Wazoo Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Seems not really, AFTER reading the FAQ. The most interesting part was :Spamcop does not STOP the mail, so what ? The result is just the same... loss of time + money, and I understand nobody cares about MY time + money, that's O.K.. Where can I have the exhaustive list of ISPs blocked ? Though I'll assume that this will be taken as confrontational, I can't help but point out that you must have some kinf of comprehension problem going on ... even the "list of ISPs blocked" makes very little sense if you had actually looked at one or two of even the first FAQ entries .. it sure seems like none of the information provided by many other folks has been understood at this point either. This sure makes it hard to actually 'discuss' anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Where can I have the exhaustive list of ISPs blocked ?25645[/snapback] Nowhere - there is no such list. The SpamCop Blocking List lists IP Addresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petzl Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I would be adviseable to have the live person link on the homepage so people do not have to get frustrated trying to find the information. Most users are not savvy enough to figure any of this out. I am a System Administartor and do not have the time to deal with this. Your webpages are not well laid out and information is difficult to find. 25602[/snapback] If you are ending up on our SpamCop members list, which we (SpamCop email users) use for sorting potential spam email, you have a problem Many ISP's borrow this list to very effectively and accurately protect their user's from Joe Job's, spam virus attacks, etc. by simply bitbinning email although not intended for this. Private users also use many different programs such as MailWasher There are lists created by major providers (i.e. AOL, MSN, etc) which are not public and will just bitbin without any warning. The fact is if you are on SpamCop's SCBL you are most likley getting yourself listed on a major majority of private blacklists, in which you don't know you are on and are very hard to get removed from. (For instance my company operates such secret blacklists as do most) A major concern should be that if you use a static IP (and you do not spam) your computer is a Zombie This means every thing on it is not private Example News story The next possibility is if you are a system administrator you are bombing people with denial of service attacks called a Joe Job if so you immediatly need to adjust your system to modern best practice of today "Postmasters, please limit forgery blow-back" If you have a windows computer go through the links in my signature which are free programs for private users and should get your computer secure If you post the IP concerned here better (IMO the best) advice will be given to you on how to correct your system's problem even if you do operate a marketing system (People here can advise on Best Practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartzkyte Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Nowhere - there is no such list. The SpamCop Blocking List lists IP Addresses. 25653[/snapback] Well, from the "test" my IP is not blocked. But mail does not go through this nuisance. The FAQs are so unintelligible... Let's make a long story short : - my IP is not blocked ; - spamcop does not block ISPs but all mail from laposte.net does not go through (also tested from various other laposte customers, too...) ; - nobody is responsible for anything, as quoted from the FAQs everyone seems to quote here : Q: Why me? A: It Happens to the best of us It is annoying to have your email blocked. It is also annoying to have a backhoe interrupt email service. However, until the blocking problem is resolved, you can email people through a web based email service (the most familiar web based email services are hotmail and yahoo). After you have taken care of the immediate problem of being able to communicate with someone by email, the next step is to see what can be done so this inconvenience does not happen to you again. The one thing you do not want to do is to complain to those correspondents who are using an email service that uses the SpamCop blocklist. They probably really like the reduction in spam! You have the responsibility to see that your ISP provides you with reliable email service. See this link for a longer explanation of costs http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=660 The writer hardly knows what (s)he is talking about... Let's see why :However, until the blocking problem is resolved, you can email people through a web based email service (the most familiar web based email services are hotmail and yahoo).All major web services reject mail coming from hotmail, yahoo (Gmail, etc.) as fakes...You have the responsibility to see that your ISP provides you with reliable email service.SEE THAT my ISP provides me with RELIABLE email ? It IS reliable to everyone BUT spamcop...The one thing you do not want to do is to complain to those correspondents who are using an email service that uses the SpamCop blocklist. They probably really like the reduction in spam!First things first, both people have to KNOW spamcop got into the picture. It only happens AFTER mails are "lost in translation". Actually, they are as embarrassed as we are. Of course, everyone complains to their ISPs, and we look forward to finding solutions. spam everyday is so much better than being illegitimately blocked once. You people will have everyone getting what you fight... everybody will have Gmail accounts, with gigaoctets of spam, because your actions will have blocked legitimate mail accounts. a) who cares, YOU are blocked, we aren't...No, you misunderstand us....your English is very good, but there must be a language barrier (my French is horrible). I'm NOT saying that "you are blocked, but I'm not, and that's OK." What I'm saying is even though such a large email provider's servers are listed on the SC DNSBL, that doesn't mean that the messages must be blocked by anyone, anywhere. It means that the receiving ISP's have made the bad choice of rejecting mail based on the BL listing, rather than the good choice of simply using the BL to filter/tag mail as it comes through their servers. May sound strange, but I got you. My point is that still, the result is the same for me... keep looking for ISPs not getting their mail through spamcop-like BLs, because nobody is going to help...No, not necessarily. We could help you get enough information to help even your current ISP understand that what they are doing is a bad idea, so cooperate with us by exchanging information with us specific to your situation and we will try to help you.Explain things by myself to an ISP ? You must be kidding...From your messages, it does not appear that you truly understand the function of blacklist/blocklist listings and what the ISP's are doing with them. You seem to think that SpamCop is somehow doing some blocking....mais, ce n'est pas vrais !Back to a)... the way it works is irrelevant, and I do regret not having the time & money to see potential class action in this field. I may be French and not have a good enough English to understand all the FAQs crap, I still see a very clear point : due to spamcop listing, actual business and personal mail are considered by several mail servers as spam. And I do feel, as we are in this lounge now, that spamcop should be sued for business interference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 And I do feel, as we are in this lounge now, that spamcop should be sued for business interference... Nonsense. If I don't want to receive spam, I don't have to receive emails from IP addresses where spam comes from. If you, the business, wants to contact me, you can do so in a number of different ways - which I may, or may not, accept or reply to. If you, the business, insist that I receive emails from an IP address that also sends spam, I don't think much of your attitude - much less your business acumen. It is not good business to tell the customer that he is wrong. Miss Betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartzkyte Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Nonsense. If I don't want to receive spam, I don't have to receive emails from IP addresses where spam comes from. If you, the business, wants to contact me, you can do so in a number of different ways - which I may, or may not, accept or reply to. If you, the business, insist that I receive emails from an IP address that also sends spam, I don't think much of your attitude - much less your business acumen. It is not good business to tell the customer that he is wrong. Miss Betsy 25661[/snapback] Sorry to say this is an extremely stupid answer -like the whole spamcop thing, of course. Disregard myself as SMTP sender - I fortunately happen to have several ISP, as this is part of my business as an IT specialist. As of now, there are some 20 million mail accounts in France, and laposte.net represents 4 million accounts. Chances are, one day a week spamcop will block legit mail to me. Of course I insist on receiving mail from my clients, associates and friends. With potential spam too, who cares ? Like anybody else, I can protect myself easily from spam without spamcop. It is not good business to tell the customer that he is wrong.Too bad, you are exactly suggesting I tell my customers they are wrong to use laposte.net. (for your records, laposte was elected #1 email provider by ZDnet). Would that be "good business" manners ? It is so unreal to see all of you, so afraid of the world I wonder whether you dare walking or driving outside. 0 risk, 0 life... I think I've got the message, without "language barrier" : the spamcop fans agree to badger and annoy the whole world, provided their own little lifes are spam-free -and soon e-mail-free. Too bad they got access to the Internet. P.S. some Google research showed me I was not the only one aggravated by your nuisance. I hope someone will stop this nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 So let me get this straight, you advocate using blacklists and whitelists for your own email, but you balk at asking your correspondents who use the SCBL as a blacklist to put you on their whitelists? That's exceedingly hypocritical behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petzl Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Sorry to say this is an extremely stupid answer -like the whole spamcop thing, of course. Disregard myself as SMTP sender - I fortunately happen to have several ISP, as this is part of my business as an IT specialist. As of now, there are some 20 million mail accounts in France, and laposte.net represents 4 million accounts. P.S. some Google research showed me I was not the only one aggravated by your nuisance. I hope someone will stop this nonsense. 25664[/snapback] Losing services to GOOD email providers are we? As to your statistics fitting catagory of lies damn lies then there are statistics For instance I don't know why my present provider as do all providers stick one with a compulsory email address? I and a great many like me, just don't want and won't bother using! So your 20 million of French spam targets means??? My list of partners also do not use the email account their ISP sticks them with either I wouldn't be interested in using your server if you also did not effectively and accurately protect me from spam as SpamCop Email Service does Wonder how many other paying customers feel this way. I do not use any Australian providers for a trusted and reliable email account. I just use and pay for SpamCop email account. (I'm in Sydney Australia) Many of which also have infomercials on TV or magazines all proved to me to be worse than usless. My business relies on my receiving email without overdoses of spam and or losing email to do so would cost me my livelihood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Chances are, one day a week spamcop will block legit mail to me. This line alone renders the rest of your rant simply absurd. And this after allegedly reading some FAQ data, after all the dialog thus far within this (and other Topic/discussions) .... sorry, back to some problem with comprehension ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidT Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Chances are, one day a week spamcop will block legit mail to me. You are truly NOT paying attention....let me say it once again: SpamCop does NOT block anything! Perhaps I should have one of my French friends explain this to you in your own language? DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenUnderwood Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Chances are, one day a week spamcop will block legit mail to me. If your ISP does not use the spamcop BL, there is no way spamcop can affect your incoming email. Spamcop has no authority to touch your email unless you hire them to do that function. If your ISP decides to use the spamcop blocklist because it saves them money by not accepting 61.4% of the messages coming into their network (that number is from my domain at work) and you do not like that, it is up to you to let them know and to change providers if you are so inclined. It is ther network and that is their business decision. They need to weigh the benefits of reducing spam in that way to the costs of losing some business. Many businesses pay a metered charge for email so any chance to reduce the junk hitting their internet connection is welcomed. My company uses another company, Postini, to accept our corporate email, classify it, and hold the spam and viruses for us. We then have the opportunity to san the held messages or simply let them be deleted in 2 weeks (which most people do). That 61.4% of the messages saved my company enough on our metered T1 that it nearly paid for Postini's services. The reduction in support calls about all the spam people were getting was a bonus. Spamcop's email service also does no blocking for their customers, only redirecting them to a Held Mail folder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartzkyte Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 So let me get this straight, you advocate using blacklists and whitelists for your own email, but you balk at asking your correspondents who use the SCBL as a blacklist to put you on their whitelists? That's exceedingly hypocritical behavior. 25668[/snapback] You are probably more intelligent than your reply : MY lists do not block anyone legit... You are truly NOT paying attention....let me say it once again: SpamCop does NOT block anything! Perhaps I should have one of my French friends explain this to you in your own language? DT 25673[/snapback] Instead of barking, perhaps you should learn to read your own language ? Whether spamcops does the action of blocking or not is irrelevant. Spamcop publishes lists of good and bad guys, and disclaims responsibility for the usage made of that list... Last time someone did that, his name was Adolf Hitler. If your ISP decides to use the spamcop blocklist because it saves them money by not accepting 61.4% of the messages coming into their network (that number is from my domain at work) and you do not like that, it is up to you to let them know and to change providers if you are so inclined. It is ther network and that is their business decision. They need to weigh the benefits of reducing spam in that way to the costs of losing some business.Exactly what I did not want to get into, but seems the only solution : when your legit and on the receiving side, flee away from spamcop... Many businesses pay a metered charge for email so any chance to reduce the junk hitting their internet connection is welcomed. My company uses another company, Postini, to accept our corporate email, classify it, and hold the spam and viruses for us. We then have the opportunity to san the held messages or simply let them be deleted in 2 weeks (which most people do). That 61.4% of the messages saved my company enough on our metered T1 that it nearly paid for Postini's services. The reduction in support calls about all the spam people were getting was a bonus.25678[/snapback] Postini is totally different : you can decide to accept of reject a sender and will not tell anyone that X or Y is blacklisted or whitelisted with you. It's no fascist listing... and compares to the personal white lists/black lists I use, and do not spread out. And a mistake can be repaired... Nothing to do with the system used here... Spamcop's email service also does no blocking for their customers, only redirecting them to a Held Mail folder. 25678[/snapback] OK, how do I get the mail that did not relay from laposte.net to my swiss web host and back to me ? Who holds it ? Where ? My web hosts told me they did not. Laposte, like most ISPs, does not answer any complaint. How do I know how many customers I keep losing with spamcop's help ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Although this is the Lounge area, there are limits. You are pushing really hard. You've asked questions and received answers. You've espoused your position and folks have attempted to explain that your facts are wrong. You've made invalid statements that others have attempted to correct. Now you complain about your "famous, greatest" ISP that doesn't answer user questions, yet want to make very strange comparisons based on your wrongly defined perceptions. Please get down to actually making some sense from your side of your debate (?) .... else I will come up with another way to handle this alleged discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 MY lists do not block anyone legit... How do you know? There is no content filter that I have ever heard of that doesn't make a mistake. When it does, then are you sure you have found that legit email? The advantage to blocklists is that the email is returned to the sender who can then correct the problem. Laposte, like most ISPs, does not answer any complaint. You are ranting and raving about spamcop and you accept that ISPs do not have to answer complaints? Now that is a lot more like the 'police state' you think exists with blocklists. Blocklists do not force anyone to do anything. If I don't answer my phone, you cannot make me do so. You also cannot make me accept any package that you bring to my door. And you cannot make me accept any email (at my cost). Just because your ISP won't answer complaints, then you try to bully spamcop. If you need to use Laposte for connectivity, but they are lousy email service providers, then perhaps you need to change email service providers. Miss Betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidT Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Whether spamcops does the action of blocking or not is irrelevant. No, it's not irrelevant...I'll show you in a moment (but, of course, you won't listen). Spamcop publishes lists of good and bad guys, and disclaims responsibility for the usage made of that list... You are incorrect once more. There's no "good" list, only a "bad" one. Now, here is some text from the SpamCop.net website regarding the BL: SpamCop encourages SCBL users to tag and divert email, rather than block it outright. That's exactly what I've been telling you, but you'll never listen. Here's more: The SCBL is aggressive and often errs on the side of blocking mail. When implementing the SCBL, provide users with the information about how the SCBL and your mail system filter their email. Ideally, they should have a choice of filtering options. Many mailservers operate with blacklists in a "tag only" mode, which is preferable in many situations. Again, this agrees with me, so I'm right, and you're full of.....merd! Last time someone did that, his name was Adolf Hitler. Good-bye. You're obviously not worth "barking" at any more. DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartzkyte Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 How do you know? There is no content filter that I have ever heard of that doesn't make a mistake. When it does, then are you sure you have found that legit email? Of course. All mail are reviewed before trash or changing status, which is normal.You are ranting and raving about spamcop and you accept that ISPs do not have to answer complaints?I do not like it, but laposte is another victim of spamcop...Blocklists do not force anyone to do anything. If I don't answer my phone, you cannot make me do so.As you do not understand or pretend to, let me compare as you seem to understand phone better thant internet. I am AT&T (Sprint, whatever, just for the example). I relay calls between Bell Atlantic and Pacific Bell. You are with Bell Atlantic. Your friend with Pacific Bell (mother, business associate, etc.) is trying to call you but I, AT&T, decide that as your number is on a blocking list, you will not receive the call and not be notified. You are expecting the call, and first things first, you believe your party forgot to call you. When finally you are reached at another number, you call Bell Atlantic. And they tell you : sorry, someone called spamcop published a listing where your friend's (mother, business associate, etc.) number was cited as illegitimate. And this listing is used by AT&T who won't allow relay for people on the list. What do you do next ? Sue the publisher of the listing makes more sense than suing Bell Atlantic. Just because your ISP won't answer complaints, then you try to bully spamcop. If you need to use Laposte for connectivity, but they are lousy email service providers, then perhaps you need to change email service providers.It's a bit tiring to repeat things to people who do not read you and pretend you do not read them, but let's try once more... I want to RECEIVE MAIL from laposte customers. I can get by for my outgoing mail - with prejudice due to spamcop's listings, of course, but anyway all my sites have mail() functions that can be redirected. provided nobody using laposte.net tries to send me mail. Thanks again, folks... I'll be able to show around what a new version of totalitarism makes by simply publishing a list and denying responsibility. I now understand the reason for strange nicknames appearing next to spamcop when looking a little bit around the net... Now, I have to get back to work -partly, working around your nuisance and won't get back here soon. You can contact me by mail if you wish. You can't reach my laposte mail ? Too bad, contact your provider, your ISP, laposte or whoever you want but spamcop - they do not endorse responsibility for what they publish or any of their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidT Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 ...and won't get back here soon. Here's hoping that he really means it...but, alas, he will probably be back, just as mis-informed as at present. DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Given the invocation of Godwin, I propose closing the Topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 My thought last night, but figured that the Godwin invocation would also be above comprehension <g> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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