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Understanding when I first started, and feedback


OldNick

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I hope this does not get me into "trouble". I admire this site, and I am doing everything to report stuff. No I have not paid yet, but it's only been a couple of days. I am saying this because I want to attract as many people as possible to sites like these, in the hope that sheer numbers will give better results against the spammers and other leeches./.......hrppmh! Sorry....

I am of reasonable intelligence, if perhaps a little impatient. I am a lot MORE patient than a lot of people on the Web, from what I see, when it comes to trying programmes, sites etc..

Now that I am signed up, and can simply be passed straight to the reporting form by clicking on spamcop.com, I am fine. It's about as easy as it can get.

But I feel that the site is a bit messy, when you first come to have a look. I get the impression tnat the system may have grown beyond the original concept?

For instance

* I was trying go get to these forums, and started to see the same pages again and again as I pressed options. Sometimes this happens if cookies are wrong on my machine, or whatever. But this I felt was simply me pressing the wrong buttons. For example, it was not obvious that the Forums part, with the General help etc, below it, was a sort of submenu.

_ again,. I am fine NOW, because I know where I am going, but it was confusing when I first tried it

* when I first tried reporting, I read all sorts of stuff abouit "How to report". But most of it seemed concerned with _what_ to report. I was hard-pushed to find a simple How-to, step by step guide.

* having found that I could report via email or form, I tried email.

- I was never sure whether I needed to get new access when I wanted to report again, and get a new email authorisation, or whether I could simply keep using the same one. I believe I can keep using the same one. This is mentioned when you apply, I admit, but not emphasised.

- I have never had any sort of response to those emails, so I could never know if I was -reallY- sending a report, or if it was in correct format, with enough comments etc.

* On the subject of feedback, I would like to know that what I send is right, or working. This seems to be done on the online form, but emailed stuff just disappears AFAICS.

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* having found that I could report via email or form, I tried email.

      - I was never sure whether I needed to get new access when I wanted to report again, and get a new email authorisation, or whether I could simply keep using the same one. I believe I can keep using the same one. This is mentioned when you apply, I admit, but not emphasised.

                - I have never had any sort of response to those emails, so I could never know if I was -reallY- sending a report, or if it was in correct format, with enough comments etc.

    * On the subject of feedback, I would like to know that what I send is right, or working. This seems to be done on the online form, but emailed stuff just disappears AFAICS.

Something certainly sounds wrong with your no reponse to email submissions. Emailed spam should go through the same process as those pasted into the web page, including you getting to review what or whether to report and tracking codes etc. There are different types of membership and so on but, assuming they mostly function the way mine does, you should get back an email saying "SpamCop has accepted X spam" and giving you a link for each one to review and report or cancel. Did you get a notification at some stage like:

From:  SpamCop Authorization System <nobody[at]devnull.spamcop.net>

To:    "Alias" <you[at]your.net>

Subject:  SpamCop authorization

...

Forward your spam to:

submit.(16 digit A/N)[at]spam.spamcop.net

Add this to your address-book.  You may forward spam to this addresses

from any account.

Alternately, you can submit spam via the web here:

(http://)www.spamcop.net/?code=(same 16 digit A/N)

Put this URL into your web-browser. Once you get to the SpamCop site,

bookmark that page.  Then just use the bookmark to return when you get

some spam.

...

That has your personalized address for emailing which uses the same 16 digit code that you use for submitting via the web. I think a few people get caught out by that email address, as you might have seen elsewhere (ie the [at]spam. part) Even if you haven't received the confirming email, if you go to the web page - (http://)www.spamcop.net/?code=(same 16 digit A/N) - if SpamCop has processed your spam, there will be a message that you have unreported spam and providing a link for you to start reviewing.

Don't mention your actual 16 digit code here of course.

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reporting form by clicking on spamcop.com

This is actually spamcop.net ..... the .com folks are lowlife scum ...

Thanks Wazoo - missed that, it just might expain a lot.

why are the spamcop.com folks scum? just curious?
If .net existed first, a .com of the same name, different ownership, in the same area of business is clearly a bit if a shill. Curious myself how this could be permitted.
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Some ancient history on the .net / .com thing ... once upon a time, Julian did 'own' both of them .... There's a lot more to the story, but short form is that an expiration date arrived, notification not handled, and someone took advantage of the situation and grabbed the .com domain. I ssem to recall that it's actually changed owners a number of times, but all taking advantage of the average joe/judy's typing skills .... actually, if ne looks close, it was (and probably still is) an interesting re-direct, in that typing in www.spamcop.com actually took you to vww.spamcop.com ... if you don't see the difference, look very closely at the www (vice vww) ...

Then there are the occasional users that come in very irate with the software that they bought from SpamCop and, of course, it sucks ... you can try all you want, but there isn't any software sold at spamcop.net ..... so obviously, the spamcop.com shows up that way also ....

Do you really need more than this to make your own decision on the .com folks?

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Now that I am signed up, and can simply be passed straight to the reporting form by clicking on spamcop.com, I am fine. It's about as easy as it can get.

But I feel that the site is a bit messy, when you first come to have a look. I get the impression tnat the system may have grown beyond the original concept?

If one was to assume that the spamcop.com was simply a typo, and you really meant spamcop.net .... I find your next line a bit confusing. Technically, your clicked link would take you to a page that has a big box in the middle of the screen for you to paste your spam into the box. I'm having a hard time how that could be messy and confusing ... so, was that actually a typo? (and no, I'm ot goin got go to spamcop.com to see what crap they've got there these days)

not obvious that the Forums part, with the General help etc, below it, was a sort of submenu.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here, as "these Forums" don't have a General Help item .... Admin Messages is one block, then SpamCop Discussions, then Board Statistics ... ???? I can only guess that you're really talking about the Help pages on spamcop.net web pages ..?? Not fair to try to confuse the issue here ... There's been some dialog on creating some new FAQ pages here, possibly allowing some of 'us' to get into and change pages data/content on the spamcop.net web pages ... but this hasn't happened yet ... and noting that even what "we've" tried to set up here for FAQ/Help stuff has brought fire from some folks.

when I first tried reporting, I read all sorts of stuff abouit "How to report". But most of it seemed concerned with _what_ to report. I was hard-pushed to find a simple How-to, step by step guide.

Going back to the "original page" ... not sure how hard it is to go with the flow when the instructions are "paste your spam in here" .... sure, we then quickly get into the issues of headers (and how to get them) .. and the actual e-mail / spam construction itself .. but that's beyond the level that your comment here gets into ..

* having found that I could report via email or form, I tried email.

- I was never sure whether I needed to get new access when I wanted to report again, and get a new email authorisation, or whether I could simply keep using the same one. I believe I can keep using the same one. This is mentioned when you apply, I admit, but not emphasised.

- I have never had any sort of response to those emails, so I could never know if I was -reallY- sending a report, or if it was in correct format, with enough comments etc.

* On the subject of feedback, I would like to know that what I send is right, or working. This seems to be done on the online form, but emailed stuff just disappears AFAICS.

The problem here starts with you're not actually saying that you managed to get the "paste-it-in-here" submittal version to fly or not. All the rest of "found out about submitting by e-mail" is kind of superfluous until you can get that to work. You never state how you "found out" about e-mail submittals, so perhaps that's another part of the issue ... perhaps reading postings from people with a paid reporting / e-mail account and making the assumption that the same data applied to your account? Again, don't know the history and you're asking me to fill in the gaps .... not going to try that ...

So as far as going forward, I'd suggest you take a few steps back and get the paste-it-into-the-web-form working first .. then move on to trying submitting via e-mail.

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* having found that I could report via email or form, I tried email.

      - I was never sure whether I needed to get new access when I wanted to report again, and get a new email authorisation, or whether I could simply keep using the same one. I believe I can keep using the same one. This is mentioned when you apply, I admit, but not emphasised.

                - I have never had any sort of response to those emails, so I could never know if I was -reallY- sending a report, or if it was in correct format, with enough comments etc.

    * On the subject of feedback, I would like to know that what I send is right, or working. This seems to be done on the online form, but emailed stuff just disappears AFAICS.

Something certainly sounds wrong with your no reponse to email submissions. Emailed spam should go through the same process as those pasted into the web page, including you getting to review what or whether to report and tracking codes etc. There are different types of membership and so on but, assuming they mostly function the way mine does, you should get back an email saying "SpamCop has accepted X spam" and giving you a link for each one to review and report or cancel. Did you get a notification at some stage like:

From:  SpamCop Authorization System <nobody[at]devnull.spamcop.net>

To:    "Alias" <you[at]your.net>

Subject:  SpamCop authorization

...

Forward your spam to:

submit.(16 digit A/N)[at]spam.spamcop.net

Add this to your address-book.  You may forward spam to this addresses

from any account.

Alternately, you can submit spam via the web here:

(http://)www.spamcop.net/?code=(same 16 digit A/N)

Put this URL into your web-browser. Once you get to the SpamCop site,

bookmark that page.  Then just use the bookmark to return when you get

some spam.

...

That has your personalized address for emailing which uses the same 16 digit code that you use for submitting via the web. I think a few people get caught out by that email address, as you might have seen elsewhere (ie the [at]spam. part) Even if you haven't received the confirming email, if you go to the web page - (http://)www.spamcop.net/?code=(same 16 digit A/N) - if SpamCop has processed your spam, there will be a message that you have unreported spam and providing a link for you to start reviewing.

Don't mention your actual 16 digit code here of course.

Thanks for replying.

I use the online form nowm, as in the end it was responding, and seemed simpler, being a "oneshot" sort of action, once I had it bookmarked. However, the email non-reposnse thing still puzzles me.

I have had email messages from spamcop autorisation. But they were simply letting me know what address to send the message to, when I asked to authorisation. It is a 16 digit code[at] as you say

When you say "People get caught out by that address" I am not sure what you mean. As far as I know I cannot send email to the web page address...or can I? I had not thought of that possibility. Is that what you meant?

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reporting form by clicking on spamcop.com

This is actually spamcop.net ..... the .com folks are lowlife scum ...

Yes. I am sorry. I saw that after I posted. I should have posted a correction. Again sorry.

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Some ancient history on the .net / .com thing ... once upon a time, Julian did 'own' both of them ....  There's a lot more to the story, but short form is that an expiration date arrived, notification not handled, and someone took advantage of the situation and grabbed the .com domain.  I ssem to recall that it's actually changed owners a number of times, but all taking advantage of the average joe/judy's typing skills .... actually, if ne looks close, it was (and probably still is) an interesting re-direct, in that typing in www.spamcop.com actually took you to vww.spamcop.com ... if you don't see the difference, look very closely at the www (vice vww) ... 

Then there are the occasional users that come in very irate with the software that they bought from SpamCop and, of course, it sucks ...  you can try all you want, but there isn't any software sold at spamcop.net .....  so obviously, the spamcop.com shows up that way also ....

Do you really need more than this to make your own decision on the .com folks?

Having been to spamcop.com, I find that while I am talking of _over_ compication here, I saw way too much simpicity there <G>

AFAICS, you could simply dump in a report. No verification etc. It looked suss. There was no forum, or contact address, that I could see.

Also, after the message I trialled over there was parsed, it still had all of my email detisl shown in the header. AFAIK, spamcop.net nunges those. That concened me If I do read that rights, it could simply _increase_ my spam! (???)

I could be talking through my hat, as I am only just picking up in all this.

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Now that I am signed up, and can simply be passed straight to the reporting form by clicking on spamcop.com, I am fine. It's about as easy as it can get.

But I feel that the site is a bit messy, when you first come to have a look. I get the impression tnat the system may have grown beyond the original concept?

If one was to assume that the spamcop.com was simply a typo, and you really meant spamcop.net .... I find your next line a bit confusing. Technically, your clicked link would take you to a page that has a big box in the middle of the screen for you to paste your spam into the box. I'm having a hard time how that could be messy and confusing ... so, was that actually a typo? (and no, I'm ot goin got go to spamcop.com to see what crap they've got there these days)

not obvious that the Forums part, with the General help etc, below it, was a sort of submenu.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here, as "these Forums" don't have a General Help item .... Admin Messages is one block, then SpamCop Discussions, then Board Statistics ... ???? I can only guess that you're really talking about the Help pages on spamcop.net web pages ..?? Not fair to try to confuse the issue here ... There's been some dialog on creating some new FAQ pages here, possibly allowing some of 'us' to get into and change pages data/content on the spamcop.net web pages ... but this hasn't happened yet ... and noting that even what "we've" tried to set up here for FAQ/Help stuff has brought fire from some folks.

when I first tried reporting, I read all sorts of stuff abouit "How to report". But most of it seemed concerned with _what_ to report. I was hard-pushed to find a simple How-to, step by step guide.

Going back to the "original page" ... not sure how hard it is to go with the flow when the instructions are "paste your spam in here" .... sure, we then quickly get into the issues of headers (and how to get them) .. and the actual e-mail / spam construction itself .. but that's beyond the level that your comment here gets into ..

* having found that I could report via email or form, I tried email.

- I was never sure whether I needed to get new access when I wanted to report again, and get a new email authorisation, or whether I could simply keep using the same one. I believe I can keep using the same one. This is mentioned when you apply, I admit, but not emphasised.

- I have never had any sort of response to those emails, so I could never know if I was -reallY- sending a report, or if it was in correct format, with enough comments etc.

* On the subject of feedback, I would like to know that what I send is right, or working. This seems to be done on the online form, but emailed stuff just disappears AFAICS.

The problem here starts with you're not actually saying that you managed to get the "paste-it-in-here" submittal version to fly or not. All the rest of "found out about submitting by e-mail" is kind of superfluous until you can get that to work. You never state how you "found out" about e-mail submittals, so perhaps that's another part of the issue ... perhaps reading postings from people with a paid reporting / e-mail account and making the assumption that the same data applied to your account? Again, don't know the history and you're asking me to fill in the gaps .... not going to try that ...

So as far as going forward, I'd suggest you take a few steps back and get the paste-it-into-the-web-form working first .. then move on to trying submitting via e-mail.

OK. Sorry. spamcop.net. Typo...sort of. As you said, "com" and "net" usually tie in, but this one has splintered. I was not aware.

I stress that as I said, _now that I am signed up_ it's not confusing. I get the entry box you describe.

My whole problem was when I first came to the site, trying to get onto to it, get autorisation, and trying to find out a step by step process description.

I think you have missed my point. I _am_ at the stage where I can simply post. I don't need to "go back a few steps" and in fact it's back a few steps, at that first contact, that I am talking about.

I have worked it out and reported dozens of spams. But having worked it out, I found that it was not as easy as I would have thought to attract the _first time_ user, whi is simply referred to "try www.spamcom.net" and comes to the site.

I have also posted via email. So far, as I said...I have not had any responses. So I use the form so that I see that something happened.

WRT there being no "General Help" I quopte what _I_ see if I come to the site "raw"

http://www.spamcop.net ->

http://www.spamcop.net/help.shtml

"

SpamCop forum

New web-based forums have many extra features, including built-in search capability. Please observe the posting rules.

_General help_

If you are having trouble using SpamCop, if you have been listed on the SpamCop blocking list or are having trouble using the list, post here. "

I did try to keep stressing that all this was on the opening pages. I am sorry if I confused you.

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I am going down the path I knew I would. I am sad about that.

I feel that instead of saying "You are not making any sense" it would be more calming to all concerned to say that you do not understand. It leaves it open as to which side has failed, the writer or the reader, or as can so often happen, simply both. Simple oil on troubled waters.

I will deal with only one aspect, in case I was addressing too many points.

There is no question. It's a suggestion; a comment.

There does not appear to be a forum for straight suggestions, so I posted it here.

And i it is this:

I feel that the site _as it is first seen by someone who may hae been referred her for the time_, could be tidied up a bit to help attract new users.

When I am not logged in, before I was joined up, when I first _ever_ looked at www.spamcop.net, there was NOT an entry box to drop spam into.

I had to get authorisation, and then either report via email, or via the box that THEN appears once I am joined up and logged in. I can repeat the appearance of the page by Logging Out. For obvious reasons the reporting box disappears.

I found the site www.spamcop.net confusing before I was logged in, _right when I first came here_. I found the Help and FAQ also contained what seemed a lot more data on the general idea of spam reporting than on _how_ to use this site to report spam.

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If I submit an email report of spam, should I get some sort of feedback?

I have submitted email reports, and have had no email feedback.

I came to the www.spamcop.net site, and asked for authorisation, providing an email address and name. I then received an authorisation email, which had a 16-digitcode[at]spamcop.net.

In the authorisation email, I can click on the email address and have Outlook immediately set me up to send a spam.

I copied all header fields and message from a spam, and pasted it into the message portion of my email, using the above.

In the Title of my email I put "spam report".

I sent it. It did not bounce. I have not heard any more about it.

There is no email saying I got wrong, even.

At the moment I use the online form, copy and paste, the process spam then actually send the generated report. So I get a feedback of sorts. This seems to work, as the generated report shows all the needed details, and I have not had any rejected.

Am I doing something wrong in my attempts to email report?

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Sorry you're having a tough time with the forums. If I use the search facilities here (or the higher level Google at the Help page), I generally manage to find something.

Anyway, yes you should get something back, as shown in the pinned FAQ (down the bottom for the "technical details" Pinned: FAQ Entry: Emailed spam Submissions Disappearing? So far as using Outlook, maybe there's something in previous threads like Forwarding As Attachment in Outlook 2003? "Forwarding as attachment?" you ask. Well, if you do ask, maybe you haven't caught up with another FAQ How do I submit spam via email?

Hope this helps, come back if you still have difficulty but *do* try the search button as well :-)

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In the authorisation email, I can click on the email address and have Outlook immediately set me up to send a spam.

I copied all header fields and message from a spam, and pasted it into the message portion of my email, using the above.

In the Title of my email I put "spam report".

I sent it. It did not bounce. I have not heard any more about it.

There is no email saying I got wrong, even.

Your use of "Outlook" brings up a number of red flags.

At the moment I use the online form, copy and paste, the process spam then actually send the generated report. So I get a feedback of sorts. This seems to work, as the generated report shows all the needed details, and I have not had any rejected.

This seems a bit out of character for someone using "Outlook" .. there are usually numerous errors, as Outlook does terrible things in its handling of e-mail, and that you've made no mention of even trying the "Outlook/Eudora work-around" seems significant.

FAQ at http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/118.html is a mandatory read to sort out getting an actual good output set from Outlook to even think about getting a parse to run through at all, and that's just for the web form. E-mail submittal has other FAQs, which I believe have already been pointed out.

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Sorry you're having a tough time with the forums.  If I use the search facilities here (or the higher level Google at the Help page), I generally manage to find something.

Anyway, yes you should get something back, as shown in the pinned FAQ (down the bottom for the "technical details" Pinned: FAQ Entry: Emailed spam Submissions Disappearing?  So far as using Outlook, maybe there's something in previous threads like Forwarding As Attachment in Outlook 2003?  "Forwarding as attachment?" you ask.  Well, if you do ask, maybe you haven't caught up with another FAQ How do I submit spam via email?

Hope this helps, come back if you still have difficulty but *do* try the search button as well :-)

Ok. I take your comment about searchin first, up to a point.

I also admit that that I missed the reference to using an attachment, not just embedding the spam. I still feel there needs to be a real "Step by step" here. I am not a simpleton, but the info here is fairly overwhelming. Patience is not avirtue that I see displayed on the Web very much.

As far as I can see, "forwarding as an attachment" does not include OE (which is apparently NOT Outlook 2003. I checked that thread)

I know how to attach to OE. But given that there are specific instructions for heaps of others, I assumed there was more to it. I needed to be sure that I had all the formats, right, there were no gotchas about bist disappearing etc.

It would appear that my attempts at email failed theough my getting it wrong. Fine, but I received no notification of that failure and feel that this would have helped.

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I know how to attach to OE. But given that there are specific instructions for heaps of others, I assumed there was more to it. I needed to be sure that I had all the formats, right, there were no gotchas about bist disappearing etc.

It would appear that my attempts at email failed theough my getting it wrong. Fine, but I received no notification of that failure and feel that this would have helped.

I hope this means you are now "up and running"? I understand OE submission is delightfully simple, but have no personal experience. I think you are in front of the game relative to me - it took me 3 months to get to the multiple spam submission by email point with my mail client, mostly because it was "too easy to believe" but partly because I hadn't digested the FAQ material. It certainly *is* a bit of a learning curve at first blush. Accordingly I can sympathize with the call for a "step by step" guide (how many guides for how many clients and set-ups?) but I also see some more fundamental organization of the information requirements of this website (eg the FAQ) going begging at the moment, despite the best efforts of numerous unpaid volunteers.

As to your "no notification" while you were trying to submit issue, that *is* a puzzle. I probably received enough "SpamCop encountered difficulties" emails for both of us but if you haven't had any then there is something else going on and, back to my opening question are you getting notifications about your *successful* submissions? (ie, "SpamCop has accepted x emails for processing"). Don't see, offhand, how you could be. More detail so people can help you will be needed if you are still in difficulty. Even clarification that you use OE rather than just "Outlook" would be critically important in that context. You imply (stated it even, IIRC) you are more patient than most you see on the internet. If you don't mind that assertion being tested by the process (we're almost all just users, like you), I'm sure any remaining issues can be fully resolved.

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Given that there appears to be some sort of OE workaraound, I gather it's NOT simple at all. I had not seen that.

Still reckon the site needs a tidy-up to attract the more casual user (and that's what gets numbers). Possibly everything is altering too fast to keep up.

I have actually been posting moslty newsgroups spam. I tried to post an email spam, and it was rebuffed as being too old.

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OK. I have not ever succeeded using Outlook. I am posting Newsgroup messages, as I have been told I can, which are malicious spam. They come from Free Agent.

I have read pages of FAQ. many of them _looked_ as if they might apply to me, and did not , or did not help my situation. I feel as if I have been chastised for asking on the forums, which I thought were here for the purposes of informing people. Mostly I have been made to feel foolishm abd told to keep reading the FAQs.

I have read the FAQs. In the end I STILL reckon that I have gone further then most people would bother to go to use this service. Whether it's a fault of the service, or in the nature of the beast it's trying to fight, or both I cannot be sure.

I do know that belittling and questioning posters to a forum, however sweetly and gently, and simply repeatedly sending them back to the huge amount of info that they were running from, will do two things. It will remove poeple's interest from the subject, and not allow growth of the forums, so that as people learn from other's answers, they can take the load off the primary, Advanced: etc posters.

BTW. It is only by extreme luck and some totally clueless diligence that I found that my other message, posted to "keep things simple" as I had been told, had been moved back here. I wondered what the heck had happened to it.

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Given that there appears to be some sort of OE workaraound, I gather it's NOT simple at all. I had not seen that.

I believe the workaround is for Outlook - *not* OE which is described elsewhere (somewhere) in one or more topics/threads in this forum as easy to use.

Yes - the site is a dog's breakfast, not to be too unkind about it. But, it is easier if you can locate the resources.

As far as I can see, "forwarding as an attachment" does not include OE (which is apparently NOT Outlook 2003. I checked that thread)
Have you looked at: Outlook Express 4, 5 and 6 You *are* using OE? I'm not sure anymore.

[i should have clarified that the significant advice on the above link is *to try email submission first* and the supplied link from *there* is straight back to How do I submit spam by email?. And that is supposed to be easy with OE. Be of good cheer, nowithstanding an incompetent guide you *shall* get there!

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I do know that belittling and questioning posters to a forum, however sweetly and gently, and simply repeatedly sending them back to the huge amount of info that they were running from, will do two things. It will remove poeple's interest from the subject, and not allow growth of the forums, so that as people learn from other's answers, they can take the load off the primary, Advanced: etc posters.

Sorry, our previous posts crossed over, didn't ignore your post, just didn't see it. No offence or belittlement intended. I seem to be on completely the wrong tack anyway. I agree it is all very hard to cope with but have no answers for you on the basis of the information I have seen. Hopefully someone better acquainted with your specific issues can be of actual assistance with the detail of your difficulties in reporting newsgroup spam with whatever it is you're using.

It is only by extreme luck and some totally clueless diligence that I found that my other message, posted to "keep things simple" as I had been told, had been moved back here. I wondered what the heck had happened to it.
Try using the "My Assistant" pop-up (near the top right of any forum page when you are logged in).
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Given that there appears to be some sort of OE workaraound

huh????

I have not ever succeeded using Outlook

OK, you're getting me confused. Please note that Outlook and Outlook Express, although both developed and sold by Microsoft, are not the same product, don't look the same, and don't act the same. There is no way at this point to figure out if you're trying to use both products, just being lazy at tyoping in the product title, or are trying to apply the wrong instructions.

Once again, let's all go back to the beginning. Which application are you actually using?

I am posting Newsgroup messages

Where? I ask, because one would normally interpret this remark as "you've entered into a newsgroup and either posted a reply to someone else's post or started a new thread there yourself" .... however, I'm suspecting that based on the rest of the sentence, you actually meant "you've submitted some newsgroup posting to the spam parser" .. which also leaves us guessing as to how, where, etc. that this was accomplished.

They come from Free Agent

no idea what this means .... something from the newsgroup spam header perhaps?

i can't even come up with a better set of questions right now .. you've jumped around between different e-mail applications, you've talked about posting to the web-form, jumped to e-mail submittals, now pulled newsgroup stuff into the picture ... I know I've said it before ... start with identifying your app, follow the instructions on how to get the data for a good submittal, try the paste-it-in-fotm .. and when that actually works, then start branching out to include this other stuff.

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