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Jeff G.

"Bounce error"

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I just received the following on http://mailsc.spamcop.net/:

Bounce error

Your email address, x<at>spamcop.net has returned a bounce:

Subject:

Please ensure your email account is reliable, then click below:

followed by a "Problem resolved" Button. I clicked that Button and the system responded "Bounce flag reset, thank you." I don't know how this could have happened, and I don't have time right now to ask TPTB, but I wanted to document it as I haven't seen it documented here.

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?? The status message and the 'click to fix' thing are in a number of postings here (and the newsgroups) and in the FAQ here ... you're right in that looking at logs is going to be required to why the SpamCop servers saw the bounce, but ... that would be the only thing 'not documented' ....

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Sorry, the search engine couldn't find them.

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I'm going to start with pointing to Emailed spam Submissions Disappearing?, No Confirmation e-mails? Head on down to "Problem Resolutions" item #3 ... not having one of these accounts, I've not seen the error myself and descriptions from those that had left me some doubts as to exactly where the message showed up. I believe most of my previous responses to problems used words like "somewhere on your logged-in www.spamcop.net page, there should be a message somewhere ..." .... I'm guessing that this is why the lack of a "search" response .. only know that the answer was enough to solve the problem for those that ran into this. Not sure if I'm up to trying to find all those previous Topics and edit them to include the blurb you captured/provided to have them found in a future search ... will edit the FAQ entry referenced above to add in that data ..

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Thanks, I further modified what you modified.

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... and it's always the case that the address that's "returning the bounce" is my SpamCop address -- that is, it's not the "forwarding" address to which SpamCop sends things when they aren't "held mail". It's my "filtered email address" that's apparently bouncing message from SpamCop itself!

I've seen other reports about this where the issue seems to be that SpamCop can't get the message to the receiving user, but when the failing address is a spamcop.net address, what does that mean is going on?

I have never seen any bit of a mail server error message, and the "Subject:" has always been blank. It's happened a number of times today that I've seen the message when I click the Report spam (manually) tab.

Any thoughts?

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Thanks, I further modified what you modified.

30325[/snapback]

Is there a chance to address the case where it's not your "secret address" but rather your spamcop.net (public) address that's bouncing? (I haven't seen a good explanation of how or why that happens, and there's never any "Subject" or mail-server message when it happens to me.)

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James, the problem you described in your Topic "Bounce flag set on my spamcop.net address, This keeps happening..." happened to me, too, but only once. I have merged your Topic with this one, and placed a pointer to it in the SpamCop Reporting Help Forum.

Edited by Jeff G.

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I have notified JT again.

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Is there a chance to address the case where it's not your "secret address" but rather your spamcop.net (public) address that's bouncing?  (I haven't seen a good explanation of how or why that happens, and there's never any "Subject" or mail-server message when it happens to me.)

30365[/snapback]

James: This error, to my experience is NEVER about the secret address and always about where spamcop reporting is trying to send the confirmation. If the secret address were bouncing, then spamcop reporting server would never receive the submittal and the system would not know you even attempted to submit. You should get an actual bounce from your ISP in that case. The error message is letting you know that spamcop saw a bounce sending you a message. That address will be the address you log into the reporting web page with and may be a spamcop.net email address.

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JT and Don researched my report of this problem, and Don found that the bounce was caused by Yahoo! UK's mailservers refusing for three days a "SpamCop Quick reporting data" email that was auto-forwarded by my SpamCop Email System Account on the 13th while I was testing the hypothesis that forwarding from all SpamCop Email System Accounts was broken in relation to the Spamcop not forwarding Topic. This Topic's "Bounce error" problem is no longer happening for me. I have suggested some ways to make the "Bounce error" message clearer.

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I just received the following on http://mailsc.spamcop.net/:followed by a "Problem resolved" Button.  I clicked that Button and the system responded "Bounce flag reset, thank you."  I don't know how this could have happened, and I don't have time right now to ask TPTB, but I wanted to document it as I haven't seen it documented here.

30310[/snapback]

Just so there's no confusion ... http://mailsc.spamcop.net/ serves only SpamCop reporting accounts. When you're logged in there, you're logged into the spam reporting system. This issue has nothing to do with the SpamCop Email and Filtering service.

- Don -

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Maybe I can clarify some things.

Responses from the reporting system to user spam submissions are always sent to the address on the account.

When the user is a SpamCop Email Filtering Service user, the response goes to his spamcop.net address. Those addresses almost never bounce because the account would have to be in good standing when he reported the spam. It's possible that the account could expire before the reporting system responds, or JeffT could suffer a system crash in the interim. Not very likely scenarios.

What you're seeing is where the address to which the user's SpamCop account is forwarded has suddenly stopped working for some reason.

In that case, when Jeff's server tries and fails to deliver the message to the final destination, it will send the bounce to the user's reporting account, where the bounce is logged and the reporting account suspended.

If the message gets beyond Jeff's system, the bounce will likely be returned to the user's spamcop.net address and nothing will happen as far as the reporting account is concerned. Not sure where the bounce would go once the message gets past Jeff's server.

In any case, if mail is returned to user.a12345z[at]bounces.spamcop.net, it will cause the account to be automatically suspended.

- Don -

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Don, thanks for the clarification.

If the message gets beyond Jeff's system, the bounce will likely be returned to the user's spamcop.net address and nothing will happen as far as the reporting account is concerned.  Not sure where the bounce would go once the message gets past Jeff's server.

30411[/snapback]

When referring to Jeff T. in public, please refer to him as Jeff T., JT, or jefft so as not to confuse him with me. Also, please note that RFC-compliant servers will bounce to user.a12345z[at]bounces.spamcop.net, not-so-compliant servers will bounce to SpamCop <spamcop[at]devnull.spamcop.net>, and very badly configured servers will bounce to postmaster[at]bounces.spamcop.net, postmaster[at]devnull.spamcop.net, or the not-directly-usable postmaster[at]spamcop.net or abuse[at]spamcop.net.

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What you're seeing is where the address to which the user's SpamCop account is forwarded has suddenly stopped working for some reason.

30411[/snapback]

I am now really confused, and a bit worried, about this.

As a SpamCop email system user who doesn't use the web-mail feature (non-spam mail is forwarded to a Comcast.net "secret" email address), I normally only go to the "Held mail" page. There, I might find a message or two to forward, but normally I end up "quick reporting" almost all of the messages. I cannot remember any case where a message forwarded from the "held mail" page has not arrived.

I also get a lot of summaries about my quick reporting -- 32 of them since 7/15, including one today (7/28).

Don't all those messages go to the same "forwarding" account, or could I have configured some of them to go elsewhere?

Only when SpamCop lets through something that I decide to report as spam do I end up going to the SpamCop "report spam" page. Should I be going there regularly, just to clear the flag in case it gets set? Is it possible to see any info about what happened when the flag gets set? (I never have any info; it always just says "Subject:" and nothing else.)

If you're right that the "bounce, click if ok" message on the "report spam" page means that my forwarding account is broken, what's happening to the email that has not been "held" (because SpamCop thought it wasn't spam) when the forwarding account isn't working? Is it being thrown away?

I get plenty of email, my forwarding account's mail server (Comcast) has never been down for as much as 3-4 hours (that I've noticed), and I've never seen anything from Comcast's servers that says it's rejected anything from anywhere. (And why would they be rejecting anything?)

Could anyone possibly look at what's been happening re my account? My SpamCop user name is jvm_cop.

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SpamCop Email System Accounts are generally purchased by people who are suffering from the spam in their inboxes. These are generally people who either frequently report spam using the SpamCop Parsing and Reporting Service, pay close attention to their inboxes, or both. If you do neither, the theory goes, why should you care if your email messages go missing?

Typically, in the cases of email messages auto-forwarded from the SpamCop Email System to your secret account elsewhere, either the messages will bounce immediately (because your secret account is over quota or there is some other 500-level permanent failure at your secret account's mailserver), or they will be sit in a retry queue until they have been undeliverable for 72 hours (3 days). As soon as one message (such as a "SpamCop has accepted n email for processing" message or "Quick reporting data" summary) bounces back to a spamid or user address at bounces.spamcop.net, the bounce flag is set and SpamCop systems will stop trying to generate email messages to your secret account. Other messages, of course, will bounce back to their SMTP Envelope Senders as and when appropriate.

If you are not receiving the email you are especting at your secret account, it would behoove you to check your SpamCop.net - Welcome registered user reporting webpage to see if the bounce flag is set for your Account.

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I just received the following on http://mailsc.spamcop.net/:followed by a "Problem resolved" Button.  I clicked that Button and the system responded "Bounce flag reset, thank you."  I don't know how this could have happened, and I don't have time right now to ask TPTB, but I wanted to document it as I haven't seen it documented here.

30310[/snapback]

I've been getting it for a few days too. After re-reading the error msg a few times, it seems that my secret email address host - ReadyHosting.com - is reporting that SpamCop is sending out mail for which SPF is incorrectly configured:

http://spf.pobox.com/why.html?sender=user.....com%20(#5.7.1)

My setup is:

publicaddress[at]readyhosting ---> me[at]spamcop ---> secretaddress[at]readyhosting

So do you think this is a SpamCop issue or is the problem with ReadyHosting?

Thanks in advance,

g r a h a m

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It looks like someone at SpamCop needs to update the SPF record for bounces.spamcop.net. Currently it is set to:

"v=spf1 ip4:64.74.133.224/27 -all"

If they in fact send these messages from the IP address 216.154.195.49 (which is c60.cesmail.net), systems using SPF will reject them.

If the message originated elsewhere and was relayed through 216.154.195.49, someone needs to fix their SRS settings.

EDIT: Upon further reflection, I don't think you need to have SPF active on your sekrit account, because it should only receive messages forwarded from the SpamCop Mail System anyways. Turn SPF off or put in an exception for 216.154.195.32/27 and your problem should go away.

Edited by swingspacers

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I believe you all are describing one of the problems with SPF .... As usual, I stand to be smacked hard if I'm wrong, but here's what I believe ....

the "bounces.spamcop" address is from the Reporting side of the house .....

The cesmail servers are JT's systems on the other coast.

Thus the SPF records pointed out are 'correct' for the sending system, but the SPF filters/checks are trying to apply that data to the system that "Forwarded" that e-mail .... This "problem" is in the FAQ at the SPF support pages, allegedly hopes are that yet another bit of modification called SRS might be the magic to solve this issue (someday, somewhere, <g>)

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