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diatribe against those idiots = ???


Wazoo

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Brought from a PM.

Following your reply to my posting in news.spamcop.net I looked at the forum where you pointed me, and decided I should subscribe to the forums since that seems to be where you post the information your customers need.

I filled in the form, which asked for my user-name: so I gave it my Spamcop user name. I received a confirmation e-mail, and went to read what was on the forums. The first thing I found was a diatribe against those idiots who use their spamcop e-mail address as their forum name. Since that's exactly what the registration form seemed to be asking, that's what I did.

Please delete the forum name xxxxx[at]spamcop.net. I'll carry on using news.spamcop.net - it's quieter, but it's a lot friendlier.

I posted an Announcement back on 22 Sep 2005. Four contacts made due to that post. Title change made based on a syggestion from farelf on 3 ct 2005. This is the first unrequested response since that action. I'd sent out PMson 4 Oct 2005 to some users displaying thier e-mail address, starting with those with non-SpamCOp.net addresses. Thus far, a single response to those, and that particular user had issues with not wanting to screw up his SpamCop e-mail account (at least 5 PMs to clear that up, e-mail from Don about user's having issues with (either) the PM or the Announcement (or something?) .. guessing at the same user involved based on the timeframe involved, but could be wrong ...???)

From my perspective, the "issue" is (at least) hinted at in the Title, background and reason is offered in that post, and (depending on browser reaction) the included link (atte,m) to take one to Section 7 - Change of Username of the Forum FAQ (BTW: Section 1 states that this Forum app is a separate function, such that even if one has a SpamCop.net e-mail address, Reporting Account, whatever, one still has to register here with a 'new' account) ... I feel that the concept and request is documented .. and, in my normal fashion, the 'answer' is also an opportunity to glean even more data that one may not have thought to ask ....

Anyone else willing to add to the "diatribe" description, want to do up a change, or add to the thoughts that perhaps it's simply a waste of time to try to protect some folks from themselves?

For the record, for those folks that (also) forgot ... I'm looking at the Registration screen .. first item to enter is "Username" ... a java scri_pt pop-up is available on hovering the mouse over a question-mark .. "Usernames must be between 3 and 32 characters long" ... Below that are the boxes to fill in "Password" and "Email Address" .... I fail to see any "suggestion" to use one's e-mail address as a "Username" .... nothing to prevent it, but responding to the quoted PM traffic ... one step more, I don't recall using the word "idiots" anywhere, even recognizing that some folks may want the additional exposure of thier e-mail address ...???

Do I even need to try to respond to the "your customers" comment?

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Brought from a PM.
<snip>

I filled in the form, which asked for my user-name: so I gave it my Spamcop user name.... The first thing I found was a diatribe against those idiots who use their spamcop e-mail address as their forum name. Since that's exactly what the registration form seemed to be asking, that's what I did.

<snip>

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...If this user does not see a difference between a user name and an e-mail address, I guess I'm not sure what to say, other than (s)he made an honest mistake? And where's the article that suggests that it's stupid to sign up with one's e-mail address as one's forum user name? It's only stupid to not ask for a user-name change once you're here and notice that your e-mail address is exposed to all the world, including spiders, to see. :) <g>
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What I replied with;

Following your reply to my posting in news.spamcop.net I looked at the forum where you pointed me, and decided I should subscribe to the forums since that seems to be where you post the information your customers need.

You must have me confused with someone else. I am only a volunteer SpamCop.net supporter. I have no "customers" 'here' or in the newsgroups. "My" customers have nothing to do with SpamCop.net.

I filled in the form, which asked for my user-name: so I gave it my Spamcop user name.  I received a confirmation e-mail, and went to read what was on the forums.  The first thing I found was a diatribe against those idiots who use their spamcop e-mail address as their forum name.  Since that's exactly what the registration form seemed to be asking, that's what I did.

I used no words like that in that Topic, I don't consider it a diatribe, even recognizing that some users actually "want" the increased exposure of their e-mail address. There is now a Topic posted in the Lounge area asking for more input, based on these comments.

Please delete the forum name xxxxxx[at]spamcop.net.  I'll carry on using news.spamcop.net - it's quieter, but it's a lot friendlier.

Won't be deleted until you read this, at least ... but I'm baffled by your commentary, and find it hard to believe you'd ignore a 'help' resource based on the reading of a single post/Topic. There are a lot of people contributing in here from all around the world.

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And, while this is in total conflict with a posting I made earlier today, it involves the same folks I was attempting to thank ... Somedays, it's just so confusing ....

The screen says you are an "Admin".  I thought Admins were official representatives of spamcop, and could delete accounts if asked.

Yes, JT slid me into the Admin slot on this thig. Yes, I can delete te account. I can also follow up on a "change" request and change your "displayed name" ... Perhaps you are confusing the Admin / Moderator 'titles' here with "Deputies" ...??? Deputies are in fact now paid staff members. All of this is documented (a bit) in the "Forum FAQ" .. links at the top of the page, at each Forum entry page ...

I tried to use the forum and immediately found it an unfriendly, unhelpful place, rather like the news.spamcop.net group.  I don't get simple answers that I can understand, I get "clever" remarks that I don't.  I don't have time or the ability to search all over the internet for answers in plain English;  I thought the idea of newsgroups and forums is that folks can ask there and be helped.  I asked, but I got no help.  So I muddle on without help.

I see no posts "here" asking for help. You also don't make it obvious that you've looked around much.

But I did read on that forum that I shouldn't use my spamcop e-mail address as my user name.  So please delete xxxxxx[at]spamcop.net, or if you can't, please pass this to someone who can.

Tell you what, I'll let it ride for a bit to give you time to actually look around a bit.

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I guess the challenge is to see them not as idiots, but as fellow spam-bedevilled denizens in a disintegrating and unsocialized network in need of special/different help on account of some or all of: their (presently) under-developed knowledge base/problem solving skills, lack of appropriate vocabulary and/or analytical capability to describe their problems, short attention spans/impatience for (usually non-existent) easy solutions, unwillingness to learn, bad attitude and frustration with applications and systems that have evolved with commercial considerations generally over-riding any notion of utility.

These are not exclusive attributes, that's fairly well the whole population to greater or lesser extent including "us", excluding little more than the terminally optimistic, robots, those who enjoy being harmed, Mr William Gates (happy birthday in 3 weeks, Bill - the big "five-oh") and those bloody spammers. Those who come "here" to post can only be regarded as falling within the upper tail of capability/motivation distributions, no matter if we've seen it all before.

Wazoo, for a little light distraction, you could amuse yourself by drawing up your "job description". The rest of us could then worry ourselves silly over the "succession plan" :)

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Registration Terms & Rules

Wazoo, What do you think about adding the following paragraph to the above mentioned terms?

When selecting a user name, we strongly recommend that you do NOT use your email address but rather select a name you would like to be known by within this forum. It must be between 3 and 32 characters in length and not currently in use by some one else. We also recommend that you read the SpamCop Forum FAQ (accessable by clicking on this link) as it provides additional information regarding registering for and using this forum. Thank you in advance for taking the time to read the SpamCop Forum FAQ.

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The trick is, you draw breath at each punctuation point, not just periods (and on the opening and closing of parentheses). See - you don't go blue around the lips at all then, in fact I'm positively hyperventilating :o

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Wazoo, for a little light distraction, you could amuse yourself by drawing up your "job description".

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Caught me in the act? Just recently turned down again in a job interview, the "over-qualified" thing once again. Many moons back, when going for a "Government" job where one documents everything, the packahe I supplied for my 'history' was over 70 pages long. (a bit of perspective on that at Big Deal or So What? ... For this application, simple one-two word type responses placed onto the blank lines provided on their application form. Turns out that a couple of folks at this company (in another town about 20 miles away) knew me and had already filled in the guy on what (they knew) that I did. So why would someone with my background, experience, and knowledge want to work on the factory floor? The eamples of watching a 22-year old 13" TV (originally bought for the display screen for a TI-99/4a computer) .. too small retirement check, the bike with a bad battery and bald tires, etc. wasn't convincing somehow <g>

The rest of us could then worry ourselves silly over the "succession plan" :)

Learned early in my military career that making oneself 'indespensable' isn't always a good thing. I remember hiding in a closet once in an attempt to do the "he's not home" trick ... (didn't work based on both the car and motorcycle being parked out front) ... issue happened during an xmas season, other folks had gone 'back to the states' on leave/vacation .. leaving me (poor even then <g>) the only tech with training/knowledge on some systems that took an entire field station off-line. After just recently done a 40+ hour stint, I really wasn't in the mood to go back to work. However, as the field station commander had been given the data on what he needed to do next (in order to fill in those 'action taken' spots on his status reports [priority message back to POTUS as the site was "down"]) and my name had come up in every conversation he'd had that day, military police were sent to get me back on site ... (for reference, phones were very expensive for an enlisted guy in Germany back then, and only "required" if on lived in other than Government quarters)

With that bit of history in mind, most of the things I do 'here' are documented. so if/when there is a succession, JT finds the time to do it himself, or if/when the next upgrade is applied (IPB's standard practice is to basically provide the package with the suggested instructions of simply deleting the all existing files [but one for configuration] and replacing with the new, thus deleting all the modifications made to the previous version) ... hopefully, there won't be that much of an issue with "carrying on" <g> Of course, that said while sitting here with the PHP 'manual' showing on one screen, the MySQL 'manual' showing on another screen, a laptop showing the Forum page, another laptop displaying some of this app's code, and composing this response on yet another desktop .... let's hope the next person already knows this stuff <g>

This all brought up yet another of those flashbacks, keying in on the motorcycle of that day Way too much speed! ... when moving from Germany to Virginia, if I was to ship that bike back, the plan at the time meant that it would have to be shipped to New York and then I'd have to ride it down to Virginia .... no way could I convince myself to do that <g> .. I tried to sell it for a number of months, but no wanting to give it to someone without a clue. Unfortunately, a guy showed up one day that had a roommate that used to race off-road bikes. This guy used the right words to indicate that he knew two-strokes, knew how to ride, etc. ... so took his money, signed the paperwork, gave him the keys. The bike was out of time (that year had a set of points for each cylinder [after 100 miles or so, you could notice the dropoff in performance]) figuring that by the time he figured out how to tune it up, he'd have some concept of what he was riding. Once again, that "helpful" roommate got involved, and helped this guy tune it up. The last time I saw that bike, (maybe two weeks later?) the front wheel and fork tubes were buried in the front of the engine. The girl he'd had on the back was in the hospital for something like 3 weeks. The accident was within city limits, the route taken would have involved making a right hand turn at an intersection (traffic light, angled at much more then 90 degrees, requiring a speed of "slow" to negotiate), running down a small 'hill' to go under a set of train-tracks .. he managed to run head-on (although 90-degrees to the flow of traffic) into the support section for the overhead tracks dividing the two lanes of traffic ... less than 200 yards / meters, into the underpass, and somehow did a right-turn to run into the support columm, fast/hard enough to do all that damage ..??? .. dang, I miss that bike <g>

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Registration Terms & Rules

Wazoo, What do you think about adding the following paragraph to the above mentioned terms?

When selecting a user name, we strongly recommend that you do NOT use your email address but rather select a name you would like to be known by within this forum.  It must be between 3 and 32 characters in length and not currently in use by some one else.  We also recommend that you read the SpamCop Forum FAQ (accessable by clicking on this link) as it provides additional information regarding registering for and using this forum.  Thank you in advance for taking the time to read the SpamCop Forum FAQ.

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Tme span between the query and response explained, hopefully seen as justified.

The registration terms, some guidelines, some details have always been looked at as needing some change ... in my opinion. The catch is, as we seem to keep pointing out, I'm not in charge of anything at that level.

For starters, this data has not been seen as appropriate for a "Terms & Rules" declaration ... so it won't be going into that screen at all. The next shot was going to be modifying the entry screen to include the "suggest not using your e-mail address for your account name" type of comment. That got placed on a backburner while I was doing some reseach, having some dialog with other foks (to include non-SpamCop entites) about the copyright situation and how some issues should be handled .... (as fast as e-mail may be, and as money hasn't been offered as part of my requests for help from some folks, answers do tend to take their time in coming back <g>) Anyway, that situation and the ensuing wordsmithing is still in the background and off in the distance for now ...

The attempt at PMing folks (diplaying e-mail addresses as an account name) at this point I'll simply call a failure. E-mail to several have resulted in bounces. Action taken at that point was .. if that account had zero posts, no signs of activity since sign-up, that account was deleted. Those accounts that have posts showing are a bit wrapped in the copyright questions I'm trying to get worked out.

In the meantime, have got myself wrapped up in the population of the KnowledgeBase/FAQ thing I finally got installed. Apologies offered for the delay in a response.

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