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aweber is banning spamcop users


anewuser
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Actually, the title should have a ? mark at the end, and be

"Is Aweber banning spamcop users?", because I am not 100% sure why this is happening.

A few months ago, I reported a list owner using the Aweber service for spamming via spamcop. I had already requested to be removed from his lists twice (non-aweber), and he continued to mail me, from his aweber account. My email was removed and I heard nothing more.

A few weeks ago, a friend was trying to add me to his mailing list, using aweber. He found that my email address could not be added, that for some reason it was blocked. Given the only real interaction I had with Aweber was this one a few months before, I suspected I was blacklisted.

Now today, as an aweber customer, I am adding a customer list to my database. And it turns out that one of my customers cannot be added either. I suspect they have made a spam complaint against an aweber user at some point, and therefore aweber refuses to add them to their list.

Yes, I will shortly stop using aweber.

But what do you think, that if a user of spamcop submits a spam complaint and they get blacklisted from various services? Quite a disincentive to use spamcop, don't you think?

Does anyone else know anything about this? Can you confirm if Aweber is actually blocking users based on spam complaints?

Edited by anewuser
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http://www.aweber.net/

A place like that could not hurt Spamcop's credibility.

Looks like he quit using aweber.com, I wonder why? could it be: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=aweber.c...&sa=G&scoring=d

As an aside, where did you get your customer list from and why are you adding them? Shouldn't they add themselves? Did they approve of getting on your list via "Confirmed" opt-in?

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Wow! Some numbnuts smacking me about the head and shoulders with these autoresponder/follwup/campaign reminders would definitly end up on my "list" .... "Opt-in added and data captured within 5 seconds", "delivery monitored", and "relationships with major ISPs" .... all added to your description of "I was adding to the list" ... I swear, the only thing missing is the "This is not spam" statement. (No accusations there, just an opinion od what I'm reading in the hype for this outfit's services) I hope none of my clients run across this type of outfit. It would just take to long to describe what's wrong with this approach these days.

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Actually as much as I'm no fan of aweber, its definitely not a spam service. And, autoresponder followupss DONE WELL are extremely useful, they provide an automated way to keep in touch with people after the sale to make sure they're getting everything they need, as well as providing additional information to help them use the product. DONE BADLY, they're horrible, you're right.

My customers bought from me, you'll have to choose to accept that its not spam, probably I wouldn't be posting here if I was a spammer, nor would I be filing spam reports.

Actually Aweber only lets 100 addresses be added per day, so it would not be very useful for sending spam.

I guess you both have answered my question - given the closemindedness of the anti-spam community, a service like them are forced to cut themselves off from properly handling legitimate spam reports. Thats a net loss for everyone, unfortunately.

While I don't like them, they *are* a legit service. If they truly are blacklisting spam complaints, why not figure out why, and open the lines of communication?

This kind of standoff doesn't help anyone.

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http://www.aweber.net/

A place like that could not hurt Spamcop's credibility.

I looked it over. They require confirmed opt-in (and they even correctly state that the term "double opt-in" is a misnomer), provide opt-in links for their users to use on web sites, and state that there is NO way to disable the confirmed nature of the opt-in. This is a good thing.

On the downside, they allow users to input addresses manually.

Looks like he quit using aweber.com, I wonder why?  could it be: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=aweber.c...&sa=G&scoring=d

A few of the links that show up indicate that aweber's been joe-jobbed (domain name forged into mail headers). Those that appear in .sightings are pretty sparse lately.

-A

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Confirmed opt in is not adding to lists manually.

Confirmed opt-in is not adding to a list because of a purchase. Maybe a one timer saying thatks but future emails are definately out of the question if they are trying to sell other products the person has no interest in them and did not request them.

BTW: Scott Richters site says pretty much the same things.

If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and sounds like a duck.................

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Actually as much as I'm no fan of aweber, its definitely not a spam service.

As I stated, no accusations, just opinions based on "heard that song before" sales pitch on their service.

Actually Aweber only lets 100 addresses be added per day, so it would not be very useful for sending spam.

Interesting in that Yahoo played this same song with their Groups stuff, even screwing up the visually handicapped by using the "type in the number that you see in the graphic" crap, and still the spammers march on using that vehicle. And again, that "you" can add in addresses at all kind of flies in the face of any normal definition of opt-in.

I guess you both have answered my question - given the closemindedness of the anti-spam community, a service like them are forced to cut themselves off from properly handling legitimate spam reports.  Thats a net loss for everyone, unfortunately.

I can't make the connection that you seem to be making. You've not made the case that they are not handling spam complaints and your characterization of the anti-spam group being based on "you both" is quite a leap, though not even clear on how you came to that conclusion to begin with.

While I don't like them, they *are* a legit service.  If they truly are blacklisting spam complaints, why not figure out why, and open the lines of communication?

Strange, in that your original concept was that they were locking out complainants, not complaints. A whole different concept and action.

This kind of standoff doesn't help anyone.

What stand-off?

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On the downside, they allow users to input addresses manually.

A few of the links that show up indicate that aweber's been joe-jobbed (domain name forged into mail headers).  Those that appear in .sightings are pretty sparse lately.

-A

18933[/snapback]

Yes but if you read the all the threads you would have found someone as claiming it was a Joe Job and someone else had proof it was not.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=aweber.c...erlin.de&rnum=4

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While I don't like them, they *are* a legit service.  If they truly are blacklisting spam complaints, why not figure out why, and open the lines of communication?

18932[/snapback]

If what you suggest is true, it seems to me like this outfit really aren't tackling the problem of their customers spamming but, instead, list-washing anyone who complains so that they get a quiet life and keep the cash coming in.

It doesn't tackle the root problem but does, I suppose, keep the individual complainants happy.

Andrew

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I guess you both have answered my question - given the closemindedness of the anti-spam community, a service like them are forced to cut themselves off from properly handling legitimate spam reports. Thats a net loss for everyone, unfortunately.

There is no 'closmindedness' of the anti-spam community. In order for spam control to work, it has to be either spam or not spam, confirmed opt-in, or not confirmed, agreed to or not.

From a consumer point of view, although automatic followups to customers sounds like a good idea, it doesn't work online because of spam. The definition of spam is that the consumer has agreed to receive emails. Because of early spammers who took customer lists and started sending all kinds of ads, no customer (who has any smarts) will buy from a place that doesn't assure them on the page where they input their email address that they can check or uncheck a box that says they don't want future mail. (an example is buying a present for someone - I don't want to keep getting ads for tools because I bought my husband and sons a tool for Christmas).

Another 'bad' thing is that if you are added to a list because you bought something and try to unsubscribe, that it takes 30 days.

I will never buy online from Target again because of my experience with them for the above reasons.

I would take this company's listwashing of spamcop reports as being 'closeminded' toward the anti-spam community. There are numerous ways to notify spamcop if someone has made an erroneous report. (and mistakes do happen to the best).

It is not so much that autofollowups are a 'bad' thing. spam has become such a problem that any 'unexpected' email is likely to be deleted - if not reported. Responsible on-line merchants distance themselves from spam tactics - in other words, the customer has to deliberately choose to receive email and thus be expecting it. (Unfortunately, spam is so overwhelming that people who even pay to receive a newsletter will occasionally report or delete it. IMHO, merchants need to take that into account when they conduct business online - sort of like pedestrians can have the right of way, but it doesn't keep them from being killed if they step out in front of a fast moving semi).

My $.02 USD

Miss Betsy

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