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Outernaut

Why am I paying with my time?

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Don't get me wrong, I very much appreciate the job anti-spam companies are doing and glad I can be of help by reporting spam. It doesn't seem reciprocal.

ISSUE:

  1. As I understand it, every time I report spam to SpamCop (SC), I am helping CISCO/SC.
  2. My preferred method of reporting spam is to copy & paste the 'source'. I know there are easier ways, but I get a sense of pleasure feeling I've helped to tighten the noose. I use real email via a client, not public Wmail. (I hate Webmail and their stalkers)
  3. After clicking "Submit" I have to wait - and in the start it was 5 seconds. Now it's 18 seconds! I know I can PAY SC to rid the NAG screen and report immediately.

How fair is it that I am being nagged to pay SC so others (and CISCO) may benefit from my meager contribution of my time? I see it as I am working for SC. I don't mind volunteering my time to report, but sure as Hades don't appreciate being penalized for it.

Why am I penalized with a 18 second (an growing) nag screen? If SC wants help, it's a odd way of treating helpers.

O

 

 

 

Edited by Outernaut
typo

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3 hours ago, Outernaut said:

Why am I penalized with a 18 second (an growing) nag screen? If SC wants help, it's a odd way of treating helpers.

O

You WILL be assimilated!
It's also your choice to use SpamCop not hard to "forward as attachment" to your "submit.SuperSecret@spam.spamcop.net" then report once SpamCop auto-acks report ready to submit. Not sure if there's a nag wait?
Remember there is a cost in running SpamCop and your only defense against spammers is to report them.
You can also forward as attachment your spam to the abuse department of the IP who sent it
For Windows get a "Who-Is program" these are both free
http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/ipnetinfo.html
http://www.gena01.com/win32whois/

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29 minutes ago, petzl said:

You WILL be assimilated!
It's also your choice to use SpamCop not hard to "forward as attachment" to your "submit.SuperSecret@spam.spamcop.net" then report once SpamCop auto-acks report ready to submit. Not sure if there's a nag wait?
Remember there is a cost in running SpamCop and your only defense against spammers is to report them.
You can also forward as attachment your spam to the abuse department of the IP who sent it
For Windows get a "Who-Is program" these are both free
http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/ipnetinfo.html
http://www.gena01.com/win32whois/

Thanks for that. But I did say ..." I know there are easier ways, " and anyway, I can read the reporting page. Try it and you'll see the nag screen. SC wouldn't be in business if people didn't report the spam. Maybe, if we're lucky tobacco companies will follow the CISCO/SC trend and shoot their suppliers too, or politicians their voters,  thugs shoot the gun manufactures... yup charging helpers is typical kiddie-kewl Googleism.

I don't like to be insulted by CISCO/SC with nag screens prompting me to pay them to help them with their database. I've been feeding SC ONLY 1 maybe 3 spam reports a day for I don't know how long - lost count. But contrary to your point, I will NOT be assimilated because I don't mind helping, but refuse to pay to do so.

"auto-acks"???? Eeek! Ack!! Oook! WTH?

'Nuff. Until they loose the nag screen for helping, SC can find their own spam and I'll save time and just delete them.

Thanks petzl for reiterating their position,

O

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37 minutes ago, Outernaut said:

Remember there is a cost in running SpamCop and your only defense against spammers is to report them.

Your welcome. 

37 minutes ago, Outernaut said:

Thanks petzl for reiterating their position,

O

You still should report spam even if not by SpamCop, otherwise your spam will just get worse

Edited by petzl

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18 hours ago, petzl said:

You still should report spam even if not by SpamCop, otherwise your spam will just get worse

My reporting spam doesn't affect me except in the very slightest sense. As I see it, when anyone sends a report in, a binary bit-chomper anaylze3s headers, content and when set number (probably in the thousands) sends in the same, it raises a flag. SC sends copies to ABUSE@ wherever, and when THEY get enough, another flag is raised and that bit-chomper takes a serious look at it. Then, and only if there are a large number of same filings, the chomper puts the offender into it's database. Mail servers subscribing to SC receive the offenders IP and another bit-chomper suspends the email users account.

It takes more than just one person and SC doesn't take my word for it and block spam coming to me.  So my entry is just one of thousands assisting to maintain SCs database so they can sell subscriptions to mail servers who in turn will block the sender IF and only IF there are enough complaints.

When I submit, and am told to wait 15 seconds and can get past the delay IF I pay, it's still a smarmy way of treating the volunteering help.

Give I get the time, I might auto it to forward. But in reality, it's the Trashnets way of doing business. R.I.P Internet.

I see no reason to continue this discussion since you and probably others, think it's OK to nag volunteers into paying to help.

Thanks for your opinions petzl, and goodbye

O

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21 hours ago, Outernaut said:

I don't like to be insulted by CISCO/SC with nag screens prompting me to pay them to help them with their database. I've been feeding SC ONLY 1 maybe 3 spam reports a day for I don't know how long - lost count. But contrary to your point, I will NOT be assimilated because I don't mind helping, but refuse to pay to do so.

The NAG screen was started around the turn of the century after lots of people started using the sevice.  The minimum time (If I remember correctly) was set to three seconds and only went higher if there were lots of people submitting their spam at the same time.  The highest I saw back in the day (Just before Cisco came on) was a over a minute.  What I would do at that time if I was not paying is to open up a second window/tab and submit more spam while I was waiting for the first window's nag to time out.

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4 hours ago, Outernaut said:

So my entry is just one of thousands assisting to maintain SCs database so they can sell subscriptions to mail servers who in turn will block the sender IF and only IF there are enough complaints.

That "used to be", not anymore. Cisco mail servers are second to-none in stopping spam with zero "false positives' and you just don't see spam at all.
SpamCop really only benefits those who attacked by spammers, I do not see any real benefit for Cisco in running SpamCop,
I believe we are a legacy left from Ironport when Cisco bought them out. Remains as a public service  

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On 11/2/2019 at 1:35 PM, petzl said:

That "used to be", not anymore. Cisco mail servers are second to-none in stopping spam with zero "false positives' and you just don't see spam at all.
1*SpamCop really only benefits those who attacked by spammers, I do not see any real benefit for Cisco in running SpamCop,
I believe we are a legacy left from Ironport when Cisco bought them out. Remains as a public service  

Thanks for that @petzl. The reporting site isn't very clear how it works. But it begs the question:

Preamble: I use real Email - not a webpage Wmail GUI. I have several emails hosted by several different mail servers. Each has their own very weak anti-spam - useless in the short run. Most use cPanels " Apache SpamAssassin " and even with the spam Threshold Score set to 2, spams still invades with it's garbage. I copy & paste the spam contents (in Thunderbird it's Tool Bar > View > Message Source) to SpamBot reporting form.

The QUESTION:

By reporting spam to SC, how does it 1*protect me from more spam? Do mail hosts have to subscribe (free or otherwise) to SC or CISCO mail servers in order to avoid the spam?

I just don't understand how CISCO can help block spam I've reported unless mail routs through CISCO mail servers somehow.

I certainly don't mind, tho do resent, paying for another level of anti-spam. The nagger says "$15.00 for 2 years". Will that be enough to avoid nag screen?

~ Just another Google~

BTW - I love this forum's GUI.

 

Edited by Outernaut
Test jazzing it up.

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48 minutes ago, Outernaut said:

By reporting spam to SC, how does it 1*protect me from more spam?

Reporting spam by any means, SC included, is sent to abuse desk which if enough reports or of illegal content will act.
You usually end up list washed by spammer, for me that's enough.

$15 will remove nag screen but it allocates 15MB of spam reporting, no time limit, the more you report the quicker it gets used up.
I don't see that by reporting spam directly (forward as attachment) to abuse desk as less effective probably simpler.
This blog is good to get advice some helpful, some not.
Nowadays I send most abuse reports directly, only using SpamCop when I want evidence of abuse desk not doing their job.

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To follow on what petzl posted.

There are two paths here

1) Stop the spam out right.  As petzl posted, IF the abuse desk/ISP a good member of the internet or the cost of too many report gets to high, the ISP can stop the spam from the IPs they control.  Yes, the spammer can just fine somewhere else host there spamming but that is life

2)  spam traps, analysis or reported spam add to some block list, spamassin, spamCop,  or who ever.  For any blocklist to have an affect on your email, some ISP  or node in your path must use that blocklist

Depending on where you report your spam you may help one or both approaches.  one or both may affect spam you receive.  As a bonus you may get washed off the spammers list.

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3 hours ago, Outernaut said:

By reporting spam to SC, how does it 1*protect me from more spam? Do mail hosts have to subscribe (free or otherwise) to SC or CISCO mail servers in order to avoid the spam?

By reporting spam through SC, it does two things:

  1. Alerts the administrators to do something about it or risk being put on the blocking list.
  2. After a certain amount of reports the offending IP is added to the blocking list.

A lot of email service providers have used the SC blocking list.  If you control your own email server, you could use the SC blocking list to help slow down the spam.  If you use a spam filtering tool such as spamassassin, then this will most likely already be enabled.

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21 minutes ago, gnarlymarley said:

After a certain amount of reports the offending IP is added to the blocking list.

And SpamAssasin uses the SpamCop Blocking list

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On 11/2/2019 at 2:35 PM, petzl said:

 

 

On 11/2/2019 at 10:10 AM, Outernaut said:

It takes more than just one person and SC doesn't take my word for it and block spam coming to me.  So my entry is just one of thousands assisting to maintain SCs database so they can sell subscriptions to mail servers who in turn will block the sender IF and only IF there are enough complaints.

 

Just to clear one thing up, we do not sell the database.  The SpamCop Blocking List is free to anyone who wants to use it.  Since the community contributes greatly in the compilation of the service, it is only fair the community should be free to benefit from it.

I only became aware this morning that the nag time had climbed.  It is a bug, not anything sinister or intentional.  The setting is for a maximum of seven seconds, so I have filed a ticket to have this investigated and fixed since I have been able to duplicate the extended nag screens.

Incidentally, the history of the nag screen was a revenue generation put in place by Julian.  The nag screen was to be an advertisement display, but there was ever only one taker.  When Ironport bought SpamCop the decision was made to not be advertising dependent, but we've never written the nag screen out.  We've talked about it many times but have been told it is too integrated to just easily drop and we should wait until the new GUI is in place.  After many years, we're still told it's coming, it's coming

 

On 11/2/2019 at 10:10 AM, Outernaut said:

 

 

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My thanks to everyone with your replies.

I am sorry for long delay in responding, but a dead mother board has me scrambling to rebuild with out loosing everything and  Windows doesn't like me starting it without me putting on my leash - which took 2 days to convince, It's MY computer :)

I've read everything twice. I'm still at a loss as to how I benefit directly except to bypass the "7 minute" nag screen (see image)

{Start sidebar}Soon as my ISP gets some semblance of support for me to change my account password - it fainted because I have a new comp and won't let me log in until I contact support which doesn't answer voice or chat.  It's a stupid world. To many kiddie-koders being oh so 'kewl' in reading my GPU, CPU, and APU, MACs and not recognizing, it won't let me log in. Dumb donkeys! I wish they'd go back to crayons and coloring book. (had to rant somewhere :) )
{End sidebar}

Now that I'm back online, I can contribute to the cause - how ever it works :)

Thanks EVERYONE.

~o~

p.s. @petzl

On 11/1/2019 at 2:03 PM, Outernaut said:
petzl said:

You WILL be assimilated!

Over my dead router!

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Just to follow up, it ended up the time was out on one of the servers.  SpamCop runs on many servers with load balancing.  Every page you see may be served up by a different server (look at the source code of the page and it will tell you what server it came from (www01 to www03, app01 to app08, and others, 24 in all)).

Making sure the time was synced across the servers fixed the issue.

BTW Outernaut, just clicking refresh often brought up a shorter time, or even no nag screen if the second was a time in the future.

 

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Thank you everyone for your help.

I just tried to contribute to a subscription or whatever it's called but our policy does not permit me to use anything other than a recognized payment gateway. That is something that Spamcop should catch up on and the only option to not giving up credit card info is by ... "check or money-order" which is even more primitive.

I am main online buyer for where I work, and I can't remember when the last was that I saw a web site ask for credit card info, that wasn't PayPal, Swipe or Digital Rivers etcetera.

When there is a payment gateway - I'll spend some money.

Thanks

~0~

image.png.34c9914fba55b74d304e88bad50ffc08.png

 

 

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Wonderful but I already knew that some people would like SpamCop to use PayPal. Add me to the list, or is the link a subtle survey?

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