Richard Hole Posted August 17, 2005 Author Share Posted August 17, 2005 Hi, Thanks for your letters. Someone indicated that the easiest way to report spam was to go into my web based email and forward as an attachment the spam email that I received to the email address I was issued with to report spam to. But would it be safer not to do this and instead paste it into the window on the form at http://members.spamcop.net where there are some prompts and safeguards? The closest FAQ page to the topic that Wazoo mentioned that I could find was at http://members.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/290.html It contains links to pages with rather technical information. I am sorry I am not too knowledgeable on these matters and I know a lot of people who are often on the Internet who are a lot less knowledgeable than me on them. Jeff mentioned to email Don if I wanted to change the email address that I report spam to because it may be put on spam lists. Do you know his email address or could someone change the address that I report spam to and delete the old one just in case someone is sending spam to it. Also what would happen if someone did get that address that I accidentally submitted to the forum and send spam to it? Could it cause me any harm such as by causing some servers to block emails sent from my domain in future? I was just wondering if I should check any blacklists to make sure my IP is not on it because I need reliable email transmission to any server. I think you organization is doing a good cause. However, you need to make it simpler for people who are not to knowledgeable about servers. I have some very simple instructions on my website explaining how people should send me email and what subject to use. However, many people do not even follow these simple instructions and don’t read or answer my questions. I am concerned if I refer anyone to your organization that they may fail to understand what to do properly and as a result they may accidentally report their own IP address so that servers get the impression that they are sending the spam. To avoid any risk to new people who join, you could get some volunteers in your organization to check that new members have signed up properly before they can do any submissions. Perhaps the volunteers could do the submissions for them to avoid any risks. In my case most of the spam I receive comes from Yahoo addresses and has similar messages. I have a number of email addresses on the one domain and often get identical messages on the different addresses. Therefore most of the spam I receive may only come from one company so if someone could help me report just one of the spam emails it may solve the problem and save us reporting others. When I joined I thought it would just be a simple matter of signing in and copying and pasting the email headers or the spam email that I receive into the submission window and then sending it without any risk or doing anything else. During the sign in process I was not prompted to the “mailhost configuration process”. However, would I be prompted do all this after I press the “Process spam” button at http://members.spamcop.net/? Sorry to take up so much of your time. I just got very concerned at the risks that were mentioned in some of the posts. I thought the easiest and way to sort this out and save you time would be if I could phone someone who could talk me through the steps as I do the submission process. Is there anyone I could ring and what is their number. I am in Australia but can also ring overseas. I also saw an interesting Four Corners program two days ago about credit card detail and identity theft. Your help is appreciated, Regards Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I'm getting tired .... Two links at the top of each page "here" ... one opens up in a new browser window, one moves the browser to a new page ... both links are spelled "SpamCop FAQ" ..... both link to http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2238 Once "there" .. one can use the recently added "jump" links or scroll down to the Blocking List section ... titled (in bold) SpamCop Blocking List Service Under that is an item titled: What is on the list? which takes you to an explanation of the mathmatical model used for listing/de-listing .... (this based on doing the work needed to identify the FAQ entry posted that went to a "members" page ... then converting that to a 'plain' link so I could see just what FAQ was referenced ..) I've pointed to the How to use .... forum sections a number of times, pointed to specific entries including various web-mail applications/servers, OE6 and even a generic walk-through ... I'm at a loss as to what demons you seem to be fighting. Basically, all I'm seeing is you continuing to post that you are having some issues, then repeating the same words in your next post, then repeating the same words in your next post ..... Someone indicated that the easiest way to report spam was to go into my web based email and forward as an attachment Yet, you're the one that said that this was not an option ... his email address ....... I should check any blacklists to make sure my IP is not on it Yet again, FAQ entries During the sign in process I was not prompted to the “mailhost configuration process”. Yet, you're the one that said you started that configuration process ....???? then sending it without any risk or doing anything else. Once again, a FAQ entry .. Rules, What is this ..., How to use .... where did you get the idea of no responsibilty, never mind that it's been pointed out repeatedly just in this discussion? Beyond the repeated ponters to the FAQ, have you even looked at any of the thousands of other posts in this Forum structure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farelf Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Back to the beginning. Start with using the web-page paste-your-spam-in-the-box entry form at your logged-in http://www.spamcop.net web page. <snip> Once all the "bugs" are worked out of that process, then start 'playing' with the e-mail submittal issue. 31715[/snapback] Richard, You seem to be tying yourself in knots. Information overload? Wazoo's was sound advice. If you just work through it, you will, I am sure, quickly get into the swing of it and progress to whatever level of spam fighting you find appropriate, without risk to yourself or innocent parties. You're a webmaster? If you can handle that you will have no trouble with SpamCop reporting, just take it one step at a time (there is a substantial learning process involved). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hole Posted August 17, 2005 Author Share Posted August 17, 2005 Hi, I read the page you mentioned and read a lot of the FAQ on the main FAQ page before. I read about SCBL. However I am still not sure if it is a list of IP addresses of the people sending the spam or if it a list of the IP addresses of the good guys that are reporting the spam. The problem is I have not had a lot of experience with servers and that terminology and I am sorry I cannot afford to spend days to study the terms and all the pages which have an enormous number of links. A lot of the information is so hard to understand for someone new. Even if they read it all they would not be able to understand much of it. I am not sure what is the best way to go. It seems as if to be able to use this tool to report spam you need to be very knowledgeable about the information. I don’t want to put myself at risk of having my IP address or email address blacklisted on any servers because email is a very important communication tool for me. I was just hoping to have a service or organization to report any spam that I receive to, by simply forwarding them the spam message or header without any risk to me or my service providers. Do you know who would provide such a service for people who are not that knowlegable about configuring mail servers? A lot of people would like to report spam but are not very knowledgeable so if we could find or start a simple system more people would be interested and more spam would be stopped. I would still be interested in using this service if it is made simpler or if I could ring up someone to talk me through the set up process. I am sorry that I do not know more but I am extremely busy focusing on other things and cannot spend days to learn all these new things at the moment. One thing I would urgently like an answer to is this. Jeff mentioned to email Don if I wanted to change the email address that I report spam to because it may be put on spam lists. Do you know his email address or could someone change the address that I report spam to and delete the old one just in case someone is sending spam to it. Also, what would happen if someone did get that address that I accidentally submitted to the forum and send spam to it? Could it cause me any harm such as by causing some servers to block emails sent from my domain in future? I was just wondering if I should check any blacklists to make sure my IP is not on it because I need reliable email transmission to any server. Your help is appreciated, Regards Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farelf Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 <snip> One thing I would urgently like an answer to is this. Jeff mentioned to email Don if I wanted to change the email address that I report spam to because it may be put on spam lists. Do you know his email address or could someone change the address that I report spam to and delete the old one just in case someone is sending spam to it. 31735[/snapback] Richard, Yes, probably is an idea to change a compromised submission address (real risk is someone could hijack your reporting). Last I heard, Don's address was: service <at> admin.spamcop.net (just remove internal spaces etc. to transform to an address) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hole Posted August 17, 2005 Author Share Posted August 17, 2005 Hi, Thanks for your letter. What would happen if someone “Hijacked my reporting” Could it cause me any harm such as by causing some servers to block emails sent from my truesolutions.info domain in future? Your help is appreciated, Regards Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farelf Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 <snip>What would happen if someone “Hijacked my reporting”<snip> 31737[/snapback] Richard, Well, they could submit bogus reports that would get your SpamCop reporting privilages suspended by making you look like a bent reporter, they could do worse things, which I prefer not to go into (little devils get enough ideas of their own). Potential is limited only by imagination, but most anything that might be done would be quite short-term, I should think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 What would happen if someone “Hijacked my reporting” Could it cause me any harm such as by causing some servers to block emails sent from my truesolutions.info domain in future?31737[/snapback] No, but it could get your reporting account in trouble, and others could use your fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hole Posted August 17, 2005 Author Share Posted August 17, 2005 Hi, Thanks for your letter. I wrote to Don about the email address. I am not sure whether to go ahead with using this service because I am not too knowledgeable about configuring mail servers. If you know any better ways for me to go as asked in the earlier question on the forum please let me know. Your help is appreciated, Regards Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I read the page you mentioned and read a lot of the FAQ on the main FAQ page before. I read about SCBL. However I am still not sure if it is a list of IP addresses of the people sending the spam or if it a list of the IP addresses of the good guys that are reporting the spam. Get specific. Take the What's on the list FAQ entry and please explain how you can not determine that it is reported spew source IP addresses that are being discussed. The problem is I have not had a lot of experience with servers and that terminology and I am sorry I cannot afford to spend days to study the terms and all the pages which have an enormous number of links. And the alternate to that is that there's been a ton-load of manhours expended into writing up all those FAQ entries with the intent of not having to go round and round and round. That you don't "have the time" to look something up doesn't balance against your willingness to take so much time from so many others to repeat what's already existing, what's already been said/typed up, etc. It's funny, I look at all the posts here, I see you repeating your questions over and over, getting the same answers again and again, but I'm having a hard time seeing where you've actually answered questions asked of you. A lot of the information is so hard to understand for someone new. Even if they read it all they would not be able to understand much of it. I am not sure what is the best way to go. It seems as if to be able to use this tool to report spam you need to be very knowledgeable about the information. The "best" way to go is to learn how to use the tool. One step at a time. Not going to repeat that set of steps for thr third/fourth time. I don’t want to put myself at risk of having my IP address or email address blacklisted on any servers because email is a very important communication tool for me. For seemingly the millionth time, the SpamCopDNSBL doesn't give a damn what your e-mail address is. "Your" IP address woud only get listed if it met the math involved in the repeatedly pointed to FAQ entry. And afain for the millionth time, you are the one that would hit the Send: button on any reports going out .. per the rules and agreements made when you registered your account, you agreed that you are the responsible party. I was just hoping to have a service or organization to report any spam that I receive to, by simply forwarding them the spam message or header without any risk to me or my service providers. Do you know who would provide such a service for people who are not that knowlegable about configuring mail servers? There are thousands of reporters submitting their spam here on a daily basis that have no idea of how to manage a mail server, set up a web page, fix a computer ... I would still be interested in using this service if it is made simpler or if I could ring up someone to talk me through the set up process. I am sorry that I do not know more but I am extremely busy focusing on other things and cannot spend days to learn all these new things at the moment. I'll think of you while I spend my (volunteer) time continuing to add to the FAQ, whack on the code of this Forum application, answer other queries, on top of trying to live my own life. Again, all that previously spent/wasted time was to place the data where someone like you could look it up. One thing I would urgently like an answer to is this. Jeff mentioned to email Don if I wanted to change the email address that I report spam to because it may be put on spam lists. Do you know his email address As stated several times - this is a FAQ entry. Also, what would happen if someone did get that address that I accidentally submitted to the forum and send spam to it? Could it cause me any harm such as by causing some servers to block emails sent from my domain in future? I was just wondering if I should check any blacklists to make sure my IP is not on it because I need reliable email transmission to any server. 31735[/snapback] Let your imagination run wild. You've offered "your" identity to the public. If someone wants to misuse "your" data in their nefarious deeds, there's a lot of stuff that could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I am not sure whether to go ahead with using this service because I am not too knowledgeable about configuring mail servers. If you know any better ways for me to go as asked in the earlier question on the forum please let me know. 31740[/snapback] Once your email address is discovered by the spammers (and if you have it posted on your website, the spiders have gotten it), there is no stopping spam. And there is no other service that will 'report' spam for you. The only thing that can be done (if you do not know how to configure mailservers) is to use a content filter or choose a service that will filter email for you (hotmail now filters out much spam; my ISP uses spamassassin which tags spam; the spamcop email service also uses spamassassin as well as blocklists). If email is very important to you, then you need to take time to learn how it works or to hire someone to manage it for you. Miss Betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hole Posted August 17, 2005 Author Share Posted August 17, 2005 Hi, Thanks for your letter. I could still use the SpamCop service if I could have someone talk me through it when setting it up. I find this the best and most efficient way to set up things like that. If someone can give me their phone number it would be appreciated. I also have Yahoo and MSN Messenger and have a microphone if you wish to use that method. If I use the SpamCop service I would like to be sure I use it properly so that no problems are caused. I have a filter on my webbased email and do use it. The problem with filters is that they can also stop genuine email and allow spam through. My host use Spamassassin but it used to also change the subjects of some genuine emails and there was no way to change them back again. This made sorting and searching for the genuine emails difficult. I thought there may be an organization somewhere where even people who are not very knowledgeable on mail servers could forward spam emails on to human beings who could take action. I did read the following at http://www.spamhaus.org/faq/answers.lasso?...ric%20Questions that stated the below: “The only public DNSBL system you can currently report spam to is SpamCop. You can also report your spam (by forwarding it complete with full headers) to the U.S. government's spam-evidence database run by the FTC at: spam[at]uce.gov “ I was not game enough to send any email to spam[at]uce.gov in case they thought it was me sending the spam. I am not sure if anyone knows anything about them or how to use their service. If you do, please let me know. It would be good if there was a service people could report spam to that was no risk to those who reported it and was easy to do for an average Internet user to use or learn how to do. If anyone knows of one, please let me know. Your help is appreciated, Regards Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenUnderwood Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 If I use the SpamCop service I would like to be sure I use it properly so that no problems are caused. 31751[/snapback] Richard, Use of the Spamcop Tool is not so much in setting it up right as a continued reading of the reports you are going to send to make sure they are reasonable. It is NOT a set and forget type system. For each spam email received you will need to submit the message properly (we have yet even gotten there it seems), then follow up on the web site, confirm the reports you are about to send are reasonable, then click the send button. You are the very first person I have made this reccomendation to, but based on your trouble here reading the FAQ and not answering questions, I would recommend you NOT use the service, because it does not seem you are willing to invest the time to do it right. I thought there may be an organization somewhere where even people who are not very knowledgeable on mail servers could forward spam emails on to human beings who could take action. 31751[/snapback] Spamcop is NOT that service. It is a completely automated tool to help YOU report your spam to the ISP and to add the source IP to the BL. In order to use any tool, you need to learn how to use it properly and safely. It would be good if there was a service people could report spam to that was no risk to those who reported it and was easy to do for an average Internet user to use or learn how to do. If anyone knows of one, please let me know. 31751[/snapback] Well, for every internet user I have met until now, Spamcop is the service you describe. I am sorry it is not working out for you. If you wish to continue, please start by working with your email application to reveal the full internet headers of the message (you might need to contact your mail app vendor for this or tell us the application being used so we can help) and paste them with the body into the reporting box when you are logged into the spamcop site. You may be best off starting with a message you send yourself and canceling any reports so you know what a normal message looks like then proceeding to spam which are often modified to make it difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I could still use the SpamCop service if I could have someone talk me through it when setting it up. I find this the best and most efficient way to set up things like that. If you are interested in using the internet, then you need to get used to doing things 'without' someone talking you through it. I am definitely technically non-fluent. However, I was able to set up my spamcop account with Wazoo's and others' help via email and newsgroup (which is not nearly as friendly as forum). If you are not interested in learning what you need to know about IP addresses and email addresses and how to submit a report, then IMHO, spamcop is not for you. Reporting spam will NOT stop spam. The only action that will stop spam is to blocklist those IP addresses that send spam. However, not enough people using the internet understand this. What you need is someone to help you deal with the results of spamassassin. Give up and hire someone! Miss Betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hole Posted August 18, 2005 Author Share Posted August 18, 2005 Hi, Thanks for your letter. I could probably do it myself with step by step written instructions. However, I am a bit reluctant to do it myself without someone confirming I have done it right first. This is because of the risk involved as I quoted below by my earlier question and the answer I received. Someone said there were prompts to guide you so that it is unlikely to submit your own IP. However, I saw none. Someone else said to just go to your webbased email and forward or redirect the spam to the address SpamCop gave me which I did and there was an error message. Also there is a form on my account at http://members.spamcop.net/ where you can paste the spam message. It has a button on The bottom labeled “Process spam” I am not sure if prompts will appear after I press the button or whether it will submit the report so that I may suffer the below consequences. MY EARLIER QUESTION What is the worst thing that could happen if I did accidentally report myself so that the SpamCop Parsing and Reporting Tool thought my IP address was the address sending out the spam? Could it mean that my IP address could be blacklisted on some servers so that it would reduce the chances of me getting emails through to some servers? ANSWER I RECEIVED. Yes. It could also mean that you could have your MSP, ISP, and/or SpamCop Account warned, suspended, fined, and/or terminated, or that you could be sued for breach of contract. It depends on how the abuse desk and legal personnel at your MSP and ISP feel that day, and how egregious they perceive the violation(s) to be. Also, how long may it take the average internet user to learn and do the submission process? Your help is appreciated, Regards Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 I could probably do it myself with step by step written instructions. How to use ... tutoruals already pointed to. Yet, you say nothing at all about looking at them. Furthermore, you've yet to state what web-mail application is in use, despite having that question asked over a half-dozen times. However, I am a bit reluctant to do it myself without someone confirming I have done it right first. This is because of the risk involved as I quoted below by my earlier question and the answer I received. Though it's been stated over and over that nothing gets Sent until you send it .. you keep repeating nonsense like this ...???? Someone said there were prompts to guide you so that it is unlikely to submit your own IP. However, I saw none. Where? I see no such thing stated anywhere. At best, you may be referring to the continued, repeated statements that you must review the results, then decide on which complaints / reports to Send .... Someone else said to just go to your webbased email and forward or redirect the spam to the address SpamCop gave me which I did and there was an error message. What is the game you're playuing here? In your last, you said "someone said to Forward as attachment" .. to which I replied that you're the one that said this wasn't an option. My first response in this Topic included all three versions of "sending your spam out" ..... I repeat, your repeating of the same data over and over isn't helping anyone, anything ... changing the facts helps even less. Also there is a form on my account at http://members.spamcop.net/ where you can paste the spam message. It has a button on The bottom labeled “Process spam” I am not sure if prompts will appear after I press the button or whether it will submit the report so that I may suffer the below consequences. At this pont, I'm done .... thoughts are to even go ahead and close this Topic as it's been a complete waste of time to this point. Also, how long may it take the average internet user to learn and do the submission process? 31769[/snapback] Not more than a couple of minutes at best .. perhaps some more time spent due to lack of a bit of research .... but absolutely nothing like this ... At this point, I'm getting the impression that you are simply attempting to see how long you can drag this out. I see no reason to allow you to continue to waste everyone else's time. Tell you what, if you "actually, really" want help .... install RealVNC, send me the IP and password .... phone call is a bit absurd based on the fact that even trying to work through the unknown web-based application and its capabilities would take too dang long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 I cannot believe all of you have let this go on this long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hole Posted August 18, 2005 Author Share Posted August 18, 2005 Hi What is the exact URL of the “How to use” tutoruals you mentioned.? All the links at http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2238 would take many days to study and read properly. I read about about SCBL in the FAQ that you said to read. I also read the links at http://members.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/1.html and http://members.spamcop.net/help.shtml My webmail is at http://webmail.truesolutions.info/ . I do not know the name of it or the company that produced it. My host put it on there. Also I have a question. I did read the following at http://www.spamhaus.org/faq/answers.lasso?...ric%20Questions that stated the below: “The only public DNSBL system you can currently report spam to is SpamCop. You can also report your spam (by forwarding it complete with full headers) to the U.S. government's spam-evidence database run by the FTC at: spam[at]uce.gov “ Does anyone know about sending spam to spam[at]uce.gov? Do you know anyone I could phone to talk me through this because it will be a lot quicker than through the forum? That is the way my web hosts have helped me in the past and it is the quickest way. I had no problems that way. Your help is appreciated, Regards Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Limit has been reached. Even your last questions are already in the FAQ here. Links to the How to use ... tutorials were specifically provided in one of my previous posts. A specific piece of software was pointed to, directions were to install it and pass on the data. Your multiple requests for a phone number has obviously been ignored and I suggested why it would be a waste of time. This discussion is closed. Attempts to start a new Topic with the same data/questions asked will simply be deleted. BTW: your webmail application is IMP / Horde .. the same application used for the SpamCop filtered E-Mail accounts <!-- IMP: Copyright 2001-2004, The Horde Project. IMP is under the GPL. --> <!-- Horde Project: http://horde.org/ | IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ --> <!-- GNU Public License: http://www.fsf.org/copyleft/gpl.html --> <html lang="en-US"><head> <title>Webmail :: Welcome to Webmail</title> <link rel="SHORTCUT ICON" href="/horde/imp/graphics/favicon.ico" type="image/x-icon" /> <link href="/horde/css.php?app=imp" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" /> </head> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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