ARG! Mail is blocked! HELP!

[StevenUnderwood]

You say you have a right not to get spam. That's nice. I have a right to send email! How about that!

You are not having any problems sending your mail. You are having issues getting it received. Mail server admins have the right to accept or reject any message for any reason. Our server, our rules. I could reject any message that came from a .com address if I wanted to and there is nothing the sender can do but complain to me and try to make me change that rule. My bosses on the other hand could do plenty

If I read one of your last posts properly (that you sent yourself a message that was rejected), then one of your ISP's (the receiving one) is also using spamcop to reject messages. Please let them know that is not the reccomended way to use the spamcop list. Most understand this but find spamcop trustworthy enough to continue using it in a blocking fashion.

[Miss Betsy]

Oh, and one more thing. I love how this is eeeeverybody's fault except spamcop. It's the ISP, it's the mail server, it's the spammers. Spamcop didn't do a thing! Oh, well, except put out some magical list that blocks everyone except spammers and can only be undone by who knows who because I still can't send email through outlook express. I get to wait until Monday because my lazy ISP is closed weekends. Hmmm... well, if this stupid spam block list didn't exist, (hey genius! You can hit delete and get rid of spam, did you know that? It's MUCH easier!) it wouldn't be an issue.

The *sender* is the only person who has control over whether anyone gets spam. If you share an IP address then you have a responsibility to insist on using a reliable server that does not send spam also.

It is not much easier to delete spam for those who get hundreds. There are some domains that are unusable because of the amount of spam that they receive, I understand. And another thing is that deleting suspicious looking email manually often deletes legitimate email without the sender ever knowing that their email was deleted as spam. With blocking at the server level, the sender gets a message and can take action. (and don't tell me that you never make a mistake! Even content filters are more accurate than individuals at identifying spam).

Oh, and did you read our 450 volume FAQ? the 'before you post' post? How about War and Peace? You can't get your mail and you're losing money by the second, but who cares? Read it anyway! It's not going to help a thing, but it will keep you busy long enough, hopefully your email will be working again - excuse me - maybe your ISP, or mail server or local wizard will have called the magic fairys and it will be three weeks from now and you might be able to send mail through that server again and you won't come in to the forum and complain!

The 'Why Am I Blocked?' FAQ covers what you needed to know. I know that non-technically fluent people who are in a hurry and upset are overwhelmed by the FAQ. However, if you are going to use email to conduct business then you need to know a little bit more about how it works so that you can avoid problems in the future. It would be worth your while to read the FAQ as you can find time.

Then you say there are so many like me that come in with the same issue. Well, maybe we have a point. Ever think of that? Maybe your spamcop BS doesn't WORK. You're BLOCKING the WRONG PEOPLE. According to your own site, the spammers are still spamming away!

If people like you understood the issues and understood how to conduct business on the internet, there would not be a problem with spam since people like you would demand reliable service from their email provider. The only ones who would be blocked would be spammers and incompetent email service providers.

You say you have a right not to get spam. That's nice. I have a right to send email! How about that!

When I signed up for this forum, the authorization ended up in the 'spam' folder. Pretty ironic, isn't it.

So you do filter for spam and do have to review your spam for legitimate email. Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if for you if the *sender* had to correct the problem? How many spam do you get? Since spammers often use open proxies, a certain percentage would just disappear because you can't return them to the sender in that case. However, how many senders would have to go through the trouble that you have this weekend? Suppose all those senders objected to the source of the spam instead of ranting about spamcop? Wouldn't that be more to the point of stopping spam from entering your mailbox than deleting it after it arrives?

The internet is run on netiquette. Miss Manners says that the way to deal with rude people (in this case the rudeness is tolerating the sending of spam from the same server you use) is to use the 'cut direct.' Blocking is the internet equivalent.

I don't want to deal with spam. I don't send spam and I don't want to have it in my inbox. To use blocking at the server level is a little like having a peephole that shows you the person at the door is accompanied by several thugs and no, I am not going to open the door until you show up unaccompanied.

Or another way to look at it are the precautions that people take to lock cars or that merchants take to be sure you are not a criminal. I have lived in places where not only did we leave the doors unlocked, but we left our car keys in our car. It galls me every time I have to show ID in order to cash a check. Or someone's car alarm goes berserk and wakes me up. We have a lot of inconveniences and have to prove that we are 'legitimate' in many areas of our lives because of the rudeness or criminal activity of others. Email is no different.

Miss Betsy

[tooangry]

I never said to find another ISP. I said find another mail provider. Your connection to the internet need not have anything to do with who handles your email. I use the spamcop email service, gmail, and yahoo, none of which are my ISP.

I tried a while ago to get any suggestions from the people here about a reliable mail service that was unlikely to get listed by SpamCop. I received no help.

Your saying that you use Gmail and Yahoo - both of which are regularly listed as we know - and SpamCop's own service. If that is the best that you, as a regular and experienced poster here, can do? If so, can I basically assume that the only way to be sure of not being listed by SpamCop is to use the SpamCop email service? There is something a bit unpleasant about that idea.

[Miss Betsy]

I don't know very much about different email services. I have never seen anyone complain about excite being blocked or sneakemail. Hotmail is generally ok.

My ISP has been on the spamcop blocklist a couple of times, but they immediately fix the problem and it is no more annoying than interrupted service because a semi hit the pole. Even less. Mistakes do happen.

Miss Betsy

[StevenUnderwood]

I tried a while ago to get any suggestions from the people here about a reliable mail service that was unlikely to get listed by SpamCop. I received no help.

Your saying that you use Gmail and Yahoo - both of which are regularly listed as we know - and SpamCop's own service. If that is the best that you, as a regular and experienced poster here, can do? If so, can I basically assume that the only way to be sure of not being listed by SpamCop is to use the SpamCop email service? There is something a bit unpleasant about that idea.

No, the only way to be sure you are never listed is to run your own server on your own IP address so you are not reliant on everyone else using the same server. That is not reasonable for most however. Having multiple ways of communicating is the next best way so that if one is blocked, you can get around that block. Sort of like having alternative routes to work in the morning.

[Wazoo]

I tried a while ago to get any suggestions from the people here about a reliable mail service that was unlikely to get listed by SpamCop. I received no help.

Someone says today .. use xxx.yyy .... tomorrow it gets hacked ... yet your anger then would be directed at ...????

Your saying that you use Gmail and Yahoo - both of which are regularly listed as we know - and SpamCop's own service. If that is the best that you, as a regular and experienced poster here, can do? If so, can I basically assume that the only way to be sure of not being listed by SpamCop is to use the SpamCop email service? There is something a bit unpleasant about that idea.

??? I don't have a SpamCop.net e-mail acount. I have accounts with my ISP, I have Yahoo accounts, I have HotMail accounts, I have GMail accounts, I have Sneakemail accounts, I have HyperSend accounts, I have accounts associated with web-sites I support (excluding this one, strange as that may sound <g>) ... on and on ..... Not sure how the concept that "e-mail is not a guaranteed thing" seems to slip by so many folks .... sure, one can "expect" the e-mail to arrive in the recipient's InBox, but .... as an "absolute" rule, sorry, not the way the "Net" works. Power outage here, back-hoe there, fire in a tunnel somewhere else, lightning strike here, hacker over there, hard-drive failure somewhere else, wrong or forgotten flag in a command-line string typed in somewhere, drink driver knocks over a power-line pole that also held up "my" cable connection 'wire' .... "stuff" happens all the time ...

[tooangry]

I have accounts with my ISP, I have Yahoo accounts, I have HotMail accounts, I have GMail accounts, I have Sneakemail accounts, I have HyperSend accounts, I have accounts associated with web-sites I support

So you have half a dozen or more email accounts. How much wasted time and trouble is that?

Personally I would rather push delete a few times to get rid of spam than have to manage that number of accounts. I realise that I'm in a minority here, of course.

Given that basically no-one here has come up with a suggestion for a reliable email service, I have to wonder about the frequent advice given to posters here complaining about their emails being blocked to change their ISPs to ones less friendly to spam. It will make no difference - they will still get blocked.

[Wazoo]

So you have half a dozen or more email accounts. How much wasted time and trouble is that?

???? Don't understand the question. Some setup as being POP'd, some setup to Forward, all hit my InBox, rules in place to sort incoming to their specific folders, all looks like new e-mail from here .... anything still sitting in my InBox folder is likely spam ...

Reasons for the "multiple" are numerous ... one address for that first contact with an unknow, an account for friends/family, account for business, accounts for the web-sites involved, etc. again, no "management" involved, other than selecting the folder with the "new mail" indicator showing ....

Given that basically no-one here has come up with a suggestion for a reliable email service, I have to wonder about the frequent advice given to posters here complaining about their emails being blocked to change their ISPs to ones less friendly to spam. It will make no difference - they will still get blocked.

Try If my IP is listed, does it mean I am a spammer or my ISP hosts spammers? for places to research on a different e-mail host ....

And as noted in yet another long discussion, the original IP address involved has aged off the SpamCopDNSBL, probably shortly soon after the last time I referenced the status ...

http://www.spamcop.net/w3m?action=checkblo...=209.181.18.177

209.181.18.177 not listed in bl.spamcop.net

http://www.senderbase.org/?searchBy=ipaddr...=209.181.18.177

Volume Statistics for this IP

Magnitude Vol Change vs. Average

Last day ......... 2.0 .. -100%

Last 30 days ... 2.7 .... -72%

Average ......... 3.2

Looks like someone showed up and solved the problem (or spammer moved on ..???)

recall that one of the previous times I posted this data, it looked like;

Magnitude Vol Change vs. Average

Last day ........ 4.4 .. 1393%

Quite a difference ..... but the point is, the SpamCopDNSBL worked as designed ... spew was detected in sufficient quantities to get the IP address listed .. spew got handled .. IP address was de-listed ...

However, it is still showing as listed at cbl.abuseat.org http://cbl.abuseat.org/lookup.cgi?ip=209.181.18.177

[studog]

A better metaphor would be driving to work on the freeway.

An exact analogy is the credit bureau.

A credit bureau takes info from people who have lent you money, and provides that info to people thinking about lending you money. The people thinking about lending you money then make their own decision about whether or not to lend you money.

Spamcop works *EXACTLY* the same way.

Spamcop takes info from people who have received spam, and provides that info to people thinking about receiving email. The people thinking about receiving email can then make their own decision about whether or not to receive email.

The only minor thing is that, unlike credit, many people can share an email server, so you might find your email blocked because you are a "neighbour" of a spammer. Unfortunate, but as mentioned above there is no other way this can work.

Also, Spamcop recommends that their list be used to tag email as spam, instead of blocking the email outright. However, the manner in which the Spamcop blacklist is used is obviously up to the ISPs.

...Stu

[Wazoo]

A couple of days later and things still seem to be under control ....

http://www.senderbase.org/?searchBy=ipaddr...=209.181.18.177

Volume Statistics for this IP

Magnitude Vol Change vs. Average

Last day ........ 1.7 .. -100%

Last 30 days .. 2.7 ... -72%

Average ........ 3.3

Wonder if the ISP ever admitted as to what the issue actually turned out to be?

[mrsbwayne]

My mail has been working, the ISP has no idea what happened that I know of. I guess the guy that is supposed to be watching it was gone that particular weekend and something happened. The secretary suggetsted I had a virus that was causing the problem. Oy vey. No one ever called me back. I think a couple cowboys found a server and plugged it in. I pay $75 a month for that, believe it or not.

My question is: I am using directair.com for my ISP. I don't have any stmp mail things with them, all my mail accounts go with various websites that are hosted at ixwebhosting, domaindirect and storefront. The two affected accounts last week were the two ixwebhosting accounts. The email accounts are all mail.domainname.com Directair is just the ISP. I use outlook express if that means anything.

So I was told if I have a dedicated server I won't have this problem, even if I just connect with direct air. But it seems to me that I am just connecting with directair now, to my various mailboxes.

My goal is to keep this from happening again without spending $100 a month on a dedicated server. I'm confused on a couple of points.

thanks for suggestions, and sorry I got so feisty in my other thread, you know, it was kind of a rough day.

SW

[dbiel]

I am sorry, but I just do not see your question.

Could you restate it?

Exactly what went wrong?

My mail has been working, the ISP has no idea what happened that I know of.

Did it stop working? if so, what are the symptoms? What are the error messages?

What is it suppose to do that it is not doing?

Edit: My reply list above was base on your new topic which has now been merged into you previous topic by Forum management.

So to start over.

Take a look at your Outlook express settings. What is the name of the SMTP server that you use as the default account?

Have you set up multiple accounts?

What is the name of the SMTP server in use for each of these accounts?

My ISP is Charter but I never use their SMPT servers. I use Earthlink as my primary outgoing mail server.

They have taken a strong stand against spammer. They require that anyone using their SBTP server authenticate each time before using it. They attach the IP address that was used to connect to their SMTP server to the mail headers before sending it out. It makes it easy for them to track back where a specific message came from.

It appears to me (after reading this entire topic) that you still have no idea how email actually works. You had beter take some time and learn if you are going to rely on it for business.

You talk like someone who owns a car and complains that it stopped running but when the right questions got asked and answered it was found that they did not know that you had to add gas on a reqular basis or you would run out and the car would stop. Or that you had to check the oil and water levels, or that the oil needed to be changed on a regualar basis, and tire pressure checked. The same holds true for email. And if you do not understand the basics you will have problems down the line.

[Wazoo]

post #1: two e-mail addresses ... Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?209.181.18.177

Post #6: wants to talk about e-bay e-mail

Post #10: says "can't send any e-mail" .. tries to contact ISP, hosting companies, etc.

Post #14: says "e-mail stopped working"

Post #16: "So it's not the ISP then? It's the mail provider? Because the mail provider is not the ISP. I am not using the SMTP of directair to send mail for anything." ... yet, the only "blocked" message provided is connected to a directairnet server ...???

Post #18: "I just tried to send email to myself, I still get the spamcop message. Anything going out of those two email accounts is blocked. ..... I host with storefront (1 email account - sends mail) , with domain direct (2 email accounts - both sending) and with IXWebhosting (2 email accounts - both blocked). I do not send any mail through stmp.directair.com, never have. " ....?????> other accounts are not 'defined' and the only IP address thus far mentioned belongs to "directairnet.com" ...???

Post #20 - says "I talked to the email server host people. I can send mail if I do it directly through the H-SPHERE mail thingy with both accounts." ...??? Is this something to do with 'storefront' ... 'domain direct' ... 'IXWebhostong' ... 'directairnet' ... or someone else entirely?

Post #23: says "I still can't send email through outlook express"

Post #33: pointed out that the only IP address mentioned had aged off the SpamCopDNSBL

Post #35: a few days later, noted that it remained off the BL

Post #36: "new Topic/post" merged into the existing Topic/discussion as it is a continuation of the previous situation ....

http://www.senderbase.org/?searchBy=ipaddr...=209.181.18.177

Network Owner Direct Airnet LLC

Domain directairnet.com

Date of first message seen from this address 2003-07-02

CIDR range 209.181.18.176/28

# of domains controlled by this network owner 3

post #4: Volume Statistics for this IP

Magnitude Vol Change vs. Average

Last day ........ 4.4 .. 1393%

Last 30 days .. 2.6 .... -75%

Average ........ 3.2

Post #17:Volume Statistics for this IP

Magnitude Vol Change vs. Average

Last day ........ 4.5 .. 1694%

Last 30 days .. 2.7 .... -72%

Average ........ 3.3

Just now: Volume Statistics for this IP

Magnitude Vol Change vs. Average

Last day 1.5 -100%

Last 30 days 2.7 -70%

Average 3.3

My mail has been working,

As noted a few times in this discussion, the specific IP address aged off the SpamCopDNSBL (though is is still listed elsewhere)

the ISP has no idea what happened that I know of. I guess the guy that is supposed to be watching it was gone that particular weekend and something happened. The secretary suggetsted I had a virus that was causing the problem. Oy vey. No one ever called me back. I think a couple cowboys found a server and plugged it in. I pay $75 a month for that, believe it or not.

Although "the ISP" is not defined, only the 'directairnet' folks would (should) have a clue ... that "you" had a virus (that disappeared on its own) that was sufficient to generate those thousands of e-mails that got that server listed ..??? well, doesn't say a lot for your technical support ...

My question is: I am using directair.com for my ISP. I don't have any stmp mail things with them, all my mail accounts go with various websites that are hosted at ixwebhosting, domaindirect and storefront. The two affected accounts last week were the two ixwebhosting accounts. The email accounts are all mail.domainname.com Directair is just the ISP. I use outlook express if that means anything.

The only place that Outlook Express comes into play is that it is the e-mail client you're using. The actual question comes in as "how is it configured?" ... We have all read all those previous posts about all your e-mail accounts, and yet ... only one IP address was offered up, that tracked back to 'directairnet' .. and when that UP address was de-listed, your e-mail "started working" again. Given your confusion stated in Post #20, there is a suspicion that your outgoing e-mail isn't being handled as you keep trying to describe.

So I was told if I have a dedicated server I won't have this problem, even if I just connect with direct air. But it seems to me that I am just connecting with directair now, to my various mailboxes.

Read my last .... this may be in question ...

My goal is to keep this from happening again without spending $100 a month on a dedicated server. I'm confused on a couple of points.

thanks for suggestions, and sorry I got so feisty in my other thread, you know, it was kind of a rough day.

To "fully" resolve things, clear the air, straighten everything out, I'd want to talk about the configuration bits in your Outlook Express settings. That the only ISP that (thus far) seems to actually be involved is directairnet seems to be the 'real' issue. It may be that they fixed the hole, found the real culprit, such that this will never happen again .... or the spammer moved on, perhaps to retun after the dust clears, and it will happen again ....???

Posting this before this thing crashes again ... off to see if any of the other mentioned ISPs offer a FAQ on how to set up OE to 'actually' use their e-mail servers ....

[Wazoo]

http://www.ixwebhosting.com/index.php/home...age/info.dspFaq

Defines POP3, but makes no mention of SMTP .. however, offers mailing lists, autoresponders, web-mail, e-mail forwarding and re-direction .. does mention a "no spam" policy, mentions "OPT-IN" just before mentioning "free-for-all" pages .. geeze ...

http://www.ixwebhosting.com/index.php/home...info.dspManual8

Hmmm .. see the "H-Sphere" thing ....

However, the set-up seems to be instructions on using "your ISP" settings to use IXHosting's services in a "relay mode" ... aha! .. probably back to why e-mail couldn't be sent, based on the appearance that the directairnet server was on the SpamCopDNSBL and IXHosting uses the SpamCopDNSBL (in a blocking mode) .... but again, just trying to pull some facts and bits together ...???

Bottom line, from these intructions, you are "not" connected "directly" to the IXHosting e-mail servers .... and this "relay mode" is in fact using directairnet's e-mail server(s)

I actually gave up looking for 'storefront' and 'direct hosting' .. not a clue as to the 'real' identity of these ISPs ..???

[mrsbwayne]

Here's another problem. Somebody is using my '[at]mydomain.com' to send mail. I am not sending these message, there's nothing in my outbox or sent mail. But I am getting back bounced messages with an email saying something like maeheer2[at]mydomain.com with some weird subject sent an email to a no good email address. Of course I have no such mailbox by that name. And I don't even know why they are bouncing back to that mailbox, since it's not a catch-all, it should only be getting mail to me[at]mydomain.com

I get about three a day.

Sarina

www.storefront.net and domaindirect.com

I have accounts with them. domaindirect is email only, storefront I actually have a storefront hosting/email with them.

Sarina

[Wazoo]

Here's another problem. Somebody is using my '[at]mydomain.com' to send mail. I am not sending these message, there's nothing in my outbox or sent mail.

and for a viewpoint from the other side of the "misdirected bounces" / "forged From: & Reply-To: lines" .. please see yet another discussion that got so bad, I moved it to the Lounge as purely rant material .. Too much wasted time for a non-help query you are on the receiving end of ISP/Admins such as that .... And of course, there's the SpamCop FAQ yet again ... Why am I getting all these Bounces? ... you don't have to read the whole thing, just grab some titles that deal with the issue of the moment ...

But I am getting back bounced messages with an email saying something like maeheer2[at]mydomain.com with some weird subject sent an email to a no good email address. Of course I have no such mailbox by that name. And I don't even know why they are bouncing back to that mailbox, since it's not a catch-all, it should only be getting mail to me[at]mydomain.com

And again, the specifics are in the details .... "not a catch-all" also implies that the specific server also does the reject during the SMTP connection phase ... the description "mydomain.com" doesn't begin to point me/us/anyone to the right direction to look anything up. If it's the IXHosting site, I'd say that there is no rejection capability offered (from what I just read)

www.storefront.net and domaindirect.com

I have accounts with them. domaindirect is email only, storefront I actually have a storefront hosting/email with them.

Thanks, but .. I also see that other traffic has occurred within the Forum .. need to catch up ...

By the way, thanks for taking the time to follow-up on things.

[dbiel]

Here's another problem. Somebody is using my '[at]mydomain.com' to send mail.

Again you do not understand how email works. This is a common problem

Nobody is "using" your "[at]mydoman.com" address to send mail.

What they are doing is using your address as a forged address in the From and/or Reply to portions of the mail header used when sending out their spammy messages.

And the problem is that people who are receiving those messages are bounceing them back to the forged address indicated in the sent message instead of sending them back to the IP addresses were they actually came from.

[StevenUnderwood]

My question is: I am using directair.com for my ISP. I don't have any stmp mail things with them... Directair is just the ISP. I use outlook express if that means anything.

Please check your Outlook Express configuration. Mail Account Properties, Servers tab for the Outgoing Mail (SMTP) entry. Sometimes ISP's have installation scripts that change this to using their SMTP to "make it easy" on the customer. You could be collecting your mail from your various accounts but still sending out through DirectAir. You would then be subject to their listing on any outgoing email.

[Miss Betsy]

thanks for suggestions, and sorry I got so feisty in my other thread, you know, it was kind of a rough day.

I am glad that you have calmed down and understood that people were trying to help, not 'attack' you!

As dbiel's example said, one does have to know something about how email works just like one needs to know something about how a car works in order to use either. However, one doesn't have to become a mechanic in order to drive a car and one doesn't have to know exactly how email works in order to be able to maintain it and fix problems.

It is sometimes frustrating when the people who are knowledgable get nitpicky about terms, but 'using' your email address and 'forging' it may seem like it is the same thing, but unless you do understand the difference, any explanation is going to be confusing.

'Using' your email address to send mail means that someone is actually using your computer to send out email without your knowledge. That's what trojans set up and what it means by an 'infected computer.'

The misdirected bounces that you are getting are not coming from your computer. In the days before spam, the From part was usually the address that sent the email, but was set up so that it could be changed to another address so that you could send email from home, but get the answers at work (to change the From, you access the same tools in your email set up as which stmp you are using). A convenient feature until the spammers discovered that somebody else could get the bounces instead of them when they sent out spam to made up addresses hoping to get some hits and not caring how many didn't exist. So now almost all spam contains 'forged' addresses in the From. The misdirected bounces now are just as much of a problem as spam and ISPs who send emails (bounces) about undeliverable email are contributing to the problem.

Now someone may correct my explanation since I am technically non-fluent about email. There are other reasons for why spammers forge the From, for instance. But what you need to understand is that you can configure your email to use different Froms, different email providers and how that is done so that you know where the problem is if your email is blocked. It is kind of like knowing the symptoms of a dead battery vs ignition problems if your car won't start. If you do know these things, you know who to contact and what to tell them so that the problem gets fixed quickly. Yesterday, a teenager's car stopped. People spent lots of time trying to 'fix' it until a mechanic happened by. He determined very quickly that the car was out of gas. If the teenager paid attention to the gas gauge, it might not have been a problem in the first place. But a more experienced driver might have recognized the sound of a car running out of gas and time wouldn't have been wasted looking for other problems. The teenager could have called for someone to bring some gas instead of just calling for help.

Hope this helps.

Miss Betsy

[dbiel]

Very well said/written Miss Betsy!

[Wazoo]

Now someone may correct my explanation since I am technically non-fluent about email.

Minor detail ... You didn't include the Reply-To: line as the other possible forgery point.

If the teenager paid attention to the gas gauge, it might not have been a problem in the first place.

Gas guage doesn't tell all <g> My 80 Didge van reads 1/4 tank low, when displaying Empty, there's another 100 miles left in the tank ... My 77 Ford van reads 1/4/ tank high. so you'd better be thinking of filling that tank when it's at 1/2 ... My 74 Ford pickup has been sitting at 1/2 tank since the day I saw it, something like 12 years ago (?) .. and the bikes don't have guages at all <g>

But a more experienced driver might have recognized the sound of a car running out of gas

There usually isn't any "sound" associated with no gas, beyond the sudden silence of no motor running (going ewith the "intown, low speed, flat road picture painted) ... though the lack of any large bangs, backfires, motor trying to kill or eat itself, does normally rule out a couple of major catastrophies.

And yet, even the experts trike out sometimes ... Nascar race yesterday ... thousands of dollars spent on staff, engineering rools, fabrication machinery, parts tricked out to pass inspection yet offer something 'extra', years of experience involved in the folks that earned their wings to get to where they are and make the big bucks .... yet .... a simple car battery .. one post marked with a bug "+" mark, the other marked with a big "-" mark ... two big wires involved, generically one red wire that would go to the "+" post, a black wire going to the "-" post ... a quick-connect piece at the other end of those wires, made to only go into the mating recepticle in only one way ... car's charging system failed, a battery replacement needed .. came into the pits, battery is hiding in a compartment just forward of the front tire on the driver's side .. car jacked up, tire removed, access panel cover removed, old battery pulled out, disconnected ... new battery shoved into the hole, guy is having a hard time getting the connection made .. struggles a bit more, gets the connctors to mate, steps back out of the way for someone to replace the access cover ... however, someone finally notices the sudden appearance of smoke coming out of the fenderwells, from the hood, climbing the windshield ... turns out that the entire wiring harness is now melted ... conjectured, but not answered, either the two wires actually connected to the battery were reversed (and then duct-taped over) or the guy actually managed to do the impossible and force the connector into the recepticle backwards ....

Bottom line ... two (industry/world standard) color coded wiires, two (industry/world standard) marked connecting battery posts, and a physically configured connector made to only fit in one position ... yet, a mistake was made ...

[Miss Betsy]

Minor detail ... You didn't include the Reply-To: line as the other possible forgery point.

I left it out on purpose because we haven't even started discussing headers yet.

Bottom line ... two (industry/world standard) color coded wiires, two (industry/world standard) marked connecting battery posts, and a physically configured connector made to only fit in one position ... yet, a mistake was made ...

That's another point about email and being blocked. Sometimes mistakes are made. Sometimes even 'experts' make mistakes.

Miss Betsy

[Farelf]

Bottom line ... two (industry/world standard) color coded wiires, two (industry/world standard) marked connecting battery posts, and a physically configured connector made to only fit in one position ... yet, a mistake was made ...

At the risk of losing the whole point of the metaphor, the mistake was made long before that. What sort of idiocy is it to put up with circuits that short out on reverse polarity? If I had my way, every battery would connect to a whopping great diode bridge and all services would be taken from the bridge poles. Surely it is worth giving up 0.7V for the assurance of being (in this one regard) absolutely and forever "bulletproof"?

[Telarin]

At the risk of losing the whole point of the metaphor, the mistake was made long before that. What sort of idiocy is it to put up with circuits that short out on reverse polarity? If I had my way, every battery would connect to a whopping great diode bridge and all services would be taken from the bridge poles. Surely it is worth giving up 0.7V for the assurance of being (in this one regard) absolutely and forever "bulletproof"?

One of my favorite quotes:

"Make something idiot proof, and the world will make a better idiot"

It has never been proved wrong before

[Jank1887]

my favorite analogy:

FedEx or UPS refuses to pick up mail from your business because it's in such a bad neighborhood, they're concerned about the driver's safety.

You're business chose the bad neighborhood. Or, the neighborhood got bad around your business. As a business owner, you assume risks of ownership. You based your business on email communication, and thus (direct or implied) accepted the delivery risk that comes with email. You compounded this by not understanding how email really works, and what the full extent of the risks are.

Now, you as a business owner are paying for a "good neighborhood". If you are not being provided with "a good neighborhood" or "a sufficient neighborhood cleanup service" then you need to examine whether or not your provider is holding up their end of the business arrangement you have with them. Examine your terms of service and see what's in there (if anything) about reliability of the service or downtime.

Worst case, move your business to a new location, or arrange a different delivery service.

"Your poor business model is not my problem." I have the right to protect my server from your server's spam, even if that means missing your legit messages. It's my choice. If I choose to use SpamCop to facilitate that, it's still my choice. SpamCop is doing it's job properly by helping me temporarily block email from your server. Be calm and proactive.