the

unsubscribe address in their archive.  Some groups are configured to

also include the subscribe address at the bottom of each message, or the

subscribe address is likely to be in the browser cache if the user has

recently visited the group's home page.

--

Daniel W. Johnson

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I have found that IP Address of Yahoo groups mailing list is blocked by spamcop. This will be bring numerous member of yahoo groups cathegorized as "soft-bounced member", if their MTA use spamcop service. :(

see this log of my postfix mail server :

Sep 12 15:18:47 if postfix/smtpd[360]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from n4.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com[216.155.201.69]: 554 Service unavailable; Client host [216.155.201.69] blocked using bl.spamcop.net; Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?216.155.201.69; from=<sentto-3223109-3541-1126512025-xxx=xxx.xxx[at]returns.groups.yahoo.com> to=<xxx[at]xxx.xxx> proto=SMTP helo=<n4.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com>

xxx[at]xxx.xxx is one of email address of my mail server

Is there any mechanism that Spamcop Block List have some exceptional IP Address ?

NOTE: this post was actually started as a new topic and was later merged into this topic by Forum Admin

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Unfortunately, this is one of the sad side effects of the spam problem.

The only effective way to block spam is at the IP address it is being sent from or through. There is way too much spam being sent through Yahoo groups and as a result their varrious IP addresses are being added (and removed) from the SpamCop BL frequently.

The Receipient can use a white list (if it is available to him) to receive "blocked" mail.

Secondly, SpamCop does not recommend/approve the use of its BL as a blocking list, but rather have stated that it should be used as a filtering list; but it remains the choice of the reciepient (ISP or end user) to decide exactly how the list will be used.

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I have found that IP Address of Yahoo groups mailing list is blocked by spamcop. This will be bring numerous member of yahoo groups cathegorized as "soft-bounced member", if their MTA use spamcop service.

32611[/snapback]

This is such a regular problem that you will find many references to it by searching within the forums.

Sadly, Yahoo! don't appear to provide a mechanism for preventing spammers from using their system to send junk which means that their servers will often be listed and then the listing is removed once the spew stops.

You can, of course, read messages to a Yahoo! group through their web interface.

Andrew

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You can also complain to Yahoo! about their lousy record in reacting to and proactively preventing the spam through their servers that causes the listings.

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Merged sholeh_setyawan's post (and following discussion) into this existing Topic. Move/Merge details sent via PM.

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Just to show the wonderful stuff being sent from that server, here are a few examples of reports that were sent to: yahoo<at>admin.spamcop.net :

Report History:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Monday, September 12, 2005 3:29:08 AM -0400:

APPROVE -- prtp2k5 <prtp2k5[at]yahoo.com.sg> wants to join cuum_bunnies

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Monday, September 12, 2005 3:07:26 AM -0400:

File - Cumshot_Cuties.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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I belong to a number of groups on yahoogroups. I use multiple addresses for these groups. I have my own domain name (lizardcop.com) Some of these addresses are through lizardcop.com.

My problem is not that my domain is being blocked, but that certain yahoogroups mail is being blocked to certain addresses.

Here is what yahoogroups said they received;

Remote host said: 553 5.3.0 Mail from 216.155.201.62 Email blocked using spamcop -

see <http://spamcop.net/bl.shtml> Response Code: RBLSC [MAIL_FROM]

That was only for one of my addresses in use at Yahoogroups, all the others were sent through to me without a problem.

This isn't a situation where ALL of yahoogroups is being blocked to my ISP, only those messages sent to one specific address of mine.

HELP!!!

Moderator Edit: Merged this latest "new" Topic into one of the existing YahooGroup discussions .... PM sent to advise of Move/Merge action.

Edited by Wazoo

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This isn't a situation where ALL of yahoogroups is being blocked to my ISP, only those messages sent to one specific address of mine.

39326[/snapback]

It is based on the IP address used to send you the yahoo groups mail being on the list (not all will be at the same time) and whether your accounts are all using spamcop to protect you from spam sources.

From the link and IP address provided in the error message:

216.155.201.62 listed in bl.spamcop.net (127.0.0.2)

If there are no reports of ongoing objectionable email from this system it will be delisted automatically in approximately 1 hours.

Causes of listing

System has sent mail to SpamCop spam traps in the past week (spam traps are secret, no reports or evidence are provided by SpamCop)

SpamCop users have reported system as a source of spam less than 10 times in the past week

So the listing is about to expire.

The following are reports against that server:

Report History:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 10:41:39 AM -0500:

Your message to me dated; 12-24-2004!

1622849750 ( 216.155.201.62 ) To: spamcop[at]imaphost.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Friday, January 13, 2006 3:17:20 PM -0500:

[AdvancedYogaPractices] Digest Number 197

1620832134 ( 216.155.201.62 ) To: abuse[at]yahoo.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:30:44 PM -0500:

fw: ...

1618708656 ( http://uoa039.stockexchangeclosed.com ) To: chenrenhai[at]china-netcom.com

1618708651 ( 84.101.53.11 ) To: postmaster#gaoland.net[at]devnull.spamcop.net

1618708650 ( 84.101.53.11 ) To: spamcop[at]imaphost.com

1618708648 ( 84.101.53.11 ) To: dom_tech[at]gaoland.net

1618708647 ( 84.101.53.11 ) To: abuse[at]gaoland.net

1618708646 ( 84.101.53.11 ) To: abuse[at]teleglobe.com

1618708645 ( 66.218.66.218 ) To: abuse[at]yahoo.com

1618708644 ( 216.155.201.62 ) To: abuse[at]yahoo.com

As far as which of your accounts are using spamcop, you would need to tell us that. It is possible that all of them are (which would make sense) and only this group is using the server that sent the spam.

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It is based on the IP address used to send you the yahoo groups mail being on the list (not all will be at the same time) and whether your accounts are all using spamcop to protect you from spam sources.

As far as which of your accounts are using spamcop, you would need to tell us that.  It is possible that all of them are (which would make sense) and only this group is using the server that sent the spam.

39327[/snapback]

I guess what annoys me the most is that it is only the one address that gets "zapped". And, of course, once "spamcop" blocks the e-mail, it gets sent back to yahoogroups as a "hard bounce" and that address is blocked until I manually reactivate it.

I have no accounts using spamcop, which is another frustrating thing...

I might go a month with no problems and then have 3 or 4 in a matter of a couple of days...

How can I stop it?

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I guess what annoys me the most is that it is only the one address that gets "zapped".

Applying ancient history, having to make some guesses as to the possibility of having anything to do with any of this ... years back, when Microsoft was busy screwing up HotMail, they ran into issues of (database) servers dropping out .. the impact being for example that users with account names that started with "de" through "fa" were not found in the login process, as the server that held all those user account data sets was "gone" ..... Turning that around, perhaps Yahoo is doing a bit of "load-balancing" and the e-mail output server being used is dependent on your Yahoo account name (and even then possibly rotated some more over a 'set of servers' ... possibly feeding into your accusation of "only one name/account" .. when if you're actually talking about any SpamCop.net involvement, it would only be dealing with an IP address, end of story.

And, of course, once "spamcop" blocks the e-mail, it gets sent back to yahoogroups as a "hard bounce" and that address is blocked until I manually reactivate it.

SpamCop.net does not have the power to "block" anything, much less send out a bounce ... any and all of this occurred based on configurations set at the "receiving" ISP. The SpamCopDNSBL Blocking List has its own section in the SpamCop FAQ found here (see the top of this page) ...

I have no accounts using spamcop, which is another frustrating thing...

No one has "an account using spamcop" beyond those folks that have opted to sign up for and use a SpamCop filtered e-mal account. On the other hand, some folks use third-party tools to handle their incoming e-mail with products that use some of the SpamCop.net resources and data. Once again, there is a FAQ here, and there's even a bold link on the Forum entry page that if followed would have taken you to What is SpamCop?

How can I stop it?

39328[/snapback]

Unknown from here ... does your ISP offer a while-listing capability for starters ...???

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SpamCop.net does not have the power to "block" anything, much less send out a bounce ... any and all of this occurred based on configurations set at the "receiving" ISP.  The SpamCopDNSBL Blocking List has its own section in the SpamCop FAQ found here (see the top of this page) ...

39329[/snapback]

I read the FAQ, and here is the reason My Account was locked out until I reactivated it...

Remote host said: 553 5.3.0 Mail from 216.155.201.62 Email blocked using spamcop -

see <http://spamcop.net/bl.shtml> Response Code: RBLSC [MAIL_FROM]

They said it was blocked by spamcop, not I.

My ISP is not sending any reports of spam, as it is my ISP and I use internal filtering without any reporting to anyone. This is not a yahoo mail account, just yahoogroups mail being sent to my personal addresses. It seems to only affect one specific address on my domain, and it is coming from multiple "G" rated forums at yahoogroups.

I agree, there are a large number of forums on yahoogroups that should be trashed, but I do not belong to any of those and do not plan on joining.

Like many others, I may go for long periods of time without and problems and then all of a sudden I'll get a number of problems in a short period of time, like right now where I've had the account locked twice in the past 18 hours... For the forums I am just a member of, it's not a big problem. For the forums I own or moderate, it not only blocks the forum mail, but the moderator mail as well. That becomes a problem...

I guess my biggest question is how does spamcop get involved in my mail in the first place? Especially when my ISP is set to NOT report anything to anyone...

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I read the FAQ, and here is the reason My Account was locked out until I reactivated it...

Sorry, no idea what FAQ, part of a FAQ, or whatever resembled a FAQ you might be referencing .. or even the appearance that you didn't look at that 'start here page" ... and of course, it would also seem that none of the previous dialog in this monster Topic/Discussion carried any weight ...

Remote host said: 553 5.3.0 Mail from 216.155.201.62 Email blocked using spamcop -

see <http://spamcop.net/bl.shtml> Response Code: RBLSC [MAIL_FROM]

They said it was blocked by spamcop, not I.

You could call it semantics, but .... "blocked using ..." is not the same as "blocked by ..."

My ISP is not sending any reports of spam, as it is my ISP and I use internal filtering without any reporting to anyone.  This is not a yahoo mail account, just yahoogroups mail being sent to my personal addresses.  It seems to only affect one specific address on my domain, and it is coming from multiple "G" rated forums at yahoogroups.

"Your ISP" .... "Your Domain" .. yet you say nothing about "Your E-mail Server" ... your first post, your repeated data both list the IP of 216.155.201.62 as being the "blocked" addressw (noting once again, nothing to do with an e-mail address, only an IP address) ... and that IP address tracks back to;

01/15/06 20:19:35 IP block 216.155.201.62

Trying 216.155.201.62 at ARIN

Trying 216.155.201 at ARIN

OrgName: Yahoo

I have no idea how you are trying to connect the dots between this IP address finding its way onto the SpamCopDNSBL and you/your ISP sending reports of spam as being the "only" possibility ... (please take a lok at the previous posts in the very discussion .. part of the reason I merged your "new Topic" into this one)

I guess my biggest question is how does spamcop get involved in my mail in the first place?  Especially when my ISP is set to NOT report anything to anyone...

39330[/snapback]

Once again, you are asking a Frequently Asked Question with answers provided by folks taking the time to write up and provide FAQ Answers so that other folks don't have to re-type all that data .. for instance, how about looking at What is the SpamCop Blocking List (SCBL)? .... data also found in the Blocking list section of the Forum version of the SpamCop FAQ and as an entry in the Original FAQ ... It's not like this data is a secret .....

OK, some serious facts here ....

ns2.yournethost.net reports the following MX records:

Preference Host Name IP Address

10 mail.lizardcop.com 65.108.34.217

01/15/06 20:37:35 IP block 65.108.34.217

Trying 65.108.34.217 at ARIN

Trying 65.108.34 at ARIN

OrgName: Alabanza, Inc.

Telnet to 65.108.34.217 is answered by;

220 host7.yournethost.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.12.10/8.12.10; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:38:53 -0500

The suggestion being (based on the way I'm reading what you provided) that "yournethost" is running the e-mail server in question and is using the SpamCopDNSBL as part of their tool-set to handle incoming e-mail. Have you talked to them about your "only one e-mail address" scenario?

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I read the FAQ, and here is the reason My Account was locked out until I reactivated it...

Remote host said: 553 5.3.0 Mail from 216.155.201.62 Email blocked using spamcop -

see <http://spamcop.net/bl.shtml> Response Code: RBLSC [MAIL_FROM]

They said it was blocked by spamcop, not I.

I agree that it sounds that way. However, as Wazoo points out 'using' and 'by' are different.

I agree, there are a large number of forums on yahoogroups that should be trashed, but I do not belong to any of those and do not plan on joining.

The definition of spam depends on conSent not conTent. As long as the trashy forums are not sending out unsolicited email, they are not involved in spamming. However, even a group that is positively saintly would be spamming if they sent unsolicited email.

Like many others, I may go for long periods of time without and problems and then all of a sudden I'll get a number of problems in a short period of time, like right now where I've had the account locked twice in the past 18 hours...  For the forums I am just a member of, it's not a big problem.  For the forums I own or moderate, it not only blocks the forum mail, but the moderator mail as well.  That becomes a problem...

Yes, I can see it is a problem. I don't understand the yahoo group structure, yahoo servers, etc., but essentially if you are positive that you are not allowing unsolicited email being sent (by not confirming that the email address that is signed up belongs to the person who signed up), then it is because yahoo is allowing other groups or individuals to send unsolicited email. Your problem is with yahoo.

I guess my biggest question is how does spamcop get involved in my mail in the first place?  Especially when my ISP is set to NOT report anything to anyone...

39330[/snapback]

The only way spamcop gets involved is by the receiving ISP who is 'using' the spamcop blocklist. It has nothing to do with reporting (though those who use the scbl often do contribute to it by reporting). If you don't want your email lumped in with spam email, then you will have to do something about the 'sending' end. Asking people to receive anything from that IP address in order to receive email from you is asking them to receive spam while that IP address is on the scbl.

Miss Betsy

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You folks are right, I really don't understand this.

All I do know is that at least once a day for the past 6 days I have had to go to yahoogroups and reactivate the one e-mail address because mail to that address from yahoogroups was hardbounced back to yahoogroups by whatever method it's done as a result of spamcop.

Thanks for your information and I will go back and read everything again.

What I have learned is that yahoogroups ain't changing and this problem is going to get worse until I can find some way to get my mail from them without going through all this filtering.

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Ok, here is how the SCBL and email in general works as concerned with Yahoo groups.

Someone posts a message to Yahoo groups.

The Yahoo servers generate an email to everyone subscribed to that group with the content of the message.

Those email are routed through a series of mail servers (Outgoing Servers) owned by Yahoo groups. Which message goes through which server is probably mostly random, and is designed to balance the load so that all the servers do about the same amount of work.

Your particular message gets routed out on a server that happens to be listed on the SCBL.

The message in question arrives at the mail server belonging to your ISP (Incoming Server).

Your ISP is using the SCBL to help reduce the amount of spam that the process so that they can keep their pricing reasonable. They see that the Outgoing Server that the message came from is listed as a known source of spam, so the bounce the message.

Yahoo groups is notorious for allowing group moderators to add any email addresses they want to their lists, and allowing spam to pour forth from the Yahoo Groups servers, so I would not expect this problem to go away anytime soon.

However, there are still several possible solutions to your problem:

1) Ask your ISP to whitelist the Yahoo Groups servers so that mail originating from them will bypass the blocklist they are using (SCBL). This is probably the least likely thing to work, as most ISPs will not knowinging whitelist a known source of spam.

2) Read your subscribed Yahoo Groups online. This is probably the best solution, as it is guaranteed to solve your problem.

3) Use usenet or a better service for your groups. There are a number of group providers out there that are more responsive and proactive in preventing abuse of their services than Yahoo. They are less likely to get listed because they actually enforce their policies proactively, rather than waiting for someone to complain before they correct a problem. This may not be feasible for groups where you are not the administrator, but if it is your group, finding a service that can provide reliable email should be a top priority.

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I don't see what the issue is. You simply need to set up a "whitelist" with "[at]yahoogroups.com" and your messages will come through... unless you run an archaic POP program that doesn't look in the entire header, rather just looks [at] the "from" addy.

I had to do this with my Ebay sales notifications, several mailing lists and my own site (because I run spam Assassin at 2, it catches everything)... no problems since then.

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I don't see what the issue is.  You simply need to set up a "whitelist" with "[at]yahoogroups.com" and your messages will come through... unless you run an archaic POP program that doesn't look in the entire header, rather just looks [at] the "from" addy.

I had to do this with my Ebay sales notifications, several mailing lists and my own site (because I run spam Assassin at 2, it catches everything)... no problems since then.

39447[/snapback]

I think his problem is that the filtering using the SCBL is taking place at his ISPs mail server, so he has no control over it. Any white listing he did in his email program would be pointless since his ISP would already have filtered the email before it ever got to that stage.

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hmm... but I recall that one of my Yahoo Groups was on the SCBL, but when I whitelisted it in my SCMail, I received all the mail.

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I guess my biggest question is how does spamcop get involved in my mail in the first place?  Especially when my ISP is set to NOT report anything to anyone...

Wazoo provided an answer to your "biggest question" but you didn't respond to what he wrote. Let me repeat....you need to contact your own email provider regarding *their* filtering of mail, because that's where the problem is. You're barking up the wrong tree.

DT

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Yeah, whitelisting it in SCMail would work, but I didn't see any indication that this user was using SCMail. I got the distinct impression that they were simply using POP3 to retrieve mail from their ISPs mail servers which by that time have already discarded anything that they have filtered.

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Thanks Will. Between your explanation and the reading I've done on a couple of other threads, I have a better understanding.

I've been working with my ISP.

As for the yahoogroups I belong to, I know they aren't the spammers. The ones I own or moderate require approval for all new members and they don't get un-moderated privileges until they post a certain number of message in compliance with the group guidelines. And most all I belong to are the same way. But you can't control everyone.

I also understand that it's not SpamCop that's blocking the mail, regardless of what the ISP's or Yahoo say. Too bad the ISP's don't follow the recommendation of SpamCop, that would make things a lot easier.

But, regardless of who, I can't fix it so I'll just have to make a work-around somehow.

Again, thanks for all the info folks!!!

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