193.252.22.28 blocked

[davidamescurtis]

All this hassle just to send an legitimate e-mail!

I tried to send an e-mail and it was blocked by this dumb service:

<davgraham[at]merseymail.com>: host mail.merseymail.com[193.110.243.35] said:

550-193.252.22.28 listed at bl.spamcop.net ( Blocked - see 550

http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?193.252.22.28 ) (in reply to RCPT TO

command)

So I signed up and found myself here.

Please unblock me: curtis[at]msh-paris.fr

I'm not some computer nerd and have no idea how to deal with this waste of time.

[Wazoo]

Wow! I just created this (How to use ...) Forum section a day or so ago. I just finished writing up a bit of an Intro to using the Forum. And the first post in the "How to Use ..." tutorial section turns out to be someone with a BL issue. Time taken to split that post out, delete the previous post that contained only a quote of the "What this (How to use ...) Forum is all about" and move this post over to the Blocking List Forum. User advised of this action via PM.

http://www.spamcop.net/w3m?action=blcheck&ip=193.252.22.28

193.252.22.28 not listed in bl.spamcop.net

Although SenderBase shows it as listed ..?? Timing/mirror issues?

Though being a wanadoo.fr IP ... what can one say?

[Merlyn]

193.252.22.28 not listed in bl.spamcop.net but wanadoo.fr has way too much spam coming from it.

I think you need to read the FAQ, Spamcop does not block anything.

[Miss Betsy]

I'm not some computer nerd and have no idea how to deal with this waste of time.

Neither am I (a computer nerd), but neither am I an automobile mechanic. When my car stops working, I am inconvenienced. If I know enough to change the oil and to watch the gauges, I have a better chance of not being inconvenienced even though I still cannot repair the brakes.

The problem is that your ISP does not seem to know how to keep spammers from using their network apparently. It is your responsibility as a sender to use responsible email service.

The person to complain to is your ISP and ask why they have allowed spam to come from the computers under their control and so are inconveniencing all their legitimate customers. Ask what they are going to do to restore your email service to working order.

Miss Betsy

[Wazoo]

User PM'd me back. Unfortunately, I must admit to having a problem right now laughing so hard. While those words will probably really send this user into orbit, as Merlyn has already pointed out, SpamCop does not block any of your e-mail. Your "obnoxious blocking of a legitimate e-missive" was accomplished by the folks that run merseymail.com. Either talk to them and convince them to remove their anti-spam toolset, ask if they can/will white-list your e-mail, or even better, convince wanadoo.fr to clean up their act. Per the FAQ, per the instructions, per just about everything, I don't "control" what happens to your e-mail. It is definitely your call as whether you will visit "my web site" again, though noting that you did ask a question "here", thus any answers will be 'here' ... like them or not.

[davidamescurtis]

Wow!  I just created this (How to use ...) Forum section a day or so ago.  I just finished writing up a bit of an Intro to using the Forum.  And the first post in the "How to Use ..." tutorial section turns out to be someone with a BL issue.  Time taken to split that post out, delete the previous post that contained only a quote of the "What this (How to use ...) Forum is all about" and move this post over to the Blocking List Forum.  User advised of this action via PM.

http://www.spamcop.net/w3m?action=blcheck&ip=193.252.22.28

193.252.22.28 not listed in bl.spamcop.net

Although SenderBase shows it as listed ..?? Timing/mirror issues?

Though being a wanadoo.fr IP ... what can one say?

23422[/snapback]

[davidamescurtis]

Well, when I call Wanadoo. they of course said they are not responsible, either...

How is the little guy supposed to send legitimate e-mails when no one takes responsibility for their being blocked?

How can this thing call itself "SpamCop" and then say that it has nothing to do with blocking anything? (I'm not talking about the technical procedures involved, I'm talking about the final effect of your "service.")

It's not a matter of adding gas and changing the oil, it's like GM sold you the car and some other company (SpamCop and the ISP that use that service) comes along and steals your keys or tells someone else to do so.

You may say I'm stupid, but I just don't get why (to switch metaphors slightly) there's this roadblock being thrown up in front of me, just because I'm subscribing to Wanadoo (which is, after all, a major ISP, not some fly-by-night Spamming operation). Since my wife's professional website is there, and people know that Wanadoo URL, I can't just switch ISPs because someone else has come along and unnecessarily created a new problem while claiming to solve the real problem of spam. I still get spam all the time, and now there's another problem on top of it!

This is written in pure frustration by someone who isn't a computer whiz. I'd appreciate some constructive answers, not snide remarks.

[dra007]

You come here with an arrogant attitude and chose to ignore all the help offered to you and yet expect a better treatment? If you did the bit of research required of you to understand your problem you'd find out that Spamcop is no fly by operation but a respected service that (unlike wanna_do) does something to reduce the amount of spam that is getting annoying and time consuming for us, the end users. Instead you will end up on the long list of munchkin trolls that occasional fly-by this forum only to find themselves blocked again and again, and for quite legitimate reasons...

[StevenUnderwood]

Well, when I call Wanadoo. they of course said they are not responsible, either...

36989[/snapback]

Submitted: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:58:36 AM -0500:

Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender

Most of the reports against the IP in the link above are caused because Wanadoo is sending "Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender" messages to addresses forged in the headers (i.e. they are NOT returning it to the sender). It is sort of like your neighbor putting all of his junk mail into your mailbox.

For a more detailed explaination of the problem, Why are auto responders bad? from the FAQ.

[justauser]

193.252.22.28 not listed in bl.spamcop.net

[StevenUnderwood]

193.252.22.28 not listed in bl.spamcop.net

36992[/snapback]

Thank you Justine...I should have added that while it may have been blocked, it currently is not. That being said, unless Wanadoo changes their policy of bouncing spam to innocent people, they WILL be listed again.

[turetzsr]

Hi, David (if that is not how you prefer to be addressed, I apologize, and please let me know how you would prefer to be addressed),

...First, I would like to compliment you on your providing in your very first post the information we need to address your question -- the rejection message you received.

Well, when I call Wanadoo. they of course said they are not responsible, either...

How is the little guy supposed to send legitimate e-mails when no one takes responsibility for their being blocked?

36989[/snapback]

...In case you're still confused about this after the other answers you've received here, I'll try to clear that up. Ultimately, as Miss Betsy suggested, the responsibility is yours to understand enough about the tools (e-mail and the internet) you are using to determine how best to address this problem. That's not to say that you should know all the technical details right from the start but that you should be willing to learn what an informed consumer should know, just as you would about any product or service you use. This forum and the SpamCop FAQ (to which a link appears at the top of the page) is a great place to do that.

...Having said that, let's discuss a bit about who is responsible for this specific problem -- your e-mail being blocked (whether they seem willing to accept responsibility or not). The immediate responsibility is that of the agency who are taking the blocking action. That is the ISP or MSP (e-mail service provider) (Merseymail?) of the person to whom you are sending your e-mail. That they are responsible is not to imply that they are wrong, they may be just trying to avoid the costs and headaches of handling spam. They are doing this (I am guessing) because the machine through which your e-mail was sent by your ISP or MSP (Wanadoo?) has been reported to SpamCop as a spam source and so had at some point made its way onto the SpamCop list of spam sources (aka the SCBL). Many such providers permit "white listing" of e-mail addresses -- you can ask the person/people to whom you are trying to send your e-mail to ask their provider to white list your e-mail address.

...Next level (and, in the view of most of us here, key location) of responsibility is your ISP or MSP (Wanadoo?). They seem to be either unresponsive to reports of spam (or mis-directed undeliverable messages, as StevenUnderwood pointed out, above) coming from their machines or unable or unwilling to do enough to prevent that spam from going out.

...Back to the ultimate point of responsibility: you and other customers of your ISP or MSP. If anyone has the power to change your ISP's or MSP's behavior, it is you. You signed up with them for a service, receiving and sending e-mail, and you are not getting the latter. As you would with any other product or service you are buying, if you are not getting what you paid for and can not get the provider to remedy the problem, you can only leave and find a more responsive provider. For most of us, e-mail service is available from more than one provider (even free services, although many of them have spam control problems, as well, but are more responsive to complaints).

How can this thing call itself "SpamCop" and then say that it has nothing to do with blocking anything?  (I'm not talking about the technical procedures involved, I'm talking about the final effect of your "service.")

36989[/snapback]

...In case you are still not clear about this, I'll try to explain further. The effect of an ISP or MSP using the SCBL to block (rather than tag as possible spam, as SpamCop suggests) is to avoid the expense and aggravation of having spam enter their environment. That inconveniences those of us who are customers of providers like yours who refuse to or have trouble controlling their spam problem but that's what they (those doing the blocking) have chosen and that is their absolute right. They do not have an obligation to you or me to accept our e-mail, especially if doing so makes it likely that they will also be bombarded by yet more spam.

It's not a matter of adding gas and changing the oil, it's like GM sold you the car and some other company (SpamCop and the ISP that use that service) comes along and steals your keys or tells someone else to do so.

36989[/snapback]

...Not really (at least in my opinion). No one has stolen your keys or told anyone else to do so. In your analogy, people have told SpamCop that some owners of GM models have been engaging in predatory driving practices, SpamCop has published a database that includes those models and some cities have chosen to entirely ban those GM model cars from being driven in their cities. SpamCop suggests that cities alert their police force to keep special watch on those GM models to ensure that their drivers are complying with all driving rules or shunt those cars onto specific roads where they can be monitored. Note: my continuing this analogy is against my better judgment because I'm sure you and others will be able to find lots of holes but I am hoping it clarifies things for you.

You may say I'm stupid, but I just don't get why (to switch metaphors slightly) there's this roadblock being thrown up in front of me, just because I'm subscribing to Wanadoo (which is, after all, a major ISP, not some fly-by-night Spamming operation).

36989[/snapback]

...No, I definitely don't think you are stupid. The fact that Wanadoo is a major ISP does not mean that it does not also have a spam problem. In fact, if you look at the list of the most serious sources of spam, they tend to be large service providers (Comcast being the source of the largest number of spam). In some cases, it's just the nature of the business (any large organization, no matter how good, will have some problems, just because of the volume of activity), in others it's because they are unwilling or unable to do anything about the problem.

Since my wife's professional website is there, and people know that Wanadoo URL, I can't just switch ISPs because someone else has come along and unnecessarily created a new problem while claiming to solve the real problem of spam.

36989[/snapback]

...This should give you even more leverage with Wanadoo to get them to fix their spam problem, as they risk losing not only you as an e-mail customer but also your wife's professional web site. As I am not a technical internet and e-mail person I do not know for certain that it will solve your problem with your e-mail being rejected but it may help you to send your e-mail through another e-mail provider, such as Yahoo (who I use, since it's free and I'm a cheapskate <g>), so that the source of your e-mail appears to be your (new) e-mail provider rather than Wanadoo.

I still get spam all the time, and now there's another problem on top of it!

<snip>

36989[/snapback]

...We all feel your pain -- spammers have spoiled the internet, including e-mail, for all of us!

[Wazoo]

Small note here that may have been overlooked by the folks offering support. The Starting post in this Topic is dated Jan 21 2005 ..... the next post by the same user in the same Topic is dated Dec 1 2005 .... one should note that there's been plenty of time for the continuing education for all parties involved. That it's been almost a year, the issues are the same, the players are the same, this Forum has changed a lot, the FAQ got bigger, replicated into other forms, many more folks have posted about similar issues and most of them actually got something resolved .... Though some sympathy can be offered for the situation ....

[agsteele]

Well, when I call Wanadoo. they of course said they are not responsible, either...

36989[/snapback]

I'm presuming that the 11 month gap between first exchange of messages and the latest contributions means that you see that the problem went away and has no recurred.

Wanadoo.fr does have a serious problem with junk Email being despatched from their system. Many of my own customers have recently had incoming Email to them blocked because they use Wanadoo as their ISP. Being a very small ISP it was easy to resolve the problem for our customers.

The ISP of the person (people) you are trying to reach need to take similar action themselves if they choose to allow Wanadoo users to send to them. Many will prefer to block the legitimate messages along with the spam. That is the problem you are facing.

Andrew

[Merlyn]

Like in January the same still applies in December, wanadoo.fr is blocked completely from our networks. They have no idea what they are doing. They cannot run a network in a responsible manner and never act upon abuse complaints. Completely clue resistant!

[Miss Betsy]

<snip>

You may say I'm stupid, but I just don't get why (to switch metaphors slightly) there's this roadblock being thrown up in front of me, just because I'm subscribing to Wanadoo (which is, after all, a major ISP, not some fly-by-night Spamming operation).  Since my wife's professional website is there, and people know that Wanadoo URL, I can't just switch ISPs because someone else has come along and unnecessarily created a new problem while claiming to solve the real problem of spam.  I still get spam all the time, and now there's another problem on top of it!

This is written in pure frustration by someone who isn't a computer whiz.  I'd appreciate some constructive answers, not snide remarks.

36989[/snapback]

There are no consturctive answers as long as you refuse to understand that the internet is a highway and that users have to be aware of the rules of the road just as offline users have to know the rules of the road on an offline highway.

Miss Betsy

[Jank1887]

first post in Jan 2005, then nothing until Dec 2005. My guess is we won't hear from him again until the next time wanadoo gets listed.

For the future then:

Spamcop isn't your problem, Wanadoo is your problem. If they can't maintain the level of service you're paying for (ensuring their servers are operated such that they can send mail to the rest of the net), pay someone else for the service. You CAN move your wife's business to a different host. It's very easy. In the meantime, get a backup email account. Spamcop just protects other computers from spew coming from your host's servers. And we appreciate that very much.