Rob Lapensee Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 spamcop seems to be listed on rfc-ignorant.org which makes it impossible to e-mail to sites that utilize the rfc-ignorant.org list. How do I send an e-mail from spamcop to aci.on.ca? The following message to <xxxxxx[at]aci.on.ca> was undeliverable. The reason for the problem: 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-"5.1.8 reject sender 'xxxxxx[at]spamcop.net'.\0125.1.8 The domain 'spamcop.net' matches the DNS Black List entry:\0125.1.8 \0125.1.8 \011spamcop.net.postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org\011A\011127.0.0.3\0125.1.8 \0125.1.8 Please note the following additional important information:\0125.1.8 \0125.1.8 Not supporting postmaster[at]domain\0125.1.8 \0125.1.8 There is a serious error of some kind at your end which we cannot\0125.1.8 correct or compensate for at this end. Please forward this message\0125.1.8 in its entirety to your own LOCAL <postmaster> and ask them to\0125.1.8 correct the problem for you.\0125.1.8 \0125.1.8 Postmaster[at][216.154.195.49]: Please contact <postmaster[at]aci.on.ca>\0125.1.8 (via an unblocked server of course!) if you need assistance in\0125.1.8 resolving this issue. You must include your IP number, given\0125.1.8 above, in order to receive any help at all. Including this entire\0125.1.8 status reply is ideal." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 You use your own ISP's e-mail server. Although the listing in rfc-ignorant is based on valid rules and reasons, I'll let you set back and think for at least 10 seconds on just how long you figure the the postmaster account at SpamCop headquarters would actually be of any use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loafman Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 spamcop seems to be listed on rfc-ignorant.org which makes it impossible to e-mail to sites that utilize the rfc-ignorant.org list. How do I send an e-mail from spamcop to aci.on.ca? Ummm, you don't unless you can write to them from some other host and have them whitelist SC. I would imagine they don't get much mail since a lot of the major ISP's would also be listed for one reason or another. ...Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbiel Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 spamcop seems to be listed on rfc-ignorant.org which makes it impossible to e-mail to sites that utilize the rfc-ignorant.org list. How do I send an e-mail from spamcop to aci.on.ca? Since SpamCop does not provide the basic internet connection (at least not that I am aware of) you must be connecting to the internet by some other means than by SpamCop. And unless you are composing and sending your message directly from the WebMail interface you are not even using SpamCop for SMTP service. So you may want to simply change your email address (use a different one) (which could be forwarded to your SpamCop account if you wished) to get around this problem for this particular user while continuing to use your SpamCop address for all other mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lapensee Posted July 29, 2004 Author Share Posted July 29, 2004 >>unless you are composing and sending your message directly from the WebMail I am using WebMail directly >>you are not even using SpamCop for SMTP service I belive I am using SpamCop SMTP Also, I belive that SpamCop is on the rfc-ignorant.org blacklist. can you say ironic? Regards, Since SpamCop does not provide the basic internet connection (at least not that I am aware of) you must be connecting to the internet by some other means than by SpamCop. And unless you are composing and sending your message directly from the WebMail interface you are not even using SpamCop for SMTP service. So you may want to simply change your email address (use a different one) (which could be forwarded to your SpamCop account if you wished) to get around this problem for this particular user while continuing to use your SpamCop address for all other mail. 14174[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lapensee Posted July 29, 2004 Author Share Posted July 29, 2004 If the postmaster account is the only thing keeping SpamCop.net on the rfc-ignorant.org blacklist, then it would be usefull to have it, because then we could get spamcop.net of the black list and I could send my e-mail without eny errors... I belive the spamcop.net black list helps the Internet at large and e-mail servers should support it. does the rfc-ignorant.org black list help the Internet at large? If so, then we should support it. Regards, You use your own ISP's e-mail server. Although the listing in rfc-ignorant is based on valid rules and reasons, I'll let you set back and think for at least 10 seconds on just how long you figure the the postmaster account at SpamCop headquarters would actually be of any use. 14153[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidT Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Also, I belive that SpamCop is on the rfc-ignorant.org blacklist. can you say ironic? 14196[/snapback] True...but the "rfc-ignorant.org" system is a bit over the top, in that they're a little too strict in their applications of the "rules," IMO. The SpamCop domain is in there because of choices made by the SpamCop admins to put autoresponders on their "postmaster" and "abuse" addresses that direct senders to other methods of contacting SpamCop. This is self-protection, in that many irate spammers have probably made it a point to abuse those two addresses in ways not typically found with other domains. Any ISP that uses a blocklist should also provide users a method of opting out of that blocklist. In the case of SpamCop Email users, we get to pick and choose from a menu of blocklists in our Options. Bottom line, you won't be able to send to any recipient whose ISP doesn't provide their users with adequate options to unblock and/or whitelist desireable senders. DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loafman Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Any ISP that uses a blocklist should also provide users a method of opting out of that blocklist. In the case of SpamCop Email users, we get to pick and choose from a menu of blocklists in our Options. They send to postmaster and webmaster as often as any of my spamtraps. To those idiots its just another confirmed name that RFC's say has to exist. I get all of those mails, and most of it is spam, maybe 1:1000 real versus spam. If SC had postmaster open, spammers would flood it just to be mean (themselves?). ...Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard W Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 >>unless you are composing and sending your message directly from the WebMail I am using WebMail directly >>you are not even using SpamCop for SMTP service I belive I am using SpamCop SMTP Also, I belive that SpamCop is on the rfc-ignorant.org blacklist. can you say ironic? Regards, 14196[/snapback] SpamCop does not offer SMTP, so you are either sending from your ISP's server, your own smtp engine or webmail. Postmaster[at] and abuse[at] do exist, but the sender gets an auto-ack back listing the addresses to use depending on their problem. It sounds like the problem is your recipient is rejecting mail based on your "from" address rather than the server the mail is coming from. If you are sending from webmail, the servers identify themselve's as cesmail, not SpamCop. Your recipient should change their setup to reject mail based on the server the mail is from, not the email address. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbiel Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 SpamCop does not offer SMTP, so you are either sending from your ISP's server, your own smtp engine or webmail. Postmaster[at] and abuse[at] do exist, but the sender gets an auto-ack back listing the addresses to use depending on their problem. It sounds like the problem is your recipient is rejecting mail based on your "from" address rather than the server the mail is coming from. If you are sending from webmail, the servers identify themselve's as cesmail, not SpamCop. Your recipient should change their setup to reject mail based on the server the mail is from, not the email address. Richard 14400[/snapback] Now I am afraid that Richard is confusing me. Richard quotes"Rob Lapensee" as QUOTE(Rob Lapensee [at] Jul 29 2004, 08:21 AM) >>unless you are composing and sending your message directly from the WebMail I am using WebMail directly (color added to separate the reply for the previous quote Which seems to clearly state that he is using the WebMail interface. If Spamcop does not offer SMTP services, how does it deliver mail that is composed on its servers. I know it is true that SpamCop does not offer SMTP services outside of its own interface. But is not SMTP that standard protocol for internet email? Or do I need to be educated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenUnderwood Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 I took it that Richard missed that part of the quote....however the rest of his message seems to be valid. I have checked myself and the servers are identified as cesmail.net (which is NOT listed in rfc-ignorant) and none of the ip addresses are either, so it seems the block is being caused by the received from field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidT Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 the [spamcop] servers are identified as cesmail.net (which is NOT listed in rfc-ignorant) and none of the ip addresses are either, so it seems the block is being caused by the received from field. 14443[/snapback] Yes, exactly. I just used the SC webmail system to send two test messages to the postmaster address at the aci.on.ca system. The first one, sent from my actual SpamCop.net address was bounced back with the error reported by the OP, while the second, also sent from the SC webmail system, but using one of my other identities (and therefore a different "From" address) apparently made it through to them. dt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefft Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Yes, exactly. I just used the SC webmail system to send two test messages to the postmaster address at the aci.on.ca system. The first one, sent from my actual SpamCop.net address was bounced back with the error reported by the OP, while the second, also sent from the SC webmail system, but using one of my other identities (and therefore a different "From" address) apparently made it through to them. dt 14447[/snapback] That's right. To use rfc-ignorant lists, you have to implement RHS checking, which checks the right-hand side of a connecting email address. So, they won't allow incoming mail from spamcop.net no matter where it originates from. As others have mentioned, the postmaster address at spamcop is an autoresponder. It's so widely forged in spam and used as a spam return address that it would be useless trying to read that email address. We've received thousands of bounces per hour to that address at various times. We're not likely to start reading the postmaster address. We could just silently delete incoming mail to that address (which is probably what a lot of domains do). That would get us off their list, but wouldn't really help the users. The rfc-ignorant guys will say we're wrong, I guess, but we'll just have to live with that. JT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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