kews Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Hi, First, I don't know much about SpamCop, but recent blacklistes have made me wonder: If I sign up for SpamCop reporting adress, send a mail to a unknown recipient in a domain and the mail bounces back to the SpamCop adress, will the unknown recipients IP adresse get blacklisted because it bounced a mail to the spamtrap? If yes, would I, hypothetically, be able to cause a lot of blacklist entries for a lot of companies to which I've sent mails which I knew would be bounced? (could also be Out Of Office replies)... regards, kews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lking Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 will the unknown recipients IP adresse get blacklisted because it bounced a mail to the spamtrap? By definition no. spamtraps are secret addresses that do not sent email. If you know it and use it, it is not a spamtrap on two counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kews Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 By definition no. spamtraps are secret addresses that do not sent email. If you know it and use it, it is not a spamtrap on two counts. If the spamtrap is secret, how do find out how our IP got blacklisted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek T Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 If the spamtrap is secret, how do find out how our IP got blacklisted? If the listing is for Spamtrap hits only, you don't. Spammers spoil it for everyone. BTW turn off all post-facto bounces such as OOO and full mailbox, no such user etc. If you must 'bounce' do it at the SMTP transaction with a 5**. A polite email to deputies[at]spamcop.net may get you an indication of the nature of what hit the traps but no details. They are very few and busy people so be patient! Care to offer an IP for us to check? or is this all hypothetical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbiel Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 If I sign up for SpamCop reporting adress, send a mail to a unknown recipient in a domain and the mail bounces back to the SpamCop adress, will the unknown recipients IP adresse get blacklisted because it bounced a mail to the spamtrap? If yes, would I, hypothetically, be able to cause a lot of blacklist entries for a lot of companies to which I've sent mails which I knew would be bounced? (could also be Out Of Office replies)...The answer is Yes, but. You would have to forge a spamcop spamtrap address as your reply to address. You would be in violation of the SpamCop rules and your account would be terminated because you would now be the spammer and SpamCop does not tollerate spammers using their system. And those that you casued to be listed could find relief from SpamCop because you (a SpamCop customer) was the real cause of their being listed. You could also find yourself in some legal hot water if you kept pushing the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kews Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 The answer is Yes, but. You would have to forge a spamcop spamtrap address as your reply to address. You would be in violation of the SpamCop rules and your account would be terminated because you would now be the spammer and SpamCop does not tollerate spammers using their system. And those that you casued to be listed could find relief from SpamCop because you (a SpamCop customer) was the real cause of their being listed. You could also find yourself in some legal hot water if you kept pushing the issue. ok, that's the real problem here, because, once listed within SpamCop, it's a pain to get delisted. There's no contacts to write to, only one delisting try. After that, one'll have to wait 24 hours. As a relay host for at lot of customers, we cannot be provided with information of what blacklisted us. That is annyoing and surfing the forums, I can see that I'm not the only one who has problems. Actually, the biggest problem is some (read: many) recipients mailservers reject mails only on behalf on a check on SpamCop. SpamCop is not the only blacklist in the world and recipients should really be checking a quantity of blacklistes and cummulate the answers to give a either positive or negative reply. At last, why do all recipients answer with a 5** reply? That's bogus too in my oppinion. This should be a soft error instead. regards, kews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbiel Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 ok, that's the real problem here, because, once listed within SpamCop, it's a pain to get delisted.Actually almost every other list is much harder to get off of than SpamCop's There's no contacts to write toYou sure have not looked very hard. The contact information is found countless places in these forum. If you are reading this post, just go to the bottom of it at look at my signature, it contains several methods for contacting SpamCop staff. It is the same signature that appear in the post you quoted, did you fail to see it? Over 1,600 of my posts contain that same signature. It is found in the FAQ, it is found in the announcements, it is found of the SpamCop.net web site.only one delisting try. After that, one'll have to wait 24 hours.Actually it is a max of 24 hours after the last reported spam, and it takes several messages to get listed and the more email traffic from an IP address, the more reports of spam are required to become listed. As a relay host for at lot of customers, we cannot be provided with information of what blacklisted us. Well that is not actually true either. Information on spamtraps are hard to come by but if you are willing to work with the staff they may release some information. Information form reports is easy to come by. Sign up for a free ISP account and you can check various IP addresses for report information. Also copies of all reports are sent via email to the registered abuse address for the IP address in question.That is annyoing and surfing the forums, I can see that I'm not the only one who has problems. Actually, the biggest problem is some (read: many) recipients mailservers reject mails only on behalf on a check on SpamCop. SpamCop is not the only blacklist in the world and recipients should really be checking a quantity of blacklistes and cummulate the answers to give a either positive or negative reply.That is the recipients right and choice. SpamCop does not sell the list, it is free and people like it, they like how it works and if they don't they can simply stop using it. They are sick and tired of all the spam and bogus bounces and have found the SpamCop list an effective means of dealing with it. SpamCop does NOT recommend using it for blocking but strongly suggests that it be used for filtering only. But SpamCop does not control how the list is used. Each user of the list make his/her own decision. (User generally means ISP, but individually also can make use of it) If the list was that bad, nobody would use it. At last, why do all recipients answer with a 5** reply? That's bogus too in my oppinion. This should be a soft error instead. It is one of the few way of bouncing the message back to the source it came from instead of the forged reply to address. How would you like to receive 10,000 bounces a day because some jerk spammer decided to use your address as the reply to address; and yes it does happen People find that they are missing messages because their mail boxes are full of bogus bounces. Which seems to be what you are more than willing to permit; and as long as you continue to allow it, you will continue to find your IP addresses popping on and off of the SpamCopBL based on the amount of reported spam/bounce traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kews Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 Hi again, Can you give me a link to where I can sign up for a free ISP account, I can't find it on the SpamCop.net site. Can you supply me link to where I can see email adresses for SpamCop support, because I can't find that either. I sent mails via the "Dispute listing" function, but I didn't get any replies from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbiel Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Can you give me a link to where I can sign up for a free ISP account, I can't find it on the SpamCop.net site. How can I get SpamCop reports about my network? It contains a link to creating an ISP account Can you supply me link to where I can see email adresses for SpamCop support, because I can't find that either.Are you unable to read my signature? I will copy into this text This forum is a user support forum. The Moderators and Forum Admin are volunteers (not paid) and have no special direct relationship with SpamCop.net. How can I contact a SpamCop representative? is a link to official SpamCop help if additional assistance is required. Alternate email address for official SpamCop support: Don D'Minion/Argyle - SpamCop Administrative affairs [at] service[at]admin.spamcop.net Thank you for your participation in our peer to peer, user based forums. Not finding the Help you need?Provides lots of options.The user to user forum often provides faster and more complete answers. However, if you want to talk to a SpamCop employee about Reporting and Blocklist issues, please use this link to the web submission forms at SpamCop Web submission form which is designed to ask specific questions and extract information that leads to resolution on first contact, rather than having to write back and forth a few times. Please answer all questions, provide all data ... this address hits the InBox of three people, last known to be trying to handle 600-1000 e-mails and web-form submittals a day. Also see Announcement: How To Get Official SpamCop.Net Customer Support which contains several email address.I sent mails via the "Dispute listing" function, but I didn't get any replies from that. If your email looked anything like your first post here, I am not surprised. If you do not provide any information you will probably not get any reply. Make sure you use an administrative reply to address related to the IP address you are asking about. Do not use your personal address. You could be some jerk spammer. Clearly explain your problem and what you have done so far to try to fix it. Include a link to this topic. Remember that they process 100s of emails per day and can easily get back logged. Use a title the clearly defines what you need in a short sentence and I am sure that they will get back to you. But remember that the web form usually works best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek T Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Hi again, I sent mails via the "Dispute listing" function, but I didn't get any replies from that. Meritless disputes are routinely ignored: it tells you that right next to the button. Meritless = disputing a legitimate listing. Care to offer up an IP so we can help you clean up your act and avoid being listed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turetzsr Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Information on spamtraps are hard to come by but if you are willing to work with the staff they may release some information. Information form reports is easy to come by. Sign up for a free ISP account and you can check various IP addresses for report information. Also copies of all reports are sent via email to the registered abuse address for the IP address in question....Just to make crystal clear (not that dbiel didn't, just being very picky): copies of all reports from SpamCop users, not for spam sent to SpamTraps are sent via email to the registered abuse address for the IP address in question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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