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Silly Rant .. No details or Facts provided


webidabi

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well.....sounds like a good story but really not the truth! I started working with this system a few weeks ago and guess what 3X MORE spam IN ALL MY ACCOUNTS!! hmmm seems like we should call you spamspam.net because its no help at all and you really end up with more spam.... even on my accounts that we staying clean now have spam!

THANK YOU SPAMSPAM oh i mean SPAMCOPS!!! :wub:

Moderator Edit: extracted from http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=8419 and moved to the Lounge

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well.....sounds like a good story but really not the truth!

statement made without following and reading any of the previously referenced links. Yet again, a fantastic first post ...

I started working with this system a few weeks ago and guess what 3X MORE spam IN ALL MY ACCOUNTS!! hmmm seems like we should call you spamspam.net

Nothing defined, nothing stated, so there is the great possibility that part of the issue was in the way you handled your spam for reporting. And as stated many times in so many other previous discussions, your timing may simply suck .... you decided to try out spamCop.net's Reporting at the same time your address started making the rounds to the/a more prolific spammer.

In the olden days, it could have been the possibility that the spammer actually read your "reports" and using the various embedded tracking codes in the original spam, could actually determine who it was sent to and make the determination that the address was 'hot' .... these days with the forged header data, spew beinf sent by compromised computers in the various BotNets, it's very hard to comceive that the spammer actually sees these Reports ... on the othewr hand, there are the prolific spammers that manage to set up their whole entire network with the aid of those ISPs that simply go for the big bucks ....

But again, you have offered absolutely zero data ....

because its no help at all and you really end up with more spam.... even on my accounts that we staying clean now have spam!

THANK YOU SPAMSPAM oh i mean SPAMCOPS!!! :wub:

Bringing in accounts that "were clean" and merging their "now receivoing spam" to the alleged actions of those previously spammed accounts that were used (somehow) for reporting is a pretty far stretch .... exactly how do you propose that you could submit a spam complaint from xxx[at]account1 and that action would then generate new spam arriving at zzz[at]account2 ...?????

Technically, am of the thought of splitting this post out to it's own Topic and then moving it to the Lounge as a simple rant .... the real issue being that this post has been made by someone who did not want to take the time to actually do any research, provide some factual data to work with ....

NOTE: this user Registered here using the term "webmaster" so the term "catch-all accounts" might be involved.

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:blink:

Ok...we shall try to see if your statements are true or false, follow along boys and girls!

A-) I did read and follow the previously referenced links. How could you possibly know otherwise unless you think "oh yea you must be able to read minds". Downloading a program from anyone installing it and inputing your email data is dangerous and stupid an all levels. Do you really think people are so stupid? Not to mention all the reasons you dont download a .exe file and run it on your pc..... ugh!

B-)The date I started using the system was on Mon 5/21/07 1:49 AM. I have forwarded all my email to my hotmail account last year to help with the spam problem, this works for the hotmail account but not the forwarded email. Needless to say I had to input 3 email address' to make sure the forwarding was working correctly with spam cop to identify the servers. At that time I had an average of 5 spam on 1 forwarded email per day.....that has gone to 20 per day . The second forwarded email address had maybe 5 every 2 days of so which now has gone to 15 per day. Also is my hotmail account..... 5-10 a day now but the spam filter seems to catch it. This is progress, or as you say my timeing sux? nice cop out!

C-) I reported the spam as directed by the instructions per spamcop.net. Possibility that I reported them wrong while following the instructions is slim. Exactly what data would help you in this forum to identify wether it is a bot or a greedy ISP is responsable.........yet again another fine cop out!

So as you can plainly read I followed the instructions, reported spam as I should.... and you say I have given no factual data? On what planet? THESE R THE FACTS and if you think I am simply ranting then you are the one who is missing the point.

Maybe you could help...thats what i come to you for and what do I get back but bla bla bla you are stupid.... this is a real answer? taking my post and shredding it like you are a spam GOD or somthing?

If there was more info that i could provide i would but..... may not be worth it anymore if this is the way posts are handled........ Have a Great Day!

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A-) I did read and follow the previously referenced links. How could you possibly know otherwise unless you think "oh yea you must be able to read minds". Downloading a program from anyone installing it and inputing your email data is dangerous and stupid an all levels. Do you really think people are so stupid? Not to mention all the reasons you dont download a .exe file and run it on your pc..... ugh!...
Um ... you do know this is SpamCop.net as opposed to com?
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<snip>A-) I did read and follow the previously referenced links. How could you possibly know otherwise unless you think "oh yea you must be able to read minds".

You do not seem to understand the content of the referenced links, however.

Downloading a program from anyone installing it and inputing your email data is dangerous and stupid an all levels. Do you really think people are so stupid? Not to mention all the reasons you dont download a .exe file and run it on your pc..... ugh!

See Farelf's answer. Unless of course, you are talking about something else.

B-)The date I started using the system was on Mon 5/21/07 1:49 AM. I have forwarded all my email to my hotmail account last year to help with the spam problem, this works for the hotmail account but not the forwarded email. <snip>

I have a couple of hotmail accounts. One was extremely spammy because I used it for posting in newsgroups, etc. I have the hotmail filter set at low and only get an occasional spam now that hotmail has started filtering. Another email address which is still posted on the web and gets dozens of spam is forwarded to hotmail. Again, I see very few spam (one or two at most) in my hotmail inbox. (a lot of them don't even make to the bulk email folder - including email that I want)

The point of giving my experience is that spam fluctuates according to who has the list, whether it is a holiday where they are, and several other factors. People have different experiences. Someone will post that their spam has disappeared. Others will come back and say their spam load is the same or has increased.

C-) <snip>Exactly what data would help you in this forum to identify wether it is a bot or a greedy ISP is responsable.........yet again another fine cop out!

The tracking url would provide the IP address which the more knowledgeable people can trace and tell you whether it is a bot or a greedy ISP's mail server. Not that it really matters whether it is a bot or a mail server to an end user. These days spammers do not seem to target reporters the way they did in the old days.

<snip>Maybe you could help...thats what i come to you for and what do I get back but bla bla bla you are stupid.... this is a real answer? <snip>

I am not sure exactly what it is that you want help with. Nobody can reduce the amount of spam that you get once your email address has been stolen by the spammers. spamcop reporting is designed to notify responsible ISPs that spammers have gotten by their defenses and to feed a blocklist that server admins can use to tag email from that system while the spam is being sent. Those who use the blocklist to tag and filter email or to block at the server level manage the spam that is sent to them. Unfortunately, at the present time, a very small minority of reports go to responsible server admins so that the major benefit of spamcop is the blocklist. Most server admins and people who use spamcop email or filters like Mailwasher use the spamcop blocklist in conjunction with several other spam filters to manage their spam influx.

Do you want help with how to use spam filters?

Miss Betsy

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As far as I'm concerned, your previous plan of handling spam seems very odd. But, as you've still not provided any data to work with, let me run with a silly guess. All this "forwarding" from one account to another and then somehow allegedly reporting via SpamCop.net has left markers, tags, and addresses in the headers of your forwarded, forwarfded, handled, reported e-mails. Generally, the Parsing & Reporting system does make an attempt at munging 'your' data, but that is typically based on the contents of the "To" line .... From the repeated description (as best I can make out) your 'reported' e-mail wuld apparently also have included these other e-mail addresses in the headers due to the Forwarding .. and these would not have been munged out. As repeatedly stated in numerous places, if you sent your Report to a lousy target recipient, then yes, all your other account data was still available in those headers.

This is also not meant to still include that you may have been handling your spam insecurely in order to do your Reporting. You still haven't actually defined your reporting process, nor what tools are involved.

Point: you are attempting to 'argue' with folks that are volunteering their time, knowledge, and experience with the SpamCop.net tool-set. I usually don't allow that kind of activity to continue for long.

Point: I was reporting spam long before SpamCop.net showed up, and still manually report most of my spam, as SpamCop.net doesn't go far enough to make me happy. I don't have your "problem" which should be hard to understand based on a dozen or so years of reporting spam directly from "me" using my own e-mail accounts. Yes, I've been mail-bombed, had various attacks, various forms of attempted retaliation, but .... this kind of crap hasn't happened in years, again, as the nature of spammers and spamming has changed so much .....

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Downloading a program from anyone installing it and inputing your email data is dangerous and stupid an all levels. Do you really think people are so stupid? Not to mention all the reasons you dont download a .exe file and run it on your pc..... ugh!

I agree with that, but I am confused. Were you asked to download a program and run it in order to be able to use SpamCop? This does not match my experience. I interact with SpamCop.net strictly through a web browser using standard HTTP/HTML, and do not require so much as a plug-in.

So as you can plainly read I followed the instructions, reported spam as I should.... and you say I have given no factual data? On what planet? THESE R THE FACTS and if you think I am simply ranting then you are the one who is missing the point.
I'm sorry, but I haven't been able to "plainly read" anything about your case from what you have posted. That's precisely the problem here, you are giving us nothing to work with.

You claim that associating with SpamCop.net has increased your spam, and you blame this directly on SpamCop.net. I think this may be a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc on your part, but leave that aside for the moment. You are making an extraordinary claim (i.e. SpamCop.net is a spammer), and it requires extraordinary proof, and not just "THESE R THE FACTS."

  • Did you try submitting virgin "spamtrap" addresses to SpamCop's mailhost registration process to see whether they got any spam afterward? Done properly, this would provide virtually irrefutable evidence.
  • Have you been able to find any hard evidence (in SMTP headers etc.) that information you submitted to SpamCop.net was subsequently used by spammers?
  • Do you have some other direct proof of a direct linkage between your use of SpamCop.net and your spam volume?
  • Do you have tracking URLs from any previous SpamCop reports you've filed so that we might be able to see how you are using the service?

Why not genuinely surprise me by answering one or more of these questions if you can.

Maybe you could help...thats what i come to you for and what do I get back but bla bla bla you are stupid.... this is a real answer? taking my post and shredding it like you are a spam GOD or somthing?

If there was more info that i could provide i would but..... may not be worth it anymore if this is the way posts are handled........ Have a Great Day!

I am sorry if you feel your post was disrespectfully treated. However, let's bear in mind that you started out this thread by making a wild and unsupported accusation about SpamCop.net, so it should not have surprised you to get this kind of response. It may still be possible for you to get some help here, but you're going have to stop trolling and start coming out with some verifiable facts.

-- rick

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...none of the facts provided jive with usage of SpamCop.net. Particularly downloading an exe file, sounds like you may have a grudge with spamcop.com, which as pointed out by others is a different cattle o'fish. Shall I repeat that? There is NO EXE file to download when you report via spamcop.net, in addition information pertaining to reporters can be munged to prevent possible identification by spammers (a very unlikely event anyhow). As for an increase in spam it has been a trend for everybody, report or not. Most of us get al lot more than 100/mailbox/day a lot more than your 15, so cheer up, you are lucky..

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<snip>

Too bad so many folks wasted their time and energy in even trying to help you out ....

...Anybody see any good reason to keep this forum thread/article open? I don't. If no one else does, I'll close it by end of day today (if I remember :) ).
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Hello again!

I will try and make this as nice as possible..... I am sorry if I offended any one of you here at the spamcop forums. That was not my intention. Yes I was angry and maybe I spoke out of turn. I do think that you (the spamcop team) are working hard to make a diffference. After my comments were made into "Silly Rant .. No details or Facts provided" this kinda made me go a little more crazy. If i needed to provide more details I obviously did not know what they were. I looked through the forum to try to understand what kind of details but still this is not clear. Quoting and tearing apart my words did not help and only made me more frustrated because I still did not understand.....What details would help you to identify where my errors were? Thx for showing a noobie just how tuff it is to get a little info. Simple answer I came to this place for help :D

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If i needed to provide more details I obviously did not know what they were. I looked through the forum to try to understand what kind of details but still this is not clear. What details would help you to identify where my errors were?

Several people tried to offer clues, hints, pointers. That you ignored everyone is why that Topic was closed.

That you are asking for folks to try again on a 'fresh' start is admirable, but ..... will merge this back into the original Topic, as it is the same query.

This time, take your 'fresh' look at just what was said there, by all other users.

This time, actually take some time to read and absorb some of the data found in the other referenced previous discussions.

This time, try answering the questions asked of you .. perhaps beat those questions down by reading one of the "How to ask a good question" entries and provide that daya in your next post.

Thx for showing a noobie just how tuff it is to get a little info. Simple answer I came to this place for help :D

"We" have tried, tried, and tried .... folks couldn't figure out how to wade through the 'original' FAQ .. made a single-page-access-and-expanded version here .. there is the "How to use ..." Forum section available that could use some help, yet ..... the internal search tool in this has issues, so added a Google search at the top of the screen .... folks don't understand the words, so made a Glossary, then added another Dictionary tool .... folks didn't like the original FAQ or the songle-page-access FAQ, so a Wiki was started .... almost all of this data is available without having to Register here to post a question ....

You say it's hard to "get some simple info" .... whereas there are some of us that would state that it is very tiring to continue to insert the same data into these various venues, formats and displays, Pinned Topics, Discussion answers, etc. just so that folks can ignore all of that data and simply post a 'rant' ....

A "good" rant will include details, specifics, and some hard data ....

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For folks wondering about why this Topic has been re-opened .... Topic starter wants to try again, but is asking for some of the same data provided in this original Topic ... see no reason to have both Topics floating around, when it's the same subject matter from the same user, there by asking any one that participated in the first Topic to have to repeat in the second Topic ... but again, the lack of data thus far really doesn't make this a candidate to merge into one of the other existing Topics about the specific issue ....

As far as the "new" Topic Title "Sorry SpamCops" used .... is a bit off .... Please see Section 8 - SpamCop's System & Active Staff User Guide .... as I stated previously, the folks you are dealing with 'here' are other users, volunteering their time ....actual 'visits' by the "paid staff" are basically pretty rare, usually caused by directly asking them to provide some specific insight or details not available anywhere else ....

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What details would help you to identify where my errors were?
OK, let's try again.
  1. Are you sure that you are a user of SPAMCOP.NET and not SPAMCOP.COM or some other unrelated "copycat"? Your description of how you use SpamCop (i.e., download an executable and run it on your computer) made many of us wonder.
  2. If the answer to the above is "YES," then how do you use SpamCop.NET? As a free reporting service? As a paid mail-filtering service? As a DNSBL? Some other use?
  3. What is the specific problem you have with the way SpamCop.NET works?
  4. What leads you to believe that SpamCop.NET is the cause of the problem?
  5. Can you show us some of the reports you have filed using SpamCop? If so, you need to make them available as "Tracking URLs." If you do not know what a "tracking URL" is, I would suggest that you search and read the SpamCop FAQ linked at the top of this page. You should also look at other topics to see how people use the tracking URLs when they ask questions or report problems.

-- rick

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Hello again!<snip>What details would help you to identify where my errors were? <snip>

I am still in the dark about what you want help with. Nobody can reduce the amount of spam you get. There are ways to 'manage spam' so that you get the email you want in one folder and the spam email in another folder.

If you just want to know more about spam and the efforts of people to get rid of it, read the various FAQ and then ask specific questions about that article (referencing it in your post by copying the URL and using the 'insert link' icon above). People will be more than happy to explain or to give you a link to something that will answer your question.

If you are using spamcop.net, have configured your mailhosts, and have not received error messages, I don't think you have made any errors that have increased your spam level. As others have pointed out, spam increases and decreases for a number of unknown reasons. It is probably not due to reporting via spamcop.net. And, even if it were, there is nothing that you, or anyone else, can do about it.

We can understand about your anger and frustration with spam since all of us started out with anger and frustration over some spam situation that drove us to look for solutions and led us to spamcop.

Miss Betsy

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