Missing submit messages

[detour]

And yet, have you tried to cc your hotmail account on your submissions as requested? It has taken some people several levels of Comcast support before they got to someone who actually knew what was going on.

It is still possible that SpamCop is having an issue, but there are no major reports of such an issue. I have reported at least one spam via email each day for the last couple of weeks (messages that slip by spamcop's webmail filters) and while they are taking longer than they have in the past (15-60 minutes) every one has come back.

Two of your tests I would expect to fail if Comcast were filtering outgoing messages. I would always expect a small percentage of messages to make it past these filters just like I always expect a small percentage to evade incoming filters.

I can not explain the hotmail one but it is possible they are also filtering outgoing messages.

If a message is sent to your spamcop submit address and another address, arrives in the alternate address but not spamcop, then you have proof of an issue at spamcop. It is also possibly a problem with your specific submit address which could explain why you are having issues and nobody else seems to be reporting anything. That would need to be investigated by the deputies[at]admin.spamcop.net address.

Cannot answer for funinatl to which your response above is directed but for me I can say absolutely! I can forward all spam easily using, as I stated earlier, Comcast and Outlook Express. Sorry if not mentioned before. I can forward as attachment ALL received spam all day, any day, to any other email address. Just did a couple of more to be sure nothing has changed over the past few hours. Meanwhile, only one submission to SpamCop was received/acknowledged by SpamCop out of half a dozen or so sent past 24 hours.

The problem is at SpamCop's end. Of that I now have no doubt. None.

I've been submitting spam to SpamCop for over five years and pretty well understand the nuances involved. I also have seen similar issues and other reporting problems such as this during the past and they are usually resolved within days and/or a notice to that effect is put on the report page. But this time, nothing. Also, still no response to my email of 11/08. Have you had any contact with anyone at Spamcop to see what input they might have?

Nothing said about copies of these things sent anywhere else .. therefore you have not demonstrated that any of these actually left a ComCast e-mail server.

I have demonstrated multiple times. No problems.

I'm still inclined to go with that your outgoing is being dropped by the ComCast servers, based on that they 'look just like spam'

Nope. Not a Comcast issue. I beleive that the problem is on Spamcop's end.

[Miss Betsy]

Sometimes I think when your submissions to spamcop are not being accepted, it is because, spamcop got a bounce from you and you need to reset your password. I think there is a button on the spamcop page to do that.

If not, then you need to email service [at] admin.spamcop.net

from the FAQ if you have determined the problem is at spamcop's end:

2. Try to login to "your" web page, as found in the link in your registration confirmation e-mail. (http://www.spamcop.net/?code=sOmeTextAnDNumbers) If your login is refused, you may need to go to Why was my authorization revoked? for a probable explanation.

3. If your login is successful, then (also noted in the above FAQ) the issue may simply be that for some reason, your secret e-mail address has been flagged by the SpamCop Parsing and Reporting Service as having bounced. Once flagged, the Service will not waste any more time trying to send anything to that address. If you are in this situation, it will be very clear on the Service page - instead of being able to paste your spam, you will be presented with the following:

Bounce error

Your email address, your secret email address here has returned a bounce:

Subject: subject of problem email message here

Please ensure your email account is reliable, then click below:

followed by a "Problem resolved" Button. You should do some research to make sure that your secret email address referenced in the message can receive email successfully, and then click the "Problem resolved" Button. Once the "Problem resolved" Button has been clicked, you should get a response "Bounce flag reset, thank you." Clicking the "Problem resolved" Button tells the Service that the "problem with bouncing from your secret email address has been resolved" and the Service will start to send your email to your secret email address once again. You should then "Report Now" (if necessary) to catch up on any spams that you have submitted but not yet reported, noting that any attempted autoresponses to emailed spam submissions received during the period when the bounce flag was set were silently discarded.

4. If none of the above turns out to the issue in your situation, the troubleshooting address for this Failure Point is "service <at> admin.spamcop.net" . Please provide sufficient data to ease the research needed at this end, your SpamCop account data, the other e-mail addresses involved, time-frame of the transmittals that failed ... )

You said that you did email spamcop. You can try again, and add as many details as you can - if the deputies are really busy, they seem to answer the emails that have all the information they need first. If you haven't tried the measures set forth above, then try emailing them after you have done so.

Miss Betsy

[StevenUnderwood]

You said that you did email spamcop. You can try again, and add as many details as you can - if the deputies are really busy, they seem to answer the emails that have all the information they need first. If you haven't tried the measures set forth above, then try emailing them after you have done so.

In addition, you can point them to this thread which should provide additional views of what has been asked and answered.

[SpamCopAdmin]

Sometimes I think when your submissions to spamcop are not being accepted, it is because, spamcop got a bounce from you and you need to reset your password. I think there is a button on the spamcop page to do that.

When our system mail to a user bounces, the account is automatically suspended, the bounce is logged on the account for my reference, and a button appears on the "Welcome" page so that the user can log in and resolve the bounce issue when his email address is working again.

It has *nothing* to do with the user's password. The password is irrelevant to the bounce issue. Changing the password will NOT affect the bounce issue.

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

[StevenUnderwood]

When our system mail to a user bounces, the account is automatically suspended, the bounce is logged on the account for my reference, and a button appears on the "Welcome" page so that the user can log in and resolve the bounce issue when his email address is working again.

It has *nothing* to do with the user's password. The password is irrelevant to the bounce issue. Changing the password will NOT affect the bounce issue.

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

Don:

Are you aware of any issues with the spamcop parser either not accepting or losing submitted messages as they are claiming? I don't think they are to the point of messages going out being the issue since the Report spam Now link is not being seen.

Do you have enough information here to help either detour or funinatl resolve their issue?

What can they do to get to a resolution or explaination?

[Miss Betsy]

You are absolutely right! I must have been thinking about the other problem about the password when I typed that. When I typed that, I almost awake. Now I am almost asleep. You would reset something if you hit that button and, if that was your problem, it would get fixed.

Did the OP try it? or did the misleading password entirely confuse him?

Miss Betsy

[SpamCopAdmin]

Are you aware of any issues with the spamcop parser either not accepting or losing submitted messages as they are claiming?

No. If there were actually system problems, it would be affecting a lot of people, and it isn't.

The engineers are constantly monitoring our mail flow, and I know that we don't have a server hoarding mail or anything. All is well.

I tell everybody pretty much the same thing, which is to put a distinctive and unique subject line on their email to their 'submit' address, and put the same subject line on the spam itself, and when the submission doesn't get here, go to their ISP and demand to know what's happening.

If the user puts an encoded Subject line on his submission message, it makes it easier for the help desk to find it in the logs. If he puts that same subject line on the spam itself before he submits it, I can see it in the report history and I will know which spams got here and which didn't.

I often send a test submission to the users account to demonstrate that the spam submissions are getting here OK. I send all my mail from outside the SpamCop system because I work from home. If my submissions get to the user's account, then I know theirs will, too.

I use a subject line like this: Submit Test 17:46 Thurs

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

[emanmb]

I'm glad I found this post as it sounds similar to issues I have been having.

I have been assuming that my spam fwd'ed from Yahoo over the last month or so were being waylayed for 45 mins. to 8+hours because of a Yahoo issue.

Tonight I got a yahoo mailer daemon email of a spamcop FWD that may shed light for those who can interpret the header. I did notice a "420" designation for the error....hehee that might explain a lot! hehe

I submit spam from my free yahoo account as an attachment as I always do.

ALSO, I complained to Yahoo tonight about long send times. The reply that came back said they hoped to have this fixed by Nov. 23!

So that "confirms" a yahoo problem (?), YET, my paid yahoo account through AT&T has no such slow down or issues getting spam to spamcop. That should muddy the water a bit.

Anyway, below is the yahoo mailer daemon text and email header that will hopefully help. This is from my free yahoo account. If I can supply any other info let me know.

Yes, when I send email from my free yahoo account to another address (typing the time sent in the subject) there was one w/a 45 minute delay and there's another test email sent at 8:49 tonight and it's now 12:34am and still a no-show! To confuse this issue, which seems to come and go, I just now sent a test email and badabing it came thru right away.

Eric

--------

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at yahoo.com.

I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following

addresses.

This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<submit.3gFetSLB9FQFIgRy[at]spam.spamcop.net>:

69.147.75.190 failed after I sent the message.

Remote host said: 420 Please try later

I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too

long.

--- Below this line is a copy of the message.

Return-Path: <emanmb[at]yahoo.com>

Received: (qmail 71313 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2007 19:18:13

-0000

DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;

s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;

h=Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID;

b=i6r0VzdMFYt7x73oPIdFDmdsJhlyEgytnsGViLNzWHCOHtW1Bttw4r9KcArZg+peNI4m4LLMKxGAJGtxHGvoiKktobJHk7O5guxVNdaBuP5fWeGEPHgyGH4/Tb58Qq6VYrkWGRwO2WzD6AOyb6GPmG/XsNvXVSBy448DCeFHYsI=;

Received: from [76.224.32.8] by web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP;

Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:18:13 PST

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:18:13 -0800 (PST)

From: Eric______ <eric's_email[at]yahoo.com>

Subject: Fwd: Pop Corns dates

To: submit.3gFetSLB9FQFIgRy[at]spam.spamcop.net, knujon

<en9955[at]coldrain.net>,

spam[at]uce.gov

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: multipart/mixed;

boundary="0-2104339193-1194981493=:70776"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Message-ID: <815973.70776.qm[at]web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

--0-2104339193-1194981493=:70776

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Content-Id:

Content-Disposition: inline

[detour]

No. If there were actually system problems, it would be affecting a lot of people, and it isn't.

The engineers are constantly monitoring our mail flow, and I know that we don't have a server hoarding mail or anything. All is well.

I tell everybody pretty much the same thing, which is to put a distinctive and unique subject line on their email to their 'submit' address, and put the same subject line on the spam itself, and when the submission doesn't get here, go to their ISP and demand to know what's happening.

If the user puts an encoded Subject line on his submission message, it makes it easier for the help desk to find it in the logs. If he puts that same subject line on the spam itself before he submits it, I can see it in the report history and I will know which spams got here and which didn't.

I often send a test submission to the users account to demonstrate that the spam submissions are getting here OK. I send all my mail from outside the SpamCop system because I work from home. If my submissions get to the user's account, then I know theirs will, too.

I use a subject line like this: Submit Test 17:46 Thurs

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

Thank you to all for your help. However - Problem appears most definitely now to be a Comcast issue. Please take back my previous insistence that it wasn't.

I have been forwarding spam as attachments and have also been including for the past two days another address back to me so that I can verify that emails are getting past Comcast - both out and in. These have been getting through to me yet only a few have made it to SpamCop. So I concluded that it had to be a SpamCop issue.

However, I forwarded as attachment three spams tonight, still including an address to me, and not one made it back to me, nor, apparently, to SpamCop. There seems to be great inconsistency with how Comcast is handling spam. Of course, my first question is if spam I am trying to forward as an attachment won't make it through to SpamCop or back to me, how is the spam getting through to me in the first place?!!!

Not sure what direction to take except to copy/paste for spam reporting and keep trying to forward same until situation changes at Comcast. If anyone knows how to get Comcast to resolve this, please let me know. (Or maybe they are in contact with Don or others at SpamCop?)

Thanks to all for help and additional suggestions. This particular peculiarity is a first in all my SpamCop years. I should have known to expect and accept the unexpected.

PS: Miss Betsy - I did the FAQ workout ("Problem Resolutions for Reporters") which I think was pretty much the same as workarounds you suggested and all was/is OK. But thanks for offering a potential solution. And thanks to Steven Underwood who correctly suspected Comcast all along. This kind of hard-to-diagnose Comcast inconsistency was not expected by me.

Will continue to monitor - maybe it will straighten out. Obviously, this means that FTC reporting and, ironically, reports to Comcast spam reporting are not going to reach their destinations either.

[Miss Betsy]

Thank you all for your persistence in trying to report spam. Perhaps your persistence will prod yahoo and comcast and others to realize that there are knowledgable and responsible end users and to adopt better ways to combat spam.

We will have to look at the FAQ and see if there is a way to add that the problem is sometimes inconsistent so that others don't have the same frustration.

Miss Betsy

[funinatl]

Here's an update on my problem and troubleshooting. Based on it I've changed my mind and am convinced it's a Comcast problem. I'm not sure what had happened on that earlier test but here's what I did this time:

1) I started sending all of my spam submissions to SpamCop and a hotmail address. None are making it to either.

2) I had some other people tell me that they hadn't received an email I sent them. I forwarded those emails to a Hotmail account, a Yahoo account and a Comcast account. I did this several times. Every time it made it to the Comcast account but it never made it to the other accounts.

3) Then I took another sent email that had made it to the intended person and forwarded it to the same 3 accounts (Hotmail, Yahoo and Comcast). Again, I did this several times. This email made it to all 3 addresses every time.

4) Concerned that it had something to do with Outlook, I tried the same tests above but sent them from the Comcast web based email service. It had the same results.

Now convinced that it was a Comcast problem, I called them again and insisted that it be escalated. They opened a new ticket, escalated it and told me they'd call me back. That was 2 days ago. Today I called them back and asked for the status of my problem. They said my ticket had been closed and noted that it was a part of a known problem that they had been working on. I insisted they reopen the ticket and have someone call me. I'm waiting for that call. They did mention that they had been having a lot of email problems for the last week or so.

[dbiel]

Yahoo it seems, is having problems sending mail in a timely fashion. I had an issue at work where a salesman sent me an email with an attachment. When I had not received it, he sent the same message via an AOL account which I received in a matter of seconds. Two and one half hours latter, the Yahoo copy finally arrived in my in-box. Both messages were sent from the same internet connection, just using different mail servers.

[detour]

Had conversation yesterday with a very helpful and understanding rep from Comcast's Customer Security Assurance group (formerly Comcast Abuse Team).

He has opened ticket and has escelated to engineers. He acknowledged major changes to email hnadling on or about the date that all of our problems started, Nov 6, 2007.

We talked at length and he definitely understood issue and promised to get back with me when more was known. (It may take a couple of weeks for this to be researched.)

He understands frustration of not being able to forward "as attachment" spam. (Especially spam that was not caught in the first place as it came in to my email but then was consequently trapped and discarded as spam going out. It is not logical.)

Also, Comcast has changed systems/companies (added some/deleted others?) that they use to filter/block spam, so turmoil will be a part of this for awhile until they work out the bugs.

[agamemnus]

I have had the exact same problems for several weeks now. It seems Comcast is simply not sending anything to Spamcop.

I don't think it's just a problem with sending Comcast emails, but also receiving them. My parents' friends in Russia sent us an email and it never appeared. From-work emails (GE) also don't arrive.

Also, I am puzzled as to why it can possibly be forward that is mis-identified as spam by Comcast's servers. If they don't block it coming in, they shouldn't block it coming out, right?

[Farelf]

...Also, I am puzzled as to why it can possibly be forward that is mis-identified as spam by Comcast's servers. If they don't block it coming in, they shouldn't block it coming out, right?

I don't think we know enough about how they implement inwards and outwards blocking to know. And I'm betting not many in Comcast would know either. I don't use Comcast so can only "project" from the little I know about my provider's "similar" infuriating behavior. I'm thinking a blend of:

- some degree of heuristic-learning content filtering (body and header - heavens knows maybe even including sender and/or reply to addresses)

- some resonably dynamic "reputation-based" filtering based on IP addresses within some of, or the whole of, the relay chain.

I'm thinking a number of machines running the filters and I'm thinking "less than perfect" synchonization between them, in terms of the "rules" for this particular session time. So what gets caught by one doesn't necessarily get caught by another or even that which doesn't get caught by one now gets caught by the same one later.

I find it instructive that "their" initial response was to filter inwards by default and to deny that they had outwards filtering at all. I look in vain for detailed information inserted in the headers of messages they do deign to allow inwards and I see no information at all on filtering in the headers of the messages the permit to leave (and of course they do not bother to advise when they decide to stop an outwards mail - implying that "decision" is outside the initial SMTP chain but that is not necessarily the case, they may just be avoiding confrontation. And this is "server-based" so they will not permit whitelisting - in either direction.

I short, in the absence of consultation concerning the remnants of the service they kindly allow me to access, I assume the worst. And they don't care because their competitors do exactly the same. Of course Mail Service Providers have an obligation to avoid sending or relaying spam - even if that obligation is "only" in the terms of their AUP/TOS/CRA (Customer Relations Agreement - be very afraid if your provider has one of those) and in many cases there are also external "regulations" of varying degrees of rigor. That they choose (apparently) to meet this/these obligations at the lowest possible cost to themselves and at the expense of the few hardy survivors they laughingly call "customers" is entirely predictable. Only we few who would care to contribute to spam solutions ever complain and object at all.

Those who do not yet suffer this tyranny should not, IMO, permit themselves to feel smug or superior on account of that. They may know less that they think or (certainly) they pay an undisclosed premium for the privilege. With just the top six networks, out of the one hundred thousand or more that there are, "handling" close on 12 billion spam a day between them (and that number growing daily) how can it be otherwise?

From The Fulminations of Farelf Part I(a) p. 1 Maybe it is just me - I am, for sure, just an elderly male curmudgeon and iinet.net.au are unlikely to assuage that, no matter what happens (though they could make a start by concentrating on the "R" part of their CRA, noting that prostitution in this State is on the verge of becoming - sort of - almost legalized and there is a certain, appealing, elegance to reciprocity).

[TomYoung]

In the last week I've forwarded 10 spam messages to SpamCop. However, I've received only 3 replies from SpamCop for follow-up. As far as I can tell all the messages are being sent OK - they settle into the Sent Mail folder of Windows Mail - and I've received no "bounce" or other error messages. My Internet Provider is comcast.net.

Anybody else experiencing this, or have any thoughts as to what's going on here?

TIA.

Tom Young

[DavidT]

Take a look at the Missing submit messages topic in this forum. I think Comcast might be filtering your outbound messages and not delivering them because they contain spam.

DT

[Wazoo]

Anybody else experiencing this, or have any thoughts as to what's going on here?

As stated previously, there is a FAQ entry here on this particular subject, Comcast is in the list. This 'new' Topic has been merged into an existing Discussion on the same subject about the same ISP.

PM sent to advise of this action.

[funinatl]

I just spoke to Comcast today. They are finally admitting that they have had a national problem since the first week of November. They spent a couple weeks telling everyone that it was someone elses problem. When overwhelmed with reports and considerable proof they've finally admitted it's their problem. The only remaining question is how long it'll take them to fix it.

[Wazoo]

I just spoke to Comcast today. They are finally admitting that they have had a national problem since the first week of November.

Funny .. that's about the same time that they finally admitted that they really were interfering with BitTorrent file transfers, after months of denials.

[Farelf]

Which leaves me asking whether Comcast actually filter and drop or not in the normal course of events.

[loafman]

Which leaves me asking whether Comcast actually filter and drop or not in the normal course of events.

I don't think we can lay this on Comcast. I'm on Verizon FIOS and I only get about 75% of the replies to email submissions. I never wait for the reply to start reporting, so its no harm done, I just report from the web site once they are accepted. Besides, if I wait for the replies, it slows down the reporting. I've had replies that arrived hours after they were already reported.

[Wazoo]

I don't think we can lay this on Comcast. I'm on Verizon FIOS and I only get about 75% of the replies to email submissions. I never wait for the reply to start reporting, so its no harm done, I just report from the web site once they are accepted. Besides, if I wait for the replies, it slows down the reporting. I've had replies that arrived hours after they were already reported.

But the storyline offered by the various Comsact users here and in the FAQ Topic are indicating that the submittals aren't getting to the SpamCop.net parsing system, so there is nothing 'to report' .... quite a different circumstance.

[funinatl]

But the storyline offered by the various Comsact users here and in the FAQ Topic are indicating that the submittals aren't getting to the SpamCop.net parsing system, so there is nothing 'to report' .... quite a different circumstance.

That's correct in my situation. I have cc'ed a hotmail account on my Spamcop submissions. Not a single submission is making it to hotmail so I assume they aren't leaving Comcast at all. But when I send them from hotmail I get the Spamcop response every time. That seems pretty clear to me.

Maybe the other person is having a different problem with Verizon.

[mike20878]

I've noticed the same problem recently. I used to be able forward my spam as attachments to spamcop and now apparently Comcast is indeed blocking them. I cc'd myself to another email earlier and it did not go through. I emailed customer service to complain and I got a reply with instructions on using webmail to send attachments. I guess I could try dragging the offending email to my desktop and then trying to attach it using webmail but what a pain.