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danbar

Any idea why Im black listed?

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i appologiseif this has to be moved moved as i cant figure out where you want this posting.

I have a mate with a mail washer, I sent him an e-mail and according to him im black listed by spamcop.

My e-mail address is danbar[at]myjoint.wanadoo.co.uk

As it happens im be mailed to death at the minute wiuth spam if that mean anything.

please keep any help or advice anyone offers really simple as im a bit of a pc biff

thanks for ya time

dan

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I sent him an e-mail and according to him im black listed by spamcop.

34552[/snapback]

Email addresses are not listed by spamcop, IP addresses are. If your friend can provide the IP address that was listed, we might be able to help.

Also, check out the SPAMCOP FAQ linked at the top of the page. There is a link labeled "Why am I Blocked?" that may help explain it.

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unfotunately he just wiped it once he had read it, that helps.

he has now been on regedit64.net and he has read something that seems to point towards my isp, ie wanadoo are the ones black listed and not me. however as im with wanadoo that just means im listed too.

he has sent me this mail to try and help

The IP Address above was LISTED in the DNSBL on:

3/16/2005 10:23:24 AM [GMT-5]

Category: ABUSE

Description: HIJACK/RELAY

The IP Address is in a Block of IP Addresses Listed in the DNSBL!

Block: 193.252.22.156/32

First Listing Date: 3/16/2005 10:23:24 AM [GMT-5]

Description: smtp3.wanadoo.co.uk

The IP Address is in the following Network

Network: 193.252.22.128/27

Domain: uk.wanadoo.com

Abuse Email: abuse[at]uk.wanadoo.com

First Listing Date: 3/16/2005 10:23:24 AM [GMT-5]

Description: abuse[at]fsmail.net

so much for keepingthis simple............

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Yes, and after you've looked there ...

... The IP Address above was LISTED in the DNSBL on: ...

34555[/snapback]

That was the part needed. But
... The IP Address is in a Block of IP Addresses Listed in the DNSBL!

34555[/snapback]

doesn't sound like SpamCop (blocks not listed for a start). Using the information
... Block: 193.252.22.156/32 ...

Description: smtp3.wanadoo.co.uk

The IP Address is in the following Network

Network: 193.252.22.128/27

Domain: uk.wanadoo.com ...

34555[/snapback]

http://www.senderbase.org/search?searchStr...3.252.22.128/27 gives (Addresses in 193.252.22.128/27 used to send email)

193.252.22.156 smtp3.wanadoo.co.uk

193.252.22.158 smtp1.wanadoo.co.uk

193.252.22.157 smtp2.wanadoo.co.uk

193.252.22.143 mail-in.freeserve.com

193.252.22.142 mail-in.freeserve.com

193.252.22.141 mail-in.freeserve.com

http://www.spamcop.net/w3m?action=checkblo...=193.252.22.156 gives

193.252.22.156 not listed in bl.spamcop.net. But 193.252.22.158 is listed (almost timed out right now).

Reporting addresses:

abuse[at]fsmail.net

abuse[at]freeserve.com

postmaster[at]fsmail.net

abuse[at]energis.com

abuse[at]francetelecom.com

abuse[at]wanadoo.fr

Doesn't quite match up with the data as I see it but yes there is a SpamCop block applying to one of the servers your mail goes through and wanadoo wanadoo (sorry, the devil made me do it) something about locating the (assumed) compromised user machine and getting their customer to fix it or the whole thing will start up again!

Edited by Farelf

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i appologiseif this has to be moved moved as i cant figure out where you want this posting.

I would like some help on that .... you titled your post using the word Blacklisted ...state you can't figure out where to post it ...

SpamCop Reporting Help

A forum to help users with the SpamCop Reporting System. Questions about SpamCop Email Accounts should be directed to the appropriate forum, not this one.

Odd, I just can't seem to tie anything about "blocked e-mail" directly into something about "the Reporting System" ...

SpamCop Blocklist Help

A forum to help those who use or have had their e-mail blocked based on use of the SpamCopDNSBL by the receiving ISP.

Please read the "Why Am I Blocked?" FAQ entry before posting.

well, granted, the word there is "block" not "black" ... but .. it sure seems awfully dang close to what you were attemptin to describe. I won't touch the all too obvious (to me) extra words about "reading something before posting" ....

I'd like to hear your suggestion as to just how to make the these / all Forum titles and descriptions any more clearer .... please .... it seems like I've been moving mis-placed posts all day ... (and yes, I moved this from Reporting Help to Blocklist Help)

I have a mate with a mail washer, I sent him an e-mail and according to him im black listed by spamcop.

The "normal" complaint in this situation is that your e-mail would have bounced or been deleted at your friend's server. Anything else would suggest that it had been received .. suggesting "what's the problem?"

My e-mail address is danbar[at]myjoint.wanadoo.co.uk

Technically, no one cares at this point. Had you read the suggested items first or any of the many other posts, topics, discussions, you'd have noted that it's the IP address that matters in this discussion.

As it happens im be mailed to death at the minute wiuth spam if that mean anything.

Obviously something lost in translation, as I can't make any sense out of that.

please keep any help or advice anyone offers really simple as im a bit of a pc biff

34552[/snapback]

not enough data in this post to say much of anything in particular on your situation.

Your second post has nothing related to SpamCopDNSBL involved, but noting again that apparently the e-mail was actually received .. once again, what's the problem exactly?

Jeff G. noted a previous discussion on the same IP address ... lots of folks in other parts of the world are aware of wannado (and have them blocked in total) ...

Farelf attempted to paint the larger picture, but .... only you / your friend can actually fill in the details to pinpoit the actual situation. At this point, you've provided nothing to clearly show the SpamCopDNSBL as being part of "your" issue (at this time)

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The problem is that he only recieved my e-mail as im on his list as a "friend" but he was still alerted to the fact that im blacklisted. Therefore those who dont have me as a "friend" , ie any of the industries i have been mailing( to no reply) arent getting them.

No your right in pointing out that the only information that i did give you was from something called regedit64 or something like that, well spotted. . He had deleted the original ip thing that had said that it was spamcop who had blacklisted me, i thought that maybe any information was better than none.

As from reading other questions posted on your forum and also seeing the amount of posts that are moved elsewhere on the forum i can only assume that your site is obviously very user friendly and it must just be me................

Your links and the way you refer to other parts of this site for information are great, however as most of the jargon on here means sodall to me I just wanted someone in the know to purhaps maybe explain what was wrong. Cant wait to buy this product, honest.

I only asked for a bit of help!

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Cant wait to buy this product, honest.

34563[/snapback]

There is no "product" to buy. There is a parsing service to help track down spammers and send reports which can be free or paid. There is also a mail filtering service available for $30/year.

I only asked for a bit of help!

34563[/snapback]

You asked a question that gets asked a lot, so much it is a Frequently Asked Question and has been answered in the FAQ.

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Therefore those who dont have me as a "friend" , ie any of the industries i have been mailing( to no reply) arent getting them.

The receiving ISP or 'industry' has to be using the spamcop blocklist or another blocklist that lists the IP address of the wanadoo server that your email comes from in order for your email to be either blocked or tagged as coming from a spam source.

In other words, not everyone uses spamcop blocklist or mailwasher. However, as others have pointed out, wanadoo is bad about telling customers that they have a compromised computer (where the spammer uses an innocent person's computer to send spam). That means that lots of people are blocking wanadoo without using spamcop. Sometimes you will get a return message that your email wasn't received (if they are using the spamcop blocklist technique). However, if they are using mailwasher or other content filters, there is no way to tell you that your email has been deleted. Unless you have a friend who will tell you.

Your links and the way you refer to other parts of this site for information are great, however as most of the jargon on here means sodall to me

We have tried to make explanations as simple as possible, but it does require that you have some interest (and possibly aptitude) to understand the concepts of how email works. I am an end user who is not technically fluent either. My knowledge of how email works is about the same as my knowledge of how my automobile works. I do have a basic understanding of both and also what are the symptoms when they are not working properly. There are people who throw away tires because the tire picked up a nail (IMHO - In My Humble Opinion - an example of someone who is very, very ignorant about automobiles. Someone like that cannot be paying attention.)

There are lots of people who will help you understand the basics - though many will point you to the FAQ because we have worked on presenting the information in the clearest possible way in the FAQ and the glossary. If you have a problem understanding, maybe you can help us make it better. All of this has been done by people like you. None of us works for SpamCop. I was very ignorant in the beginning and asked some really dumb questions so there is hope that you, too, can understand!

So read the FAQ and if there is a portion that is confusing to you, ask.

Miss Betsy

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You have all been a help, no question there. Just the be-littling little snipes could of been left out, why try to make someone feel more stupid than they all ready do. I admit that i havent a clue. I understand this may be something you have all covered many times in the past but also understand this is a new problem to me.

It doesnt help that i cant find my way around the site yet, this only adds to my confusion. Once i can navigate around the site im sure ill begin taking more in on the hows and whats. I have the aptitude but never the interest. Seeing as there is now a reason to know why and how it works then i guess i will.

I now know that its wanadoo that is at fault and its not me personally that is considered a pain in the arse and spamming people. Ill be contacting wanadoo and asking why theyre not providing me with the e-mail service that im paying for and see where that gets me.

But thanks for your help and if i do ask a stupid question in the future please dont point out to me how stupid it is but just remember that we all have to start somewhere.

Dan

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Just the be-littling little snipes could of been left out, why try to make someone feel more stupid than they all ready do. ..... if i do ask a stupid question in the future please dont point out to me how stupid it is but just remember that we all have to start somewhere.

34605[/snapback]

Let me make the easy assumption that you don't like my responses ... I'm asking for something specific and to ensure there is no misunderstanding, I provided the specific data that I found confusing. Where do you see any "be-littling" or name-calling?

It doesnt help that i cant find my way around the site yet, this only adds to my confusion. Once i can navigate around the site im sure ill begin taking more in on the hows and whats.

And yet, that was one of my specific questions. Ignoring the possible language barrier, just why is it so hard to navigate?

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Just the be-littling little snipes could of been left out, why try to make someone feel more stupid than they all ready do.

The people who are going to be the biggest help to you are the 'techies' and they don't only speak jargon, but they tend to use 'blunter' language. There is nothing personal in it so don't take it personally. No one is trying to belittle you - that's just the way they talk.

It helps to remember that you are not getting help from customer service, but from the guys who are working at it. What they are good at is finding and fixing email problems.

And you are not the only one who finds it difficult to decide which forum to post in - hence the questions "What was confusing?" "How can it be made clearer?"

Miss Betsy

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OK techies, as you have been called.

This is where ill need help again as according to wanadoo im the first person to ever complain of this problem ( ye right )

Here is what they have to say:

Dear Daniel,

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately, we have not received information regarding the

difficulties you are currently encountering. If you still have a

problem requiring a response, please forward a detailed description, so

that we may be of assistance.

If you have any further queries then please do not hesitate to get in

contact with us again.

Kind Regards

Kimberley

Wanadoo Technical Support

Now as i dont understand the problem fully i dont know to eplain the problem so that they will understand me.

Any help please.

Dan

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Dear Kimberly

When I emailed my friend, my email was tagged as spam. I didn't understand why since I am just an ordinary person. This is the information that he sent me:

The IP Address above was LISTED in the DNSBL on:

3/16/2005 10:23:24 AM [GMT-5]

Category: ABUSE

Description: HIJACK/RELAY

The IP Address is in a Block of IP Addresses Listed in the DNSBL!

Block: 193.252.22.156/32

First Listing Date: 3/16/2005 10:23:24 AM [GMT-5]

Description: smtp3.wanadoo.co.uk

The IP Address is in the following Network

Network: 193.252.22.128/27

Domain: uk.wanadoo.com

Abuse Email: abuse[at]uk.wanadoo.com

First Listing Date: 3/16/2005 10:23:24 AM [GMT-5]

Description: abuse[at]fsmail.net

In trying to understand what the problem was, I discovered that wanadoo servers are on many blocklists. I don't completely understand everything, but apparently wanadoo does not stop customers from sending spam and therefore, many people block email from wanadoo. It appears that the spam is coming from customers who have infected computers that send the spam without the customer's knowledge.

It seems incredible that wanadoo is not aware of the fact that their servers are listed on many blocklists!

As I said, I am an ordinary person. I pay wanadoo to provide me with email service. I expect that when I send an email that it will go to where I send it. If there are problems then wanadoo should take care of them. I should not have to explain to you that your servers are blocked and that email from me is being tagged as possible spam. You should be making sure that your servers are not sending spam so that this problem does not happen to ordinary customers.

Please assure me that, in the future, my email will not be tagged as spam. It is wanadoo's job to provide me with reliable email service. I do not consider it reliable service to have my email tagged as possible spam. And it is possible for wanadoo to prevent this.

Sincerely,

How's that? Unfortunately, you will probably get more gibberish from Kimberly. If wanadoo is the only practical way to connect to the internet for you, then you may just have to stop using their email service and get another one - a free one or a paid one. Changing your email address will also help you to stop getting spam yourself as long as you choose an alpha numeric one like dan6ar and have a throwaway account that you use to enter your email address anywhere on the web (like a free hotmail account or sneakemail).

If you can choose another way to connect to the internet, I would tell wanadoo that unless they can give you reliable email service, you are cancelling your account.

And I hope that you are sure that your computer is not infected and one of the reasons that wanadoo is being blocked!

Miss Betsy

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OK techies, as you have been called.

This is where ill need help again as according to wanadoo im the first person to ever complain of this problem ( ye right )

34652[/snapback]

While other servers may be listed as well, you seem to be complaining about 193.252.22.156.

Point them to:

http://www.spamcop.net/w3m?action=blcheck&ip=193.252.22.156

193.252.22.156 listed in bl.spamcop.net (127.0.0.2)

If there are no reports of ongoing objectionable email from this system it will be delisted automatically in approximately 21 hours.

Causes of listing

System has sent mail to SpamCop spam traps in the past week (spam traps are secret, no reports or evidence are provided by SpamCop)

SpamCop users have reported system as a source of spam less than 10 times in the past week

It appears this listing is caused by misdirected bounces. We have a FAQ which covers this topic: Why auto-responses are bad (Misdirected bounces). Please read this FAQ and heed the advice contained in it.

Reports for that IP address would have gone to:

Reporting addresses:

abuse[at]fsmail.net

abuse[at]freeserve.com

postmaster[at]fsmail.net

abuse[at]energis.com

abuse[at]francetelecom.com

abuse[at]wanadoo.fr

Report History:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Saturday, October 22, 2005 7:47:25 AM -0400:

Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Friday, October 21, 2005 2:32:11 AM -0400:

Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Monday, October 17, 2005 3:17:10 PM -0400:

CUSTOM =?Big5?B?oa5PVkVSUlVOUw==?= EMBROIDERED PATCHES. POLICE, FIRE, FBI, BO...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Saturday, October 15, 2005 4:08:10 AM -0400:

Returned mail: User unknown

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Saturday, October 15, 2005 4:08:09 AM -0400:

Returned mail: User unknown

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Saturday, October 15, 2005 3:52:20 AM -0400:

Hypnosis CD's

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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To start with, you need a copy of the "entire" message indicating that the message you have sent was affected by a blocking list. As mentioned before, the only message that you have posted is not complete, it starts with the phrase "The IP Address above was LISTED in the DNSBL......." Also for the message to be complete it also needs a copy of the complete headers. see How do I get my email program to reveal the full, unmodified email?

You should also read the following:

Why Am I Blocked?

How to post a question

Further frustration here as occured in that nothing you have presented proves that any message ever sent by you has be affected in any way by SpamCop (but the face that you are using Wanadoo to send mail does give a good indication that there is a very high probability that the mail you send will be affected by SpamCop and nearly every other blocking list (numbering in the hundreds) in the world). You mentioned "DNSBL" this has no relationship with SpamCop.

For many of us, the name "wanadoo.com" = spam. You would spend a small fortune just to buy enough paper to print out copies of every piece of spam that had a connection with that name.

If you want to know if the mail server you are using is listed by SpamCop, send yourself an email message and post a copy of the complete headers here, or better yet, set up a free reporting account with SpamCop and submit the message you sent to yourself, cancel the reports and post the Tracking URL here.

You will need to spend some time reading the FAQ to know how to do it. To make it even easier for you to find it click on the following link and it will take your there: FAQ

If you don't want to take the time to learn something about spam, SpamCop and email in general, then go away. You are wasting our time. If you do want to learn something, then start by reading the FAQ and if you have a problem understanding something, post your question here and we will be glad to help explain it.

I do not know how to make it any simplier.

PS during the time it took me to write this, Miss Betsy and Steven P. Underwood both wrote and posted their replies. Miss Betsy gave you an excellent place to start with the information that you currently have, she even took the time to write the letter for you. Talk about making it simple!

But to repeat, until you tell us the IP address of the mail servers that you use to send mail, I do not know what else to tell you.

Edited by dbiel

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you need a copy of the "entire" message indicating that the message you have sent was affected by a blocking list.

I don't think the Help desk at wanadoo needs the entire message. Wanadoo should be aware that it is on blocklists. At this point, it doesn't matter which blocklist. What danbar wants to do is to explain to wanadoo, that he wants it fixed; he wants his email to go to his friend without being tagged as possible spam.

Miss Betsy

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Dear Miss Betsy

It is hard to keep current.

I read danbar's message and started my reply.

In the mean time you posted your excellent reply.

That was followed by the reply from Steven Underwood.

Then my reply finally was finished and posted.

Noticed and read your reply, went back to add a PS to my reply just to find that when I posted my edited post you had already replied back to my post.

Nobody can say that we do not repond in a timely manner to questions.

Thank you for your very detailed and spoon fed reply to danbar. Your provided him something he can copy, paste and forward to his provider, though I doubt if it will do any good. Your suggestion to change email providers is the only real solution to his problem but even that may not work if the mail gets traced all the way back to his internet connection (Wanadoo) which would not surprise any of us if it appeared on several blocking lists especially those that use entire IP ranges to block mail.

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I don't think the Help desk at wanadoo needs the entire message.  Wanadoo should be aware that it is on blocklists.  At this point, it doesn't matter which blocklist.  What danbar wants to do is to explain to wanadoo, that he wants it fixed; he wants his email to go to his friend without being tagged as possible spam.

Miss Betsy

34659[/snapback]

Do you really believe that anything that danbar says, does, or attempts will make any difference to Wanadoo? He has a better chance of driving a car from Los Angeles CA to Paris France on one tank of gas. Sounds impossible to me, but who knows, impossible things have been known to happen.

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Do you really believe that anything that danbar says, does, or attempts will make any difference to Wanadoo?

No, I don't have much hope (though I did get through to Hotmail once and got some action!)

However, if people don't complain, wanadoo will never, ever change. If enough people complain, it is possible that wanadoo will change (and maybe even comcast).

It is the 'senders' of legitimate email that need to be aware and to choose responsible email providers if there is going to be any change.

iPowerWeb, if you know enough to ask, will change you to a non-blocked server. If enough iPowerWeb customers knew that, then there wouldn't be any traffic on their blocked servers, would there?

Miss Betsy

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No, I don't have much hope (though I did get through to Hotmail once and got some action!) ...

34683[/snapback]

All three of wanadoo.co.uk outwards mail servers are in the SCBL at this instant - that should indeed give some leverage to customer complaints (considering also how many other BLs they must be on by now, haven't checked). Definitely worth the effort. I actually got a very nice response from wanadoo.fr once from one of my reports. It possibly helped that I used an on-line translator to make it in French. After their mirth subsided and they wiped the tears from their eyes they assured me they would move heaven and earth to remove the blot from their escutcheon of which I complained. And lo, no more spam from that source for some time. Go for it.

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Fobbed off.

Dear Dan,

Thank you for your email.

Wanadoo is in contact with several well-recognised blacklisting

organisations, such as www.spamcop.net and www.spamhaus.org, helping us

to make sure that their subscribers do not block our mail servers. It

is not always possible for us to keep in contact with all of these

organisations.

Unfortunately there is nothing we can do if an organisation chooses to

subscribe to this blacklist.

We are continually striving to improve this situation wherever possible

and apologise for any inconvenience.

If you have any further queries then please do not hesitate to get in

contact with us again.

Kind Regards

Martin

Wanadoo Technical Support

But on the plus side im making my way through FAQ and things are making a alittle more sense now.

Dan

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Thanks for not giving up. It is definately a slow learning process.

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Yes the posted Wanadoo response leaves much to be desired.

Have you tried Wanadoo.uk's own forums? It would have to be another way to air concerns - and in the company of other customers (getting back to the "leverage" concept).

http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/communicate/forums/forums_rules.htm

The rules look fairly standard. The standard complaint with some/many of these "proprietary" fora is that they are all talk, no action - suspected to be a cheap way to avoid effective complaint handling in fact. I don't know about the Wanadoo one. There might be a third party forum somewhere, which might be better (an Australian one of this kind is Whirlpool, mostly tech but also has a forum for users of each major service provider. And the respective support staff - in some but not all cases - actually respond). Worked for me on one occasion with a particular ISP when normal abuse handling was overloaded/unresponsive (during a virus run). If there's something similar for the UK?

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