Question for knowledgeable members

[theiss]

I've been reading the forums for a little while now, and have been amazed at the knowledge all of you possess on email and spam. I am just curious to know if this is from experience, or does anyone have a formal education where you learned most of this? Forgive me for asking such a personal (and maybe stupid) question, but I am currently attending college online to get a Bachelor of Science in IT. I've only been in school for 3 months now, so I'm still working on my Associates degree. I wanted to know if this subject is something I might be learning when that time comes. Thanks!

[StevenUnderwood]

I've been reading the forums for a little while now, and have been amazed at the knowledge all of you possess on email and spam.  I am just curious to know if this is from experience, or does anyone have a formal education where you learned most of this? Forgive me for asking such a personal (and maybe stupid) question, but I am currently attending college online to get a Bachelor of Science in IT. I've only been in school for 3 months now, so I'm still working on my Associates degree.  I wanted to know if this subject is something I might be learning when that time comes.  Thanks!

30026[/snapback]

Most of my computer skills were learned "by doing". I do have a BSEE but computers were always a big draw of my attention.

[turetzsr]

I've been reading the forums for a little while now, and have been amazed at the knowledge all of you possess on email and spam.

30026[/snapback]

...So am I (of others' knowledge, that is)! <g>

I am just curious to know if this is from experience, or does anyone have a formal education where you learned most of this?

<snip>

30026[/snapback]

...Almost all of my knowledge has come from reading these fora and, before their existence, the SpamCop newsgroups.

[Wazoo]

Perhaps boring to some, but .. you asked ... zillions of years ago, I was trained to be one of the world's best electronic technicians ... an equivalent of a 4.5 year college degree program compressed into something like 53 weeks (of course dropping all that other stuff that wasn't electronic <g>) ... this was back when one could troubleshoot to the piece-part / component and actually find a replcement part ... I tried an excuse of "but I wasn't trained on that" once on my first job .. my supervisor set me straight rather quickly ... "black box it! .. signal comes in here, goes out there .. your job, find out why that ain't happening! Bring me the completed work order when you're done." So we take that forward a few years, (copied from a newsgroup post I recently made);

At present, I'm not smart enough to say whether it's the BBCode

stuff or the mystical conversion processes that have got me dazed.

I'm still learning, likening this a bit to the day I got to start learning

Fortran.  At a new assignment for less than two weeks.

"You run the electronics shop?"

yes

"Computers are made with electronic circuits, aren't they?"

yes

"Got one out here that needs fixing.  Call me when it's up again."

(some numbers are probably wrong here, it's been ages)

Look at a customized Data General S-280

ask an operator to show me how to log on

operator shows me the problem situation

go through some S-280 manuals to figure out how it works

eventually figure out how to log on as 'root'/supervisor/whatever

eventually find the source files .. even neater, I find the

bad section of code

realize fixing it is over my head, recall that there was a

"programmer" in the TDA for the site, start trying to find

him .. turns out that the guy was a budget analyst, filling the

"programmer" slot .. there is no "programmer"

in my searches, found some Rolm documentation on the

Fortran language (let's say version 1.7)

Data General is running version 1.5

many hours spent at re-writing code (eventually figuring out

that all those indents weren't just for looks ... data started

so many characters in, commands started so many spaces in,

etc.)  Then figuring out the compiler command (flags) that were

in the Rolm 1.7 version that didn't fly in the DG 1.5 version ...

late that night, system is up and running

LTCDR is unhappy that I called him at that hour .... however, ..

Navy Captain sends MP's to my door to escort me back to

the office .. turns out the code section I re-worked contained

classified data above my clearance level ... much paperwork

ensued <g>

That's how I got my "computer" training .. always in the wrong spot at the wrong time <g> On the other hand, I've had the opporunity to work on just about every type of computer and Operating System that's ever been "out there" ....

Locksmithing was picked up the same way ...

an Aloha Friday in Hawaii, Monday was a holiday ... "smart" folks had found an appropriate excuse to leave early ... I was taking advantage of the calm to catch-up

An analyst calls me up, wants me to come up to the vault and give him the security double-checks on the safes, file-cabinets, and vault door. Everything was going fine until he gave the vault door tumber the massive spin to allow it to stop on some random number ... the dial flew off the door, bounced out the next door, and came to rest a few feet down the hallway. We're the last two people on that floor, sent him down to the Security office, he came back to advise that they were one. Tracked down one of those folks at the NCO club, turns out he'd been there for hours ... eventually he offered that an 'approved' locksmith might be able to make it in around 1900 or so, but not 100% sure about that. That left "us" with the quandry of having to have someone "cleared" guarding that vault door until the lock could be put back in place (reminding you all of the 3-day week-end involved here <g>)

Let's just say that the next Tuesday morning was 'interesting' .... the number of folks interested in how Dave and I managed to get inside of a steel enclosed vault, take the lock apart, repair it, set a new combination, and then leave to enjoy our long week-end.

Then expanded that by being given some 'new' "secure" type filing cabinets, picked up at a redistribution point. The 'joke' was that I had been given those that either had no keys or the key had been snapped off in the lock during storage/handling. That I and my guys had them opened up in a few minutes, replaced the lock assemblies from the cabinets we were getting rid of ... had my office flowing with filing cabinets for a while, as those folks had then made another trip and picked up the cabinets that they had left behind on their first trip (due to those missing/broken keys) ...

Automobiles / Motorcycles / lawnmowers / etc. ... being a poor enlisted soldier (and now an even poorer / divorced retired enlisted soldier <g>) I never had the luxury of dropping my stuff off for the professionals to fix.

Obviously taking up too much time/space here .. will stop ,,,

[GraemeL]

Locksmithing was picked up the same way ...

30034[/snapback]

Have you read "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!"? There is a whole section on Feynman picking locks at Los Alamos during the Manhattan Project.

[Miss Betsy]

<snip>

Automobiles / Motorcycles / lawnmowers / etc. ... being a poor enlisted soldier (and now an even poorer / divorced retired enlisted soldier <g>) I never had the luxury of dropping my stuff off for the professionals to fix.

Obviously taking up too much time/space here .. will stop ,,,

30034[/snapback]

Doesn't have much to do with being 'poor' - though that sharpens some wits. Some people just delve in (some say 'fools rush in where angels fear to tread'), but I am continually amazed at the number of people who won't try to apply experience and 'background' knowledge to a new task!

Wazoo, You are one in a million! (too bad your ex-wife didn't appreciate it!)

Miss Betsy

[Wazoo]

Have you read "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!"? There is a whole section on Feynman picking locks at Los Alamos during the Manhattan Project.

30036[/snapback]

No, but the reviews do look interesting.

Interestingly enough, an old drummer friend dropped by (way, way back in those glory years <g>) .. reminded my that I'd started this long before .. way back as the Senior Patrol Leader in Boy Scouts ... he reminded me of the day I picked the lock on the (troop sponsoring) church so that we could get the supplies out for the camping trip .... imagine the trouble I could get into doing something like that these days <g>

Doesn't have much to do with being 'poor' - though that sharpens some wits.  Some people just delve in (some say 'fools rush in where angels fear to tread'),

I'll stick with my 'circumstances' <g> ... made a 'great' deal on a 69 Ford LTD Country Squire station wagon while in Germany. G60-15's on mags in the back, air shocks, 390 High performance engine ... tuns out the "great deal" had some downside ... gas prices for instance ... running down the autobahn, tire-track was wider than the worn-in grooves, coupled with those super-wide tires, solved by changing the rear-end gears so I could cruise at 120+ miles/hour, such that I rarely had to get out of the passing lane <g> (imagine bringing it back to the states and trying to deal with the 55 mph speed limit, struggling to find a way to get it to shift into high gear <g>) ... driving though Rothenburg, scraping door handles on both sides of the car after choosing to turn down the wrong road .... the trip to Italy, where burning "regular" gas managed to turn the porcelain on the spark plugs back to sand (locals wouldn't even put that stuff into their lawnmowers) ... God, I loved that car <g>

picked up a basketcase motorcycle, figuring that would be a bit cheaper to run ... oops! .. 72 500cc H1 Kawasaki 2-stroke triple cylinder ... let's just say that by the time I was done with it, 10.86 seconds on a quarter-mile with an extended swing-arm and slick ... 12.21 configured for the street ... 4.6 gallons of gas would get maybe 65 miles (if I coasted a lot <g>) ... oh to be young and invicible again! ...

anyway, being in Germany, neither vehicle offered "local" support. Only 3 of those bikes had been sold in Germany, 7 in Italy (something to do with gas mileage <g>) .. so parts had to come from an outfit in California or Japan ... Ford-Europe had no reason to carry parts, train their mechs on Ford-USA stuff ...

real-life continued from there <g>

Got a "free" 74 pick-up to move under its own power yesterday ... well, had to use the battery out of the 73, gas siphoned from an 80 Dodge van. tire borrowed from across the street, but by golly, the grass is now mowed! <g> ... now to replace a freeze plug, fix the brakes, figure out how to mount & wire some tail-lights .. I might have a vehicle that can get me out of town <g> The maintenance issue on these boils down to "we crushed that old crap years ago" ....

but I am continually amazed at the number of people who won't try to apply experience and 'background' knowledge to a new task!

Yep, I call that "the kernal of knowledge" ... some folks seem to have allowed theirs to grow a hard shell and packaged it up for some reason ... my Dad would be perfectly happy to work on his own vehicles .... if they were 1963 Plymouth Fury's <g> ... these newer models with wires, hoses, and dare we say "computers" just have him baffled.

Wazoo, You are one in a million!  (too bad your ex-wife didn't appreciate it!)

30037[/snapback]

Let me be the first to jump in and say "I have my faults" <g> During one of those tender moments / discussions, I believe my dearly beloved's words sounded more like "I put up with it for all these years" ... but I'm a guy, I might have misinterpreted it <g> I can remember pointing out that I had made it a point to always remind her that "I loved her" at least twice a day, just to make sure that whatever happened, she'd have heard those words last. She agreed with that, but then asked me when the last time I had heard her say those same words to me. I honestly had no idea. I mean, she'd married me 20+ years prior, wasn't it obvious? Yes, I've learned a lot since then <g>

man, this got way off-topic, huh?

Yes, there ought to be a college course for this stuff! <g>

[Jeff G.]

I've been working with computers since the late 70's, learned to touch-type in '79, worked with the first and later home and SOHO: programmable calculators; modems; printers; computers (Apple ][s, ///s, and Macs; Radio Shack TRS-80's; Pascal MicroEngines; IBM PCs, RS/6000s, AS/400s, and Mainframes; Compaq, HP, Dell, and other compatible PCs and Servers); Operating Systems (CP/M, MP/M, Apple DOS, TRSDOS, Unix, MS-DOS, Windows, MAC OS, AIX, Linux, and Novell NetWare), Languages, and many Applications and Application Suites. I made my first post to usenet in '85, attended and self-taught a number of Novell courses in '90-'96, earned a BS in Business Administration in '92, learned to read headers and started seriously fighting spam in '94-5, became a Certified Novell Engineer in '96, first posted to nanam (precursor to nanae) in '96, trained under Margie as a MAPS Volunteer Network Abuse Reporter, attended the PSINet (now Cogent Communications) Internet Integration Partner Program Technical Training at PSINet Headquarters in '99, became a SpamCop User in '99, became a SpamCop Email System (formerly SpamCop Mail Service) Customer when the SpamCop Mail Service was in beta testing (early in 2002), became the first SpamCop Forums Moderator in early 2004, and have managed and helped manage systems of hundreds of servers serving over ten thousand people. Since becoming a SpamCop Email System Customer, I have used SpamCop to report over 509,385 spam emails. More opportunities to use my talents welcome.

See also http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...indpost&p=28364

[shmengie]

I have an associate degree in "data processing." Since that degree focused primairly on COBOL programming back in the late 80's I'd guess no chance of learning the intracacies of the internet there. However, I was a lab-tech in my college, which afforded me extra computer time and tinkering around with Unix.

The Internet's childhood was spent mostly on Unix. The three letter word www caused an Internet explosion, but there's still a lot that can be learnd about the internet from Unix or it's modern day clone: Linux.

I can't imagine what learning computer stuffs is like these days, there's soo much to take in. Being a computer enthusiast since about 1980, I've had the opportunity to slowly soak in all that I have.

I recommend getting started with Linux ASAP... Also, learn to type w/out looking at the keyboard!

[theiss]

Sooo, I'll hazard a "guess" and say most of you have learned through experience. Anyway, thanks for all of your responses.

Wazoo, you had me rolling on the floor. Thanks for the history and the laughs!

I recommend getting started with Linux ASAP...  Also, learn to type w/out looking at the keyboard!

30051[/snapback]

Shmengie - I've known how to type without looking since I was about 10 (34 now), so no problem there. Thanks again!!

[Jank1887]

I've known how to type without looking since I was about 10 (34 now), so no problem there.     Thanks again!!

30055[/snapback]

I finally learned to stop looking last year when I switched to a Dvorak key layout. Can't look when the letters don't match what's written on the keyboard! And I can now type about the same speed on either (45wpm qwerty, 53wpm Dvo) with less errors on Dvo.

<plug> Save your wrists! switch to Dvorak </plug>

"Wasted" my childhood on a C-128 (man, that unused extra 64K sure made the difference). got a PC in highschool ('93). Internet before I graduated. College as the net was going mainstream. (they still had typewriters in the computer labs, and a lot of people still used them.) As an engineer I really liked to tinker, so I played around a lot on the net. Taught myself HTML and made a small crappy webpage which rendered me the 'local expert' (oohh look, blinking text!).

Didn't get into spam until my girlfriend had to give up her Juno account because of all the porn spam she was getting. Stumbled into Spamcop and got most of my education here. (here being spamcop, both newsgroups and forum).