hotmail blocking spamcop.net?

[duane]

I just tried to reply to an email from my brother - he sent me an email from his hotmail - and I just got a "denied" style message from hotmail/live servers telling me the IP was on the ban list and it wouldnt even try to send it.

Message: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

The following message to <his email> was undeliverable.

The reason for the problem:

5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-"SC-001 (COL0-MC2-F13) Unfortunately, messages from 216.154.195.49 weren't sent. Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their network is on our block list. You can also refer your provider to http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors."

Why is my paid-for email with spamcop on a blocked list? When can I send email to my brother again?

[turetzsr]

Hi, duane,

...Sorry to hear of your problem. If a reply is not forthcoming soon (say, within a week, less if you are not inclined to wait that long) here, I would refer you to the SpamCop e-mail contact form at URL http://mail.spamcop.net/contact.php for a more direct approach.

...Good luck!

[lisati]

A bit of extra info that might be helpful in the troubleshooting process: I did a quick check of the IP address given and discovered a listing in spam.dnsbl.sorbs.net

[duane]

A bit of extra info that might be helpful in the troubleshooting process: I did a quick check of the IP address given and discovered a listing in spam.dnsbl.sorbs.net

A trace-route of the ip that I did before posting shows it is the ip of spamcops email server

EDIT:

http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=...+216.154.195.49

Output:

IP address: 216.154.195.49

Host name: c60.cesmail.net

216.154.195.49 is from United States(US) in region North America

TraceRoute to 216.154.195.49 [c60.cesmail.net]

Hop (ms) (ms) (ms) IP Address Host name

1 1 0 0 8.9.232.73 xe-5-3-0.edge3.dallas1.level3.net

2 0 0 0 4.69.145.190 vlan80.csw3.dallas1.level3.net

3 0 0 0 4.69.151.158 ae-83-83.ebr3.dallas1.level3.net

4 20 20 20 4.69.134.22 ae-7-7.ebr3.atlanta2.level3.net

5 20 20 22 4.69.148.254 ae-73-73.ebr2.atlanta2.level3.net

6 20 20 20 4.69.150.79 ae-2-52.edge1.atlanta4.level3.net

7 20 20 20 4.53.234.18 time-warner.edge1.atlanta4.level3.net

8 20 20 20 66.192.244.46 atl1-ar1-xe-0-0-0-0.us.twtelecom.net

9 22 21 21 64.88.172.198 ten1-2.core2.suw1.qualitytech.com

10 22 22 22 64.88.172.102 gig12-2.zone1-gw1.suw1.qualitytech.com

11 21 22 22 216.154.195.49 c60.cesmail.net

Trace complete

EDIT Again: I just used the contact us page.. lets see if this gets traction..

[email_support]

Yes hotmail is blocking the outbound mailserver due to a lot of spam sent through the server. The spam was stopped as soon as we knew about it and I have reached out to hotmail to ask for delisting. I do not know how long it will take for the IP to be removed from the blocklist.

[lisati]

I'm wondering if MSN is looking at SORBS, there seems to be a listing there.

http://www.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?216.154.195.49

[Farelf]

I'm wondering if MSN is looking at SORBS, there seems to be a listing there. ...

One of the deeper mysteries is just what MSN uses lisati but I think the consensus is they do their own thing, based on traffic through their own network and (in this case) at their borders. Possibly variable within their regions too.

I don't think they use the SORBS blocklists (or any other public DNSbl). Any properly configured rejection based on a specific public bl will include reference to it (giving those who are blocked the opportunity to investigate and address the cause).

Oh, here's some of their own self-promotion on the efficacy of their spam protection:

We aren’t surprised that Hotmail’s spam protection is the best in the business

Blatant self-promotion of course, "no lies but careful selection of the criteria" is the usual formula but I don't think anyone would argue that their e-mail accounts are not well-screened from external spam. So they're smug about that and have a totally different agenda to those fighting spam in the wider world and certainly won't be doing SC any favors when it comes to delisting competitive mail servers (not even a relative "minnow" like SC/CESmail).

[ViRGE]

Yes hotmail is blocking the outbound mailserver due to a lot of spam sent through the server. The spam was stopped as soon as we knew about it and I have reached out to hotmail to ask for delisting. I do not know how long it will take for the IP to be removed from the blocklist.

Unless I'm missing something here, don't you need to be a CESmail/Spamcop subscriber to send out mail? Who signs up for Spamcop just to send mail? That strikes me as rather odd.

[petzl]

Unless I'm missing something here, don't you need to be a CESmail/Spamcop subscriber to send out mail? Who signs up for Spamcop just to send mail? That strikes me as rather odd.

Working fine now just sent a test mail to hotmail.

Just use Hotmail as a spamtrap never known Hotmail to block anything?

Yahoo servers would be a good target if they must most of the spam I get there comes from through Yahoo

[Farelf]

...Who signs up for Spamcop just to send mail? That strikes me as rather odd.

If I may intrude with a word or two on behalf of the sponsor . The integrated service (incorporating VER) has always been promoted as a way to keep spam out of the inbox (well, to reduce it). And to hit back, as a bonus, but optional of course. And when the world was young and spam was all 'mainsleaze' just the SC name in the domain must have deterred much.

The long-suffering SpamCop e-mail side of the combination, Jeff Tucker's CESmail.net (which equals, in part, "[at]spamcop.net email") really ought to be given some more respect (especially since JT hosts these forums - and the newsgroups):

SpamCop Email System for Individuals

The corporate mail service link has long-since been dropped from the main SC "Help" menus (they are different companies) but there are, no doubt, many corporate clients. The Wayback Machine archive retrieval of SC's help pages confirms this page (or its then-current equivalent) was once linked there:

Corporate Email Services

There is also the small business alternative:

Small Business Service

So yes, people (and businesses) certainly signed up "just to send mail", and hopefully they still do - or these members' discussion venues are about to go down the gurgler. What they mostly signed up for (if they heeded the way it was/is promoted) was to receive mail but few would bother to differentiate on that basis. These days the domain names [at]spamcop.net and [at]cesmail.net seem to be available to either or both customer groups and there is now a third - [at]cqmail.net, probably a useful flexibility since some over-zealous filters reject spamcop.net because it has "spam" in the name :angry: .

[rconner]

I've been using the CES mail service for years to conslidate mail from all my addresses & put them through the spam filters (so I can just visit SC and report what was detained). I actually don't use my spamcop address to send mail (although I could if I wanted).

-- rick

[lisati]

Yahoo servers would be a good target if they must most of the spam I get there comes from through Yahoo

Enough spam comes via Yahoo for me to notice too, which is a factor in my decision to set up my own private mail server nearly four years ago.

[DavidT]

Yes hotmail is blocking the outbound mailserver due to a lot of spam sent through the server. The spam was stopped as soon as we knew about it and I have reached out to hotmail to ask for delisting. I do not know how long it will take for the IP to be removed from the blocklist.

Hotmail/MSN is still actively blocking ALL messages sent via the CESMail (SpamCop.net) webmail system--I had one rejected to an MSN recipient last night, so I sent a test just now to my own Hotmail address and got this error:

The following message to <[redacted](at)hotmail.com> was undeliverable.

The reason for the problem:

5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-"SC-001 (SNT0-MC4-F30) Unfortunately, messages from 216.154.195.49 weren't sent. Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their network is on our block list. You can also refer your provider to http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors."

I'm pretty sure that it's indeed based on the SORBS listing, as follows:

Problem Entries, (listings will cause email problems.)

2 "spam" entries [23:24:37 03 Jun 2011 GMT+00].

216.154.195.49 - 2 entries [23:24:37 03 Jun 2011 GMT+00]

Problem hostnames/domains (could cause email problems.)

2 "Spamvertised" entries [23:24:37 03 Jun 2011 GMT+00].

216.154.195.49 - 2 entries [23:24:37 03 Jun 2011 GMT+00].

There are more details available when logged into SORBS. The key however, is that it doesn't appear that anyone has opened a ticket with SORBS on this, which should only be done by the CESMail system admins. These listings are over a year old and should be fairly easy to get delisted (it can be done automatically if you can connect to the delisting system *from* the IP in question, otherwise, a ticket must be opened).

So, on the possible chance that Hotmail/MSN is indeed using the SORBS listing as part of their blocking formula, I would urge "Email Support" to log into www.sorbs.net (using an account) and to open a ticket to get the server IP delisted. I typically send only using the webmail system, so this means I can't send to any MSN/Hotmail addresses--including my own!

DT

[email_support]

Hotmail/MSN is still actively blocking ALL messages sent via the CESMail (SpamCop.net) webmail system--I had one rejected to an MSN recipient last night, so I sent a test just now to my own Hotmail address and got this error:

The following message to <[redacted](at)hotmail.com> was undeliverable.

The reason for the problem:

5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-"SC-001 (SNT0-MC4-F30) Unfortunately, messages from 216.154.195.49 weren't sent. Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their network is on our block list. You can also refer your provider to http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors."

I'm pretty sure that it's indeed based on the SORBS listing, as follows:

Problem Entries, (listings will cause email problems.)

2 "spam" entries [23:24:37 03 Jun 2011 GMT+00].

216.154.195.49 - 2 entries [23:24:37 03 Jun 2011 GMT+00]

Problem hostnames/domains (could cause email problems.)

2 "Spamvertised" entries [23:24:37 03 Jun 2011 GMT+00].

216.154.195.49 - 2 entries [23:24:37 03 Jun 2011 GMT+00].

There are more details available when logged into SORBS. The key however, is that it doesn't appear that anyone has opened a ticket with SORBS on this, which should only be done by the CESMail system admins. These listings are over a year old and should be fairly easy to get delisted (it can be done automatically if you can connect to the delisting system *from* the IP in question, otherwise, a ticket must be opened).

So, on the possible chance that Hotmail/MSN is indeed using the SORBS listing as part of their blocking formula, I would urge "Email Support" to log into www.sorbs.net (using an account) and to open a ticket to get the server IP delisted. I typically send only using the webmail system, so this means I can't send to any MSN/Hotmail addresses--including my own!

DT

You are correct. Hotmail is blocking our outbound mailserver. The spam has been stopped and we now have to wait until hotmail lifts the block. My apologies for the inconvenience.

Hotmail blocks do not depend on SORBS listings.

I urge all users to ensure that they are using strong passwords, to change those passwords regularly and to be cautious in using public computers and circumspect in their use of public wifi.

[DavidT]

Hotmail blocks do not depend on SORBS listings.

Actually, I've found some evidence to the contrary. While they don't "depend" on SORBS, I've found quite a few other mentions of their blocking non-spammy messages from IPs listed only on SORBS, which is the case here. Therefore, even if you've seen something that claims they don't use SORBS in their (surely not public?) blocking recipe, I would urge you to submit the request to SORBS to delist the IP--just in case....please?

I have a SORBS login and could open a ticket with them on this, but I'm only a user/customer and it usually works much better for the admin of a system to request delisting (assuming it will work at all).

DT

[email_support]

Actually, I've found some evidence to the contrary. While they don't "depend" on SORBS, I've found quite a few other mentions of their blocking non-spammy messages from IPs listed only on SORBS, which is the case here. Therefore, even if you've seen something that claims they don't use SORBS in their (surely not public?) blocking recipe, I would urge you to submit the request to SORBS to delist the IP--just in case....please?

I have a SORBS login and could open a ticket with them on this, but I'm only a user/customer and it usually works much better for the admin of a system to request delisting (assuming it will work at all).

DT

Really, this has nothing to do with SORBS. It has to do with Hotmail or one of their properties receiving a large number of actual spams from our outbound mailserver.

Regarding SORBS, I have had dismal results in the past trying to jump through their hoops for delisting and I do not have the inclination to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to do it again. But if you do have a login and can try to request a delisting that would be fine.

[DavidT]

But if you do have a login and can try to request a delisting that would be fine.

OK, thanks. I just opened tickets for the two SORBS listings and will report back here if and when there's any resolution.

DT

[DavidT]

Good news on the SORBS listings--they took immediate action to de-list the IP, which means our deliverability to ISPs who include a SORBS listing in their IP reputation scoring will improve--for now, at least. For example, I have been corresponding with a friend who works for a small tech firm, and when he replies to my email messages, they come back with the telltale "Re: [spam]" tags in the Subject lines, indicating that his system has flagged my messages a potential spam. Given that the only RBL or other listing service that had CESMail's sending IP listed was SORBS, it's quite possible that flagging was due to the listing...or maybe not. :-)

DT

[email_support]

Good news on the SORBS listings--they took immediate action to de-list the IP, which means our deliverability to ISPs who include a SORBS listing in their IP reputation scoring will improve--for now, at least. For example, I have been corresponding with a friend who works for a small tech firm, and when he replies to my email messages, they come back with the telltale "Re: [spam]" tags in the Subject lines, indicating that his system has flagged my messages a potential spam. Given that the only RBL or other listing service that had CESMail's sending IP listed was SORBS, it's quite possible that flagging was due to the listing...or maybe not. :-)

DT

TY

[cherrick]

The following message to <xxxx[at]hotmail.com> was undeliverable.

The reason for the problem:

5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-"SC-001 (BAY0-MC2-F12) Unfortunately, messages from 216.154.195.49 weren't sent. Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their network is on our block list. You can also refer your provider to http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors."

Is this just "no hueno" as they say down here in Texas?

[cherrick]

So, no hueno then.

[DavidT]

So, no hueno then.

My Spanish isn't great, but I'm pretty sure you meant "no bueno" (not good) and sí, no es bueno! The blocking continues to this day, and I'm having to use a Gmail account to send instead of SpamCop webmail, which does indeed negate the value of paying for a CESMail account. This must be fixed muy pronto.

dt

[petzl]

My Spanish isn't great, but I'm pretty sure you meant "no bueno" (not good) and sí, no es bueno! The blocking continues to this day, and I'm having to use a Gmail account to send instead of SpamCop webmail, which does indeed negate the value of paying for a CESMail account. This must be fixed muy pronto.

dt

Might be just WebMail Blocked?

Final-Recipient: rfc822;WilliamHenryGates[at]hotmail.com

Action: failed

Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)

Remote-MTA: dns; [65.55.92.184]

Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-"SC-001 (SNT0-MC4-F19) Unfortunately, messages from 216.154.195.49 weren't sent. Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their network is on our block list. You can also refer your provider to http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors." (delivery attempts: 0)

Reporting-MTA: dns; c60.cesmail.net

Not had problems using SMTP?

The first time I've used webmail for years now.

That's because I JUST got a error trying to send plain text message, 4 lines only, via SMTP?

The size of the message you are trying to send exceeds a temporary size limit of the server. The message was not sent; try to reduce the message size or wait some time and try again. The server responded: 4.3.1 Insufficient system storage.

Have to face up to using Gmail permanently SpamCop is falling over too many times for me :angry:

[turetzsr]

<snip>I JUST got a error trying to send plain text message, 4 lines only, via SMTP?

The size of the message you are trying to send exceeds a temporary size limit of the server. The message was not sent; try to reduce the message size or wait some time and try again. The server responded: 4.3.1 Insufficient system storage.

<snip>

...Please see "[Resolved] Server error sending mail: Insufficient Storage." Follow-ups regarding this error there rather than here, please.

[DavidT]

Good news: as of this evening, we can now once again send email to Hotmail and MSN addresses from SpamCop webmail. Support responded to my ticket and I successfully sent a test message that got through.

DT