Jeff G. Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 There are a couple number of reasons why this could happen. The first reason is that your Reporting Account has somehow turned into an ISP Account (your clues are "ISP control center" and the "Request Reports" and "Show routes" Tabs). This is rumored to happen if you send a SpamCop Report to your Reporting Account's Email Address. If you have a Free Reporting Account, the easiest way to proceed is to establish another Free Reporting Account (using a different email address) and avoid sending SpamCop Reports to that different email address. If you want to convert your ISP Account back to a Free Reporting Account or you have a Premium Member Account or SpamCop Email System Account, you will need to contact a SpamCop Admin via service[at]admin.spamcop.net with details. The second reason is that you aren't logged in any more (your clue is the "Login" Button in the top right corner). Please login and try again. For more information on SpamCop Account Types, please see FAQ Entry: SpamCop Account Types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Somehow that doesn't sound like a good title for a FAQ. It isn't what the reporter asked and it isn't either of the suggestions from Wazoo. Perhaps you have more experience with this - just my reaction. The first reason is that your Reporting Account has somehow turned into an ISP Account (your clues are "ISP control center" and the "Request Reports" and "Show routes" Tabs). This is rumored to happen if you send a SpamCop Report to your Reporting Account's Email Address. If you have a Free Reporting Account, the easiest way to proceed is to establish another Free Reporting Account (using a different email address) and avoid sending SpamCop Reports to that different email address. If you want to convert your ISP Account back to a Free Reporting Account or you have a Premium Member Account or SpamCop Email System Account, you will need to contact a SpamCop Admin via service[at]admin.spamcop.net with details IMHO, it needs more paragraphs to be easy to read. And I would put the 'Duh' explanation first. Miss Betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 Somehow that doesn't sound like a good title for a FAQ. It isn't what the reporter asked and it isn't either of the suggestions from Wazoo.36406[/snapback] OK, how about "Why is there no box for me to paste spam into?" and the following? There are a couple of reasons why this could happen. 1. This may sound a little silly, but maybe you aren't logged in any more (your clue is the "Login" Button in the top right corner). If this is the reason, please login and try again. 2. Your Reporting Account could have somehow been converted into an ISP Account (your clues are "ISP control center", presence of the "Control Center", "Request Reports", and "Show routes" Tabs, and absence of the "Report spam", "Mailhosts", and perhaps other Tabs). This conversion is rumored to happen if anyone sends a SpamCop Report to your Reporting Account's Email Address. If this is the case and you have a Free Reporting Account, the easiest way to proceed is to establish another Free Reporting Account (using a different email address) and avoid sending SpamCop Reports to that different email address. If you want to convert your ISP Account back to a Free Reporting Account or you have a Premium Member Account or SpamCop Email System Account, you will need to contact a SpamCop Admin via service[at]admin.spamcop.net with details. For more information on SpamCop Account Types, please see FAQ Entry: SpamCop Account Types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 That sounds better. (and is close to a suggestion in the other thread). Good Work! Miss Betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turetzsr Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 ...Yes, that sounds good, but shouldn't <snip> 1. This may sound a little silly, but maybe aren't logged in any more (your clue is the "Login" Button in the top right corner). If this is the reason, please login and try again. 36407[/snapback] be 1. This may sound a little silly, but maybe you aren't logged in any more (your clue is the "Login" Button in the top right corner). If this is the reason, please log in and try again.(remove the bolding and coloring of the added text; "log in" as a verb is two words)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 dbiel's How to ... write up at How to log into the web based reporting window ... target spot for this additional issue/data .... Title: Where is (or I can't find) the spam reporting window ... ???? If you see you are not logged in. If you see ISP Control Center, your account .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 OK, please ignore the changes in Linear Post #3 above, here is the latest draft: Title: Where is my spam reporting window? If you see at the bottom of the left center panel and the "Login" Button near the top right corner, you are not logged in. Please log in using the the "Login" Button or the the "Login" Tab. For more information about how to log in, please see How to log into the web based reporting window. If you see "ISP control center", your Reporting Account could have somehow been converted into an ISP Account (other clues are presence of the "Control Center", "Request Reports", and "Show routes" Tabs and absence of the "Report spam", "Mailhosts", and perhaps other Tabs). This conversion is rumored to happen if anyone sends a SpamCop Report to your Reporting Account's Email Address. If this is the case and you have a Free Reporting Account, the easiest way to proceed is to establish another Free Reporting Account (using a different email address) and avoid sending SpamCop Reports to that different email address. If you want to convert your ISP Account back to a Free Reporting Account or you have a Premium Member Account or SpamCop Email System Account, you will need to contact a SpamCop Admin via service[at]admin.spamcop.net with details. For more information on SpamCop Account Types, please see FAQ Entry: SpamCop Account Types. P.S. (not part of the FAQ) I try to follow TPTB's nomenclature and conventions (capitalizing stuff I feel is important), but not within quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjvgpuryy Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 This conversion is rumored to happen if anyone sends a SpamCop Report to your Reporting Account's Email Address.36420[/snapback] My two cents: I think that the word rumored in the above should be made to stand out in some way (bold will work) and any information and/or explanations about the rumor could also be included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 After considering the two cents of the unpronounceable qjvgpuryy, here is the latest draft: Title: Where is my spam reporting window? If you see at the bottom of the left center panel and the "Login" Button near the top right corner, you are not logged in. Please log in using the the "Login" Button or the the "Login" Tab. For more information about how to log in, please see How to log into the web based reporting window. If you see "ISP control center", your Reporting Account could have somehow been converted into an ISP Account (other clues are presence of the "Control Center", "Request Reports", and "Show routes" Tabs and absence of the "Report spam", "Mailhosts", and perhaps other Tabs). This conversion appears to happen if anyone sends a SpamCop Report to your Reporting Account's Email Address; it happened that way to one of my Accounts, but the exact mechanism has yet to be revealed. If this is the case and you have a Free Reporting Account, the easiest way to proceed is to establish another Free Reporting Account (using a different email address) and avoid sending SpamCop Reports to that different email address. If you want to convert your ISP Account back to a Free Reporting Account or you have a Premium Member Account or SpamCop Email System Account, you will need to contact a SpamCop Admin via service[at]admin.spamcop.net with details in order to preserve your investment, as only a SpamCop Admin can accomplish that conversion. For more information on SpamCop Account Types, please see FAQ Entry: SpamCop Account Types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I think that's about all one can say ... This is the only conjectured response I can recall seeing other than Don's statement (a number of times) that "sometimes, bits in the database just flip" .... which sure doesn't leave one with a warm and fuzzy feeling ... now if I could figure out how to use image tags in the last FAQ thing I'm playing with ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 I think that's about all one can say ... This is the only conjectured response I can recall seeing ot[he]r than Don's statement (a number of times) that "sometimes, bits in the database just flip" .... which sure doesn't leave one with a warm and fuzzy feeling36473[/snapback] Perhaps Don is unaware of my experience and newly conjectured explanation (and the other less detailed anecdotes of experiences here and in the newsgroups). I wanted to keep that Account as an ISP Account for documentation purposes, so I didn't tell him. More precisely, I sent lots of copies of Reports to that email address before I ever tried to make it a Free Reporting Account, and was surprised when the result of trying to make it a Free Reporting Account was that it immediately became an ISP Account.now if I could figure out how to use image tags in the last FAQ thing I'm playing with ...36473[/snapback] I suppose you could just replace that image with the text "Beware of Cheap Imitations". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Perhaps Don is unaware of my experience and newly conjectured explanation (and the other less detailed anecdotes of experiences here and in the newsgroups). 36496[/snapback] He posted that a long time ago (newsgroups) ... and I either haven't used the right search paramaters or this is yet another example of the data lost due to the "No-Archive" setting he was using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 He posted that a long time ago (newsgroups) ... and I either haven't used the right search paramaters or this is yet another example of the data lost due to the "No-Archive" setting he was using.36497[/snapback] I haven't been following the newsgroups too closely (except spamcop.mail for a long time and spamcop threads that started after 10/27 13:26 EST -0500 (working backwards except the "Changes to the Official FAQ" thread which I'm still trying to grok)), but all of Don's answers that I've seen have been similar to or slightly longer versions of "Please email me the Reporting Account's Email Address via service[at]admin.spamcop.net". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 From: "Wazoo" To: "SpamCop, Argyle" Subject: Working on a FAQ - what else is new? Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 23:17:57 -0600 I feel stupid - what am I missing http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5446 Started this last one ... work thus far can be seen at http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5451 However, some of your old posts have come into question and I cannot find the in the newsgroup Archives ... I know you offered up more than just "bits just sometimes toggle in the database" but, those posts I've not been able to find ... are there any other (obvious) reasons that the "bits get toggled" ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpamCopAdmin Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Perhaps Don is unaware of my experience and newly conjectured explanation (and the other less detailed anecdotes of experiences here and in the newsgroups). I wanted to keep that Account as an ISP Account for documentation purposes, so I didn't tell him. More precisely, I sent lots of copies of Reports to that email address before I ever tried to make it a Free Reporting Account, and was surprised when the result of trying to make it a Free Reporting Account was that it immediately became an ISP Account. The first time you sent a "User Notification" report to that address, SpamCop created an account for it and flagged it as an ISP abuse address. Since at that point, the account was nothing more than an email address, an ISP flag, and a count on the number of messages sent to the address, you were still able to use the anonsignup form to register it as a free account, but registering the address doesn't remove the ISP flag. The most common reason a reporting account suddenly gets changed to an ISP account is because a "User Notification" report is sent to the address. On rare occasions, a free reporting account will get changed to an ISP account by magic, especially if it's a brand new account. I have never been able to figure out how or why that happens. It's entirely possible that those addresses had been sent a SpamCop report of some kind at some time in the past and I didn't realize it. - Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 Don, thanks for that detailed explanation! Here is the latest draft, taking that explanation and more clarification into account: Title: Where is my spam reporting window? If you see at the bottom of the left center panel and the "Login" Button near the top right corner, you are not logged in. Please log in using the the "Login" Button or the the "Login" Tab. For more information about how to log in, please see How to log into the web based reporting window. If you see "ISP control center", your Reporting Account could have somehow been converted into an ISP Account (other clues are presence of the "Control Center", "Request Reports", and "Show routes" Tabs and absence of the "Report spam", "Mailhosts", and perhaps other Tabs). For more info on exactly how this conversion happens, please see Don's detailed explanation at http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...indpost&p=36516. If this is the case and you have a Free Reporting Account that was mistakenly converted into an ISP Account, the easiest and quickest way for you to proceed is to establish another Free Reporting Account (using a different email address) and avoid sending SpamCop Reports to that different email address. If you want to convert your ISP Account back to its former Account Type, you will need to contact a SpamCop Admin via service[at]admin.spamcop.net with details, as only a SpamCop Admin can accomplish that conversion. Doing so will preserve your investment (in your email address, and possibly in your Fuel or yearly fee). For more information on SpamCop Account Types, please see FAQ Entry: SpamCop Account Types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjvgpuryy Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 After considering the two cents of the unpronounceable qjvgpuryy, here is the latest draft: 36470[/snapback] Thank you and oops! I never thought about pronouncability! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 Thank you and oops! I never thought about pronouncability! 36529[/snapback] You're welcome. So, not even a first name or pronounceable nickname, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 (using a different email address) and avoid sending SpamCop Reports to that different email address. Is this what you meant (to say)??? Not sure if it was meant to be '"old" address' od '"reporting" address' ...??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 Is this what you meant (to say)??? Not sure if it was meant to be '"old" address' od '"reporting" address' ...??? 36531[/snapback] Let me give you all an example. Say you've got Email Address a[at]example.com (Address A). You (the reader, not necessarily Wazoo) register Address A as a SpamCop Free Reporter and report some spam. All is well and good. Somehow (see Don's explanation), Address A becomes an ISP Account. What I'm suggesting for immediate relief is to pull a different Email Address b[at]example.com (Address B, if you have one) out of your hat, and Report using Address B and its associated Confidential Submit Address. All is well and good again. However, if you Report to Address B, you will be set back to your previous situation (as Address B will then become an ISP Account), and will have to pull a third Email Address (if you have one) out of your hat, etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseam. Hopefully, at some point you will all learn not to send SpamCop Reports to the Email Addresses of Reporting-type SpamCop Accounts if you want to keep using such Accounts for Reporting. The intent of this Topic is to keep the "learning by painful experience" to a minimum, and to instead foster "learning by FAQ-reading". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 From the uninformed side of the screen; avoid sending SpamCop Reports SpamCop Report Types doesn't actually list a "SpamCop Report" as a distinct item. Don pointed to the "User Notification" as the trigger item. Technically, you probably mean the same thing but ... maybe that it's just that I don't see "bad reporting" being identified in any of this???? "reporting to SpamCop" .."SpamCop Report" ... possible newbie confusion point? However, it seems that it's the bad plan/action of "reporting a SpamCop Report" (which would go to the 'new' (?) reporting address?) .... (and just how did the user get a copy of a SpamCop Report / User Notification Report unless asked for by the user filling in a blank while doing the original report?) that sets up the suggested mode of a user changing his/her own bits .... If I'm not making any sense, I'm just taking a break here from trying to work on the PHP code for the PM archive 'problem' .... so maybe not a focused here as I should be ..??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 It hasn't been defined as "bad reporting," but rather following the letter of "Personal copies of outgoing reports", "Public standard report recipients", and "User Notification ... To:". "Personal copies of outgoing reports" on the "Preferences" pages actually suggests the use of "your secret address" (by default the email address you're using to login as a Free Reporter) as follows: If you wish to receive a copy of every outgoing report, enter your email address here. This should not be your spamcop address. Leave it blank, use your secret address, or another account you own. This is a bcc, so nobody else will be able to see this address. Note this will create a separate copy for each report even if there are multiple reports per spam."spamcop address" could be interpreted as "SpamCop Email System Email Address", whereas it probably means "SpamCop Parsing and Reporting Service Username". Is it any wonder that people actually send SpamCop Reports to their "secret address"? Yes, the above quoted text on the Preferences Pages has needed work to conform to reality for almost four years (since February of 2001) - please see http://news.spamcop.net/pipermail/spamcop-...ber/016002.html and http://news.spamcop.net/pipermail/spamcop-...ber/016024.html for details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Wow! .... Don contacted again ... From: "Wazoo" To: "SpamCop Admin" Cc: "SpamCop, Deputies" Subject: Re: Working on a FAQ - what else is new? Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:09:29 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- From: "SpamCop Admin" To: "Wazoo" Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 1:21 AM Subject: Re: Working on a FAQ - what else is new? > >I feel stupid - what am I missing > >http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5446 > >Started this last one ... work thus far can be seen at > >http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5451 > > > >However, some of your old posts have come into question and > >I cannot find the in the newsgroup Archives ... I know you offered > >up more than just "bits just sometimes toggle in the database" but, > >those posts I've not been able to find ... are there any other > >(obvious) reasons that the "bits get toggled" ???? > > I posted in the "FAQ Under Construction" forum. > > - Don - Hmmm, further banter after that brought up an interesting point, even making one wonder why this problem isn't happening more often ... Under Preferences (of a Reporting account) one sees the following; Personal copies of outgoing reports If you wish to receive a copy of every outgoing report, enter your email address here. This should not be your spamcop address. Leave it blank, use your secret address, or another account you own. Wouldn't the use of "your secret address" feed right into the feeding of a "User Notification" into that Reporting Account? Not to mention that this seems confusing after just stating "this should not be your spamcop address" ... assumedly written before SpamCop e-mail accounts existed (which doesn't really make sense, but then again, that's from a free-reporting account holder, so this access to "preferences" is actually a bit 'recent' ..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpamCopAdmin Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 "Personal copies of outgoing reports" on the "Preferences" pages actually suggests the use of "your secret address" (by default the email address you're using to login as a Free Reporter) as follows:"spamcop address" could be interpreted as "SpamCop Email System Email Address", whereas it probably means "SpamCop Parsing and Reporting Service Username". That's a holdover from when Julian was providing email service for members. I assume he had a reason for that at the time, but I don't know what it is. I'll submit a bug to get rid of it. - Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpamCopAdmin Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Personal copies of outgoing reports Using an address for either "Personal copies of outgoing reports" or "Public standard report recipients" will create an ISP account on our system for the address. Unless you use your *own* email address (the one registered for the reporting account), in which case it does *not* create an ISP account, nor does it change the reporting account to an ISP account. I suppose it might when the night is long and the moon is high, but I tested the process with two of my own accounts and it didn't have any effect. I don't see any reason why you can't put your own address in as a "Personal copies of outgoing reports" or "Public standard report" recipient. - Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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