Shamed Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Hi Im so sorry, I built a website that took me like 6 months of daily work all alone, and when i finally got it up and running i was dissapointed that nobody would come, even my friends stopped after a while, i found this website that claimed to have a list of 80 million emails for $40 bucks, so i thought its worth a try and i got it and set up a mailing system on my website and just got an email 2 days later from my isp telling me my website has been terminated I'm so sorry, I was naive and i thought if there's any complaints i'll stop and i thought that i'll receive at least 1 warning and if i do i'll stop sending emails immediatly ... I know this is a very lame excuse, I meant no harm to anybody and I really hope there's a way to get my site back alive, I can't stand the idea that 6 months work has been terminated and that I'm shamed like this .. My website isn't about viagra or cialis or cheap imitations, its about immigration and life in Australia I just worked so hard at it, I really am sorry for using that list please help me get my website back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petzl Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 My website isn't about viagra or cialis or cheap imitations, its about immigration and life in Australia I just worked so hard at it, I really am sorry for using that list please help me get my website back I would be more concerned about potentail Australian legal action? Severe penalties apply and (IMO) sorry won't wash for an excuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamed Posted April 10, 2008 Author Share Posted April 10, 2008 I would be more concerned about potentail Australian legal action? Severe penalties apply and (IMO) sorry won't wash for an excuse Petzel im really frightened now, please what is going to happen now? im so sorry what can i do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farelf Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 im really frightened now, please what is going to happen now? im so sorry what can i do? Just to but in - read the Act per the links. AFAICT it applies to unsolicited commercial email sent from Australia to Australian residents/citizens. Which doesn't sound like "you". Unless you were flogging an immigration service (for commission or for fee) or somesuch? If you were doing that I'm sure the bureacrats would have additional matters to discuss with you. Maybe a reader has similar experience to share but your (erstwhile) provider is the only person/entity able to actually help. They would want that "mailing system" on your website decommissioned for a start, if they're prepared to do anything at all (the usual approach seems to be a permanent ban but that is just what one hears about, not necessarily what is representative). You were sending spam from your own "server" using their network/one of their IP addresses? That would be contrary to their TOS/AUP/CRA? Was it (the address) listed on various block lists and did it lose reputation points as a consequence? You probably need to know if you caused actual damage before you can approach them properly, also you need to acknowledge what 'rules' you broke if they're to even give you the time of day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamaraju Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I found this website that claimed to have a list of 80 million emails for $40 bucks What exactly is the website you are referring to? I would like to report to the registrar of that website and take it down first. Selling email addresses of other people without their consent violates the terms and conditions of most registrars. raju Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamed Posted April 10, 2008 Author Share Posted April 10, 2008 What exactly is the website you are referring to? I would like to report to the registrar of that website and take it down first. Selling email addresses of other people without their consent violates the terms and conditions of most registrars. Hi Raju the website is h.ttp://fxstyle.net/ they advertise the list now as 238 million emails ... Please, do you have any comments / can you help with my situation at all? Just to but in - read the Act per the links. AFAICT it applies to unsolicited commercial email sent from Australia to Australian residents/citizens. Which doesn't sound like "you". Unless you were flogging an immigration service (for commission or for fee) or somesuch? If you were doing that I'm sure the bureacrats would have additional matters to discuss with you. Maybe a reader has similar experience to share but your (erstwhile) provider is the only person/entity able to actually help. They would want that "mailing system" on your website decommissioned for a start, if they're prepared to do anything at all (the usual approach seems to be a permanent ban but that is just what one hears about, not necessarily what is representative). You were sending spam from your own "server" using their network/one of their IP addresses? That would be contrary to their TOS/AUP/CRA? Was it (the address) listed on various block lists and did it lose reputation points as a consequence? You probably need to know if you caused actual damage before you can approach them properly, also you need to acknowledge what 'rules' you broke if they're to even give you the time of day. Thank you Farelf, to answer your questions: 1. I did not send to any Australian citizens as far as i know, as you pointed out I aim to avoid them and email my message to users in other nations, particularly those who have large expats in Australia such as Croatians, Lebanese, Turks etc, I steered away from Australians and Americans .. however I can't 100% be sure that not a single Australian citizen received this email. 2. The mailing list has been decommisioned, the entire website is currently unavailable, I won't even think of sending ordinary emails from it again .. if i ever get it online again 3. I guess this means the website is permanently banned? 4. Since I'm new to all this I don't think my IP is listed on other lists (is there any way / website to check for sure?) 5. MY ISP told me that i need to email their admin to resolve this, so they're giving me a bit of hope .. I just want to know whats going to happen now to: 1. Me (am i in legal trouble?) 2. Is my website now permanently banned? Thank you so much for your help and time on this [Farelf edit - url link severed above] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamed Posted April 10, 2008 Author Share Posted April 10, 2008 Is there anyone in SpamCop who can help me with this? Im willing to do anything and give any guarantees they might request to not send any more emails from my website, but my ISP just sent me an email that they won't recreate the website, Im hoping that SpamCop can convince them thats ok? they can monitor me for as long as they like, please I dont want to lose everything because of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turetzsr Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 <snip> Is there anyone in SpamCop who can help me with this? <snip>Im hoping that SpamCop can convince them thats ok? <snip> ...It's unlikely, in my humble opinion, that anyone at SpamCop can or would do this. But I suppose you could ask (note that you are communicating here with SpamCop users, not staff). See elsewhere in the SpamCop Forum and/or SpamCop FAQ for guidance as to how to contact SpamCop staff about this. But, ultimately, this is between you and your ISP. ...Oh, and if you ever get online again somehow, you may want to make backups of your web site to offline storage (such as your own personal hard drive) so that if your provider loses your work, you can restore it fairly easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamed Posted April 10, 2008 Author Share Posted April 10, 2008 ...It's unlikely, in my humble opinion, that anyone at SpamCop can or would do this. But I suppose you could ask (note that you are communicating here with SpamCop users, not staff). See elsewhere in the SpamCop Forum and/or SpamCop FAQ for guidance as to how to contact SpamCop staff about this. But, ultimately, this is between you and your ISP. ...Oh, and if you ever get online again somehow, you may want to make backups of your web site to offline storage (such as your own personal hard drive) so that if your provider loses your work, you can restore it fairly easily. Hi Steve Many thanks for that, I'm trying to figure out how to contact SpamCop officers for this but I can't figure out how .. I'll keep trying to find an email or mailform .. I have a copy of the website, in the termination email i got a link to a tar.gz file so im assuming that's it ... But am i correct to understand that if i move the website "with the same domain name" to another host and never to send any emails again, is this possible and will this keep me out of trouble? Also any thoughts on the legal problem ive gotten myself into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamed Posted April 10, 2008 Author Share Posted April 10, 2008 I can't find anyway of contacting the deputies directly regarding this, I guess i'll just have to wait and hope that they might stumble in this post ... if you know anyone who can help me please let me know .. thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farelf Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I think the SC deputies would be a rather bemused/puzzled party in all of this - though you seem to/may think SC reports were involved in having your mail run shut down (hence your choice of forum to post to). Anyway the contact detail is no secret, using the form at the foot of http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/401.html is one way. You should provide the IP address you believe was blocked by SC - if you wish to talk to the deputies and/or continue this discussion in this particular forum. That actually has nothing directly to do with your website being shut down (purely in the SC context) though they *do* send seperate reports concerning "spamvertized" web sites (which could get you shut down for AUP/TOS breach by itself). SC is *mostly* about listing the IP addresses of servers sending out spam and - subject to reporter observation as distinct from spamtrap hits - giving the admins of the offending netspace a "heads up" that it is happening (with the inference that their IP address may soon be added to or perhaps has already been added to the SCbl accordingly). Anyway it might have had a lot to do with your provider's actions, certainly I would assume so. Your provider is the only person who can "release" your website content so you should persevere with your contact with their admin. That is the person you need to convince and SC can have little part in that (monitoring of spamtraps and taking reporter submissions carries on regardless). Unless your provider is/was your domain registrar or has made a complaint to the registrar your domain may not be "banned" (to the entire internet) at all. But he has your content. There are others "here" who know far more about these aspects. You might be able to find out all sorts of things about your domain from resources like http://www.robtex.com/ by working through the various links there (including blocklists on associated IP address(es), so far as the mailing is concerned) and the status of the domain name with the registrar (via the whois lookup which is just one of the resources there). From the little detail you have given it is not really possible to guess about your jeapardy under the Australian spam Act, though I did so, in an earlier post. You would be in a better position than anyone "here" to assess the risk, if you study the legislation and consider the actual objectives of that instrument. If you excluded US addresses in the hope you would not hit on US citizens or businesses that may not have worked (the internet is international) but if it takes a decade to bring the most notorious US-based spammers to book I would think you are in no immediate risk of extradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I can't find anyway of contacting the deputies directly regarding this, I guess i'll just have to wait and hope that they might stumble in this post ... if you know anyone who can help me please let me know .. You seem to be somewhat frustrated. However, I find myself even more frustrated. A small sampling of the data you seek from using the links provided at the top of this very page ... SpamCop FAQ How can I contact a SpamCop representative? Latest & Current Announcements Not finding the Help you need? SpamCop Wiki Where to get Help Using the Search function, looking for the word "Deputies" would have returned a ton-load of results, the majority of them being the e-mail address posted countless times before in existing Topics, Posts, Discussions. However, I second Farelf's conjecturing .... the primary issue is between you and the web-hosting ISP. From your own offered storyline, it was the unsolicited e-mail you sent out that caused the ISP to take action .... From your words, your web-site is not "banned" ... it would appear to actually fallen under the normal mode of such things in that the DNS records have been 'adjusted' such that the web-site's URL no longer resolves to an IP Address. I started a Wiki page that attempts to explain some of this (admitting that it is far from finished) ... How the Internet Works Re-reading this whole Discussion, I'm having a small issue in trying to see how the SpamCopDNSBL is involved with your web-site issue at all .. other than the possibility that your host took action in order to prevent their ending up with one of their IP Addresses getting listed ... but you actually don't say anything about that. At present, I'm of the belief that this Topic should actually be moved to the Lounge area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 As other posters have said, you need to be talking to your host provider about this problem. sorry is not going to help you just as offline if you get in a car without knowing the rules of the road and snarl traffic because you never heard of one way streets People who use the internet need to know the concepts about how computers work together on the internet and the rules of the road on the internet. The technicians who understand the concepts are not very good at explaining how it works. What they have done is make it 'easy' for the technically ignorant person to use the internet. Unfortunately, as you have discovered, if the technically ignorant person makes a mistake, they just take away the 'toy' - by not allowing them to use the internet. So, your third step is to learn some of the rudiments - take a class, hire a consultant, or spend 6 months researching how the internet really works. Many technically minded people are very generous with sharing knowledge. However, as Wazoo points out in the wiki, there are others who will take advantage of ignorance. You know that also, from experience now, from the website who sold you the mailing list. If you had read the FAQ here about 'best practices for mailing lists' and followed the links, you would have known better. So, talk to your host provider. See how much they are willing to help you. Learn more about what you are doing. If you are willing to learn, there are always people in forums who are willing to help you understand (just pick the user group that deals with the subject you are trying to learn about - for instance, this forum is about filtering spam through the use of blocklists, specifically the spamcop blocklist. The posters here are interested in stopping spam and eliminating spamvertized websites -like yours. Some might tell you generally about how to advertise a website, but for specific answers on how to do it, they might point you to a website owner user group. Others might just ignore you because they are busy running a mail server or whatever they do and are just glad that your host stopped you from sending spam. They would be very helpful to you, however, in learning how to use blocklists or what to do if you found yourself on a blocklist and didn't know why or how to fight spam.) Another point that I don't think anyone has mentioned. spam is unsolicited email. it is about conSent, not conTent. Even if your website offered the answer to all the world's problems, unless the recipient asked for an email about it, an email containing the link to the answer to all the world's problems would still be spam because it is unsolicited. Miss Betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpamCopAdmin Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I can't find anyway of contacting the deputies directly My address is: service[at]admin.spamcop.net I don't know why no one here would give it to you. Someone should have. Most of the folks who participate here know it. Please accept my apologies for that! The SpamCop staff will not help you get your web site back. It is none of our business. You're on your own with that problem. All I can suggest is that you get a new service provider and put your web site up on their network. - Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamed Posted April 10, 2008 Author Share Posted April 10, 2008 Hi guys thank you so much all for your support I apologize for my naivity again, I've learnt some valuable lessons Im sorry if my questions or requests seemed stupid, i simply didnt know how all this works and i thout SpamCop was some kind of authority over ISP's .. I've done as you suggested, and as most of you predicted my previous host refused any attempts to restore the website, but they've offered me a backup and i've contacted another host and hopefully it will be up and running again soon -spam free this time-! My only concern right now - and by far the biggest - is legal action, I'm simply petrified of the idea of going to jail or even having to pay a hefty fine for this ... i can't afford either ... so far this website has cost me alot and i havent gained much through it considering that i don't sell anything like other spammers .. I just hope this all goes away and i don't get a call from the federal police or a similar organisation ... Again i thank you all for your help, i truly appreciate it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 You are unlikely to receive a visit from the police. For one thing, there has to be someone to report you. Most people either use a filter which deletes spam or they delete themselves. Another thing is that many law enforcement departments that monitor spam will not prosecute unless there is a substantial amount of money lost by the complaintant. That is one of the frustrations of those who want law enforcement to pay attention to people who are obviously bent on criminally separating a victim from his money. Good Luck with your enterprise! Miss Betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farelf Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 ...I've done as you suggested, and as most of you predicted my previous host refused any attempts to restore the website, but they've offered me a backup and i've contacted another host and hopefully it will be up and running again soon -spam free this time-!...Good work. But your former host has evidently concluded you are a liability (as they are entitled to so do), that would be partly on previous behaviour and partly playing the odds that you don't know enough to stay out of trouble. The last bit you can, of course, address to ensure you don't run out of willing and reputable hosts (and Miss Betsy took pains to point you in the right direction on learning the trade in one of her earlier posts). There's a lot to learn and it is best not to do it all when you're under pressure. Some folk here have been a bit reticent in their responses (or withheld them) partly because you offered little hard data - no IP addresses (most people don't know them anyway, but ...) no domain name and no sample of the "innocuous" spam. "We" tend to be a bit paranoid. That's something to bear in mind if you need to come back here with a problem. And you probably will if you don't inform yourself on all the matters necessary to secure and manage your "web presence". Well, it's worth the effort and good luck in your continuing pursuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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