Yet another silly Cartooney

[disgruntled]

The only way to prevent ever being on a blocklist is to control your own IP address (i.e. get a static IP and run your own server).

It's not the only way at all. An alternative is to work within the legal framework to have operations like SpamCop closed down.

Being denied legitimate mail is an absolutely outrageous infringement, and it needs to stop.

[StevenUnderwood]

It's not the only way at all. An alternative is to work within the legal framework to have operations like SpamCop closed down.

Being denied legitimate mail is an absolutely outrageous infringement, and it needs to stop.

You have no right to send ANY message to my server. If I wanted, I could block every server from sending me email, but then there is no reason to run the server.

First, there is no legal recourse to shut spamcop down. It is a private business publishing a list for which there is proof spam recently came from the IP addresses listed.

Second shutting down spamcop will NOT guarantee you can send email. There are thousands of blocklists available on the internet and possibly a million more private ones in use around the world. Spamcop is more aggressive in listing, but also more lienient as it delists automatically. Other lists you will never get off of.

[Miss Betsy]

It's not the only way at all. An alternative is to work within the legal framework to have operations like SpamCop closed down.

Being denied legitimate mail is an absolutely outrageous infringement, and it needs to stop.

If you don't like the use of blocklists, then don't use an ISP who uses blocklists. And urge your friends to choose ISPs who don't use blocklists. However, since it is the natural way to control unwanted email on the internet and other spam filtering methods are not as effective (nor do they notify you when there is a problem), most people will eventually prefer to use email services that block the spam and let their correspondents who are using spam spewing services find better ways to contact them.

The beauty of blocklists is that it puts the burden of controlling spam on the sender - the only ones who can control spam effectively by not allowing it to be sent. Innocent receivers don't have to do anything.

Miss Betsy

[disgruntled]

You have no right to send ANY message to my server.

Agreed.

Similarly, you have no right to deny me the receipt of legitimate mail.

First, there is no legal recourse to shut spamcop down.

... yet ...

Second shutting down spamcop will NOT guarantee you can send email. There are thousands of blocklists available on the internet and possibly a million more private ones in use around the world. Spamcop is more aggressive in listing, but also more lienient as it delists automatically. Other lists you will never get off of.

Duly noted. However, it's interesting to point out that Spamcop's list is the only one to have given me problems in nearly four years with my current e-mail provider. Not one of these thousands of other blocklists have caused me to be blocked in all that time.

I therefore conclude: 1) Remove Spamcop, remove my email problem. 2) Spamcop's inclusion 'algorithm' needs some professional attention.

[dbiel]

However, it's interesting to point out that Spamcop's list is the only one to have given me problems in nearly four years with my current e-mail provider. Not one of these thousands of other blocklists have caused me to be blocked in all that time.

And what makes you believe that this is a true statement. Do you confirm with every recepient of your email that they have actually received it? If not, you have absolute no way of knowing how many messages are being discarded due to blocking lists or filters which never send back any messages that they have blocked or discarded your message.

And I will repeat, if you are going to use email for business purposes you need to learn how it actually works, not just make assumptions such as "I click on send and the message is delivered". There are countless things that can go wrong which result in an email message not being delivered. It is far less reliable than the US post office (I receive an average 4 pieces of mail (every week) in my mail box that are not addressed to me. (sometime many more) Some of it is very important mail such as Propery Tax Bills and credit card statements, not to mention junk mail; all delivered to the wrong address.

Do you make use of confirmed receipt? Definately helps to let you know if mail was actually delivered and read. Of course the receipent has the option of refusing to send them back.

[Wazoo]

This bit of simply silly stuff was split out of the "real discussion" it was posted into, made it's own Topic/Discussion ..... then "closed" so as to stop comtinued posting into this specific item (as the same Topic starter went ahead and started yet another Topic, which also created some discussion, and the way that conversation has gone, caused me to move that Topic/Discussion to the Lounge area as simply being nothing more than clueless ranting) .... and as this is basically a continuation of that theme, this set of postings is also being moved to the Lounge area ....

The issue is that the "Help" Forum sections are for asking and receiving "Help" .... Paying no attention to replies made, ignoring suggested links for further research, not getting beyond simply asking and re-asking the same question that has been replied to by a half-dozen people in a half-dozen different ways, yet the only "follow-up" by the original poster is to ask the same question over and over does not seem to fit any kind of a "Help" definition that I can find.

[disgruntled]

And I will repeat, if you are going to use email for business purposes you need to learn how it actually works, not just make assumptions such as "I click on send and the message is delivered". There are countless things that can go wrong which result in an email message not being delivered. It is far less reliable than the US post office (I receive an average 4 pieces of mail (every week) in my mail box that are not addressed to me. (sometime many more) Some of it is very important mail such as Propery Tax Bills and credit card statements, not to mention junk mail; all delivered to the wrong address.

Perhaps we're getting to the nub of the matter here. Your expectations appear to be a lot lower than mine. Maybe this is because I don't live in the US. Where I live, I never receive postal items addressed to someone else. I will also repeat that I have NEVER, in four years, had a single problem with non-delivery of email (save for the recent SpamCop-related trauma). That is no lie. If your experience of e-mail services in the US is such that you can't actually rely on them, then I guess that's your loss. But your assumption that it's a universal problem is wrong.

[Miss Betsy]

Perhaps we're getting to the nub of the matter here. Your expectations appear to be a lot lower than mine. Maybe this is because I don't live in the US. Where I live, I never receive postal items addressed to someone else. I will also repeat that I have NEVER, in four years, had a single problem with non-delivery of email (save for the recent SpamCop-related trauma). That is no lie. If your experience of e-mail services in the US is such that you can't actually rely on them, then I guess that's your loss. But your assumption that it's a universal problem is wrong.

And your assumption that enough people have problems with the spamcop blocklist that it should be abolished could be wrong also. You don't like it. However, there are others that do.

If you are going to do business on the internet, then you need to understand the system. No one else has been able to come up with a better system than blocklists that either reject email based on certain criteria or tag it as spam for those who want to manually inspect it.

Many ISPs do not use rejection messages, but simply throw away anything tagged as spam (and they are not using spamcop, but other filters) which, IMHO, is worse than receiving an email that my email didn't go through.

Miss Betsy