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Can I report Bouced Spam to Spamcop


IHateSpam

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Several people have suggested several different things  - most of them are time consuming for very little immediate return.

/snip

Many large ISPs have been very slow to respond to complaints about spam coming from their networks, but eventually they all seem to start paying attention because they get enough complaints from their paying customers.

/snip

Miss Betsy

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true, I just got one such encouraging reply after submitting hundreds of spams from them:

We have added a block to this account, which we believe will stop further

problems of this kind. The customer has also been notified.

Please excuse the inconvenience.

--

Abuse Response Team

abuse[at]telenor.net

Telenor Norge

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Several people have suggested several different things  - most of them are time consuming for very little immediate return.

One thing that no one has suggested is that you complain to Wanadoo about unreliable service (or whoever is the owner of the IP address that is being blocked).  IMHO, it is the *sender* of email that needs to *do* something about spam.  Receivers should have little or no inconvenience.

Many large ISPs have been very slow to respond to complaints about spam coming from their networks, but eventually they all seem to start paying attention because they get enough complaints from their paying customers.

You have a range of options: from the most time consuming: learn how to read headers and find upstreams and go after the spammer by reporting and complaining to as many different people as you can that might have influence - not only by email but by phone and snail mail to the least timeconsuming:  use a good filter to  bit bucket the bounces and forget about it.

Miss Betsy

17850[/snapback]

But that doesn't relate to my problem. Once I realised a few Asian ISPs had blocked Wanadoo's outgoing server I stopped worrying about that. What I don't like is being joed, and any suggestions as to how to fight that would be great. If I apply your logic, the answer is to get their ISP blocked so its paying customers complain and they throw the spamvertised site off. A great idea except I can't get the ISP onto the blocklist because the spam I receive is bounced, and therefore the rules don't allow me to report the ISP.

When I try to discover UNICOM's upstream provider from APNIC I get... APNIC. RIRs don't take action on abuse issues, so that's the end of that avenue. The sender of the spam is a variety of trojanised machines across the net which get disconnected when I report them, but there are always more to take their place.

Even my MS mail application is very good at identifying the bounces and directing them to a special folder. I could easily delete them but that's no answer. Then the joers are getting away with it. What sort of answer is that?

I recognise I can't fight this on my own, so I'm looking for help. So far, all I have discovered is that SpamCop can't help. I'm told it is the wrong tool. Fine, so what is the right tool? That's all I want to know. I suspect none of you know either, so I'm wasting my time asking, aren't I?

KJP

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I recognise I can't fight this on my own, so I'm looking for help. So far, all I have discovered is that SpamCop can't help. I'm told it is the wrong tool. Fine, so what is the right tool? That's all I want to know. I suspect none of you know either, so I'm wasting my time asking, aren't I?

It's like this, you are posting this in the Help Forum, which is defined as "help with the SpamCop Reporting System" .... the issue you are persuing now is not a "problem with the Reporting System" .... Generic answers have bben offered, to include that your continued use of "joe-job" appears to be in error.

As far as "no one here knows" .. not true, but it is apparent that you are lacking in the knowledge needed to work with the generic suggestions offered thus far. For example, your remark on trying to find an upstream ... so far off the mark ... try going through these Topics for instance;

Explains Upstream

Need help finding an upstream

That you chose to quote Miss Betsy's response but complain about only one premise .. and ignoring her suggestion that you need to decide how much effort you are going to devote to your project .. makes it hard to figure out exactly what you do want. If it's just that you want someone to do all the work for you, might I suggest that you have a talk with your ISP, whom you are already giving your money to. Probably won't get very far, but perhaps you'll feel better blowing off steam at someone a bit more tangilble ..??? SpamCop is just a tool, it has a specific use, it can assist in your research, but there are other tools out there that do other things ... back to looking through the FAQ .. I've added in a number of sites that do other things ... but, this is all getting back to how much time are you going to devote to getting yourself educated to be able to start the battle you're talking about.

There isn't a lot about tracing this stuff down and getting action taken that's easy.

Hint: part of the spammer's game is to make it hard to track then down ....

You have ISPs that aren't up to snuff on knowing how to manage their systems, you have folks running e-mail servers that are not up to snuff because the instructions are too complicated, and you've got the all-too-common user that blew the $3,000 USD on the big power system and cable interface that knew that the little jerk at the store recommending the $35 USD router / firewall was just looking for more profit on the deal .... and this is just general stuff on the "innocents" involved (these days, it's hard to use the word "innocent", but ....)

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I recognise I can't fight this on my own, so I'm looking for help. So far, all I have discovered is that SpamCop can't help. I'm told it is the wrong tool. Fine, so what is the right tool? That's all I want to know. I suspect none of you know either, so I'm wasting my time asking, aren't I?

I have been asking the same question myself. I haven't got an answer I can realistically act on other than delete, which to me is like and ostrich digging head in the sand. But I am patient, maybe someone will come up with a smart idea eventually.

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That you chose to quote Miss Betsy's response but complain about only one premise .. and ignoring her suggestion that you need to decide how much effort you are going to devote to your project .. makes it hard to figure out exactly what you do want. .......might I suggest that you have a talk with your ISP, whom you are already giving your money to. Probably won't get very far,.....

This is a problem that requires persistence and cooperation among people who use email. There are a lot of technical solutions, but they still require cooperation and knowledge among those who run servers.

If you are primarily concerned about the use of your domain name, then you need to get together with other domain owners who feel the same way (a non-profit member organization would be best) and see if you can make a concerted effort to


    make ISPs who still use the bounce after acceptance aware that it is not only annoying as spam to the receivers, but is upsetting to the domain owners.
    make standards for server owners that make it difficult for 'ignorant' people to run servers and thus be open to trojans and other spammer exploits. Some people have suggested licensing along the lines of the licensing of amateur radio operators.
    raise the consciousness of the ordinary end user that there are other ways to deal with spam besides JHD, changing email addresses, and using content filters. Get them to demand rejection at the server from their ISP.
    create your own blocklist and have all your members use it
    advertise that you are doing something about spammers who are criminals

IOW, use some of the technical tools that anti-spam fighters use, but advertise them and use pr to educate the 'innocent/ignorant'

There is a theory called the 'tipping point' when a certain proportion of the population becomes convinced of certain actions - if you can get that 'tipping point' to agree on a particular course of cooperative action, then that becomes the norm. At the moment the norm is that that spam is inevitable and nothing can be done about it is the attitude among most people (because spammers are tricky and slippery and it takes a great deal of time and money to catch them and when you catch them, you may or may not be able to prosecute them and if you do prosecute them, you probably will not recover your costs). However, there are things that can be done. The simplest is to complain and suggest and comment to your own provider that they improve their service. The more complicated I have suggested above. Another thing that you can do is study the technical aspects and become proficient hounding the spammers and the ISPs who allow them to operate ( and has been successful enough that it has driven spammers to use trojans).

How much or how little you can do is up to you. My contribution is to report some spam (particularly 419) and I get a certain amount of satisfaction that they do get shut down - once in a while, I am even the first to report. And to hang out in this forum and try to convince someone who can, to do what I have suggested above. Also I try to be careful about where I go on the Internet and have throwaway accounts for when I use my email address.

You have to decide what you can do.

Miss Betsy

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It's like this, you are posting this in the Help Forum, which is defined as "help with the SpamCop Reporting System" .... the issue you are persuing now is not a "problem with the Reporting System" ....

17863[/snapback]

Yes, I agree, it's a policy issue which really belongs in the Lounge. However, I didn't start this thread.

Generic answers have bben offered, to include that your continued use of "joe-job" appears to be in error.

Really? When? I missed that one. I only started using the term because someone else in this thread suggested I should and pointed me to the definition, which seemed to describe what I am suffering.

As far as "no one here knows" .. not true, but it is apparent that you are lacking in the knowledge needed to work with the generic suggestions offered thus far.  For example, your remark on trying to find an upstream ... so far off the mark ...  try going through these Topics for instance;

Explains Upstream

Need help finding an upstream

I know I'm ignorant of many technical issues. That's why I'm seeking help and guidance on them. I've always assumed the upstream network was a wider network of which the specific ISP's network was a subdivision. Now I understand that's not true and I'll have to research it. Finding UNICOM's upstream provider is probably what I need to do, I suspect.

That you chose to quote Miss Betsy's response but complain about only one premise...

[pedantic point]

Actually, I just didn't bother to delete it. The quoting was automatic.

[/pedantic point]

To be fair, you have probably helped quite a lot, because I now understand there's a lot more I can do, and therefore I will do some more research.

.. and this is just general stuff on the "innocents" involved (these days, it's hard to use the word "innocent", but ....)

Ignorance is an essential characteristic of the innocent. That's what the guilty prey on.

KJP

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