Do I qualify to report these abusers?

[leukoplast]

Ok, I have read what is 'allowed' to be reported as spam to SpamCop, but I am still unclear if I can report on my specific problem.

A while back (years ago) I ordered some medication on one of those cheap medication sites (really bad idea.) Not being as internet savvy as I am today, I used my main e-mail as their contact e-mail. Years later I am still struggling to get rid of all the junk they send to me. I have at least 30 sort & delete options, which gets rid of a lot of the spam before I even see it, but these companies are pretty sly. They are always changing the subject headers, and internal e-mail text. So I cant single out a certain word or phrase that pops up all the time, that I can block.

So I still end up getting a lot of junk that is VERY annoying. And on my main e-mail address as well. So my question is, since I technically ordered something with this e-mail, and may have agreed to something, does this qualify as UBE? Because I would really like to report these spammers, as its very destructive and sometimes they even do a mass forward, which includes my name and e-mail visible to at least 7 other recipients. This is not a good thing, as this is info I don't want even more spammers, or anybody else to get ahold of.

And I have checked, there doesn't seem to be any way to unsubscribe to this spam.

[turetzsr]

<snip>

A while back (years ago) I ordered some medication on one of those cheap medication sites (really bad idea.) Not being as internet savvy as I am today, I used my main e-mail as their contact e-mail. Years later I am still struggling to get rid of all the junk they send to me.

<snip>

...If it is the same outfit sending you "spam" as you signed up with, I would think that, by definition, it is not spam, since it isn't unsolicited. If, however, it is another source sending you e-mail, it is spam, because you didn't sign up with them. You may wish to consider abandoning that e-mail address and getting a new one.

I have at least 30 sort & delete options, which gets rid of a lot of the spam before I even see it, but these companies are pretty sly. They are always changing the subject headers, and internal e-mail text. So I cant single out a certain word or phrase that pops up all the time, that I can block.

...Can you filter by the IP address in the internet header? Or by the server name that's a part of the sending e-mail address?

[leukoplast]

...If it is the same outfit sending you "spam" as you signed up with, I would think that, by definition, it is not spam, since it isn't unsolicited. If, however, it is another source sending you e-mail, it is spam, because you didn't sign up with them. You may wish to consider abandoning that e-mail address and getting a new one....Can you filter by the IP address in the internet header? Or by the server name that's a part of the sending e-mail address?

Well, its definitely not using the same name as the original place I bought from, the links they send me are always random. But I know its really from the same company(s).

And as far as I know, I cannot filter by IP. I can filter pretty much everything in the email, who its sent to, words in the email, in the subject etc. But nothing like IP filtering.

Also, changing e-mails is not an option.

[rconner]

If you agreed (or did not decline) to receive mail from, say, XYZ company, and you continue to get mail that is identifiably from XYZ company (according to info in the message itself, not just their website), then, no, it isn't quite cricket to report it as spam. On the other hand, the fact that these guys don't give you a removal option means that they are violating U.S. Federal Law (CAN spam) if this applies to you. If it were me, I'd consider this alone to be fair grounds to report them as spammers.

As an end-user, you yourself may be unable to filter by IP address (and you probably wouldn't want to try, this would be a big job). However, most blocklist based filters like SpamCop (and those used by many retail ISPs) seem to do well at filtering out most of the criminal pharm spam by checking the source IP address.

If you'd care to post a sample of the spam via tracking link, we might be able to come up with some more advice.

-- rick

[turetzsr]

If you agreed (or did not decline) to receive mail from, say, XYZ company, and you continue to get mail that is identifiably from XYZ company (according to info in the message itself, not just their website)

<snip>

...Since message content can be forged to make it look as if it's from anyone (for example, phishing), I would suggest what identifies it as being from XYZ company is the source IP address (per the internet headers) being under XYZ company's control or a service that company XYZ uses to send its e-mail.

[rconner]

...Since message content can be forged to make it look as if it's from anyone (for example, phishing), I would suggest what identifies it as being from XYZ company is the source IP address (per the internet headers) being under XYZ company's control or a service that company XYZ uses to send its e-mail.

Yes, I agree. The typical pharm spam I get comes direct-to-MX from botnets, which I would not call hallmarks of a legal and ethical business. I would have no compunction about reporting such outfits as spammers. It would be a bit more questionable if the messages always came from the same IP block and had an unforged header, plus complete company ID within the message body.

-- rick

[leukoplast]

If you agreed (or did not decline) to receive mail from, say, XYZ company, and you continue to get mail that is identifiably from XYZ company (according to info in the message itself, not just their website), then, no, it isn't quite cricket to report it as spam. On the other hand, the fact that these guys don't give you a removal option means that they are violating U.S. Federal Law (CAN spam) if this applies to you. If it were me, I'd consider this alone to be fair grounds to report them as spammers.

As an end-user, you yourself may be unable to filter by IP address (and you probably wouldn't want to try, this would be a big job). However, most blocklist based filters like SpamCop (and those used by many retail ISPs) seem to do well at filtering out most of the criminal pharm spam by checking the source IP address.

If you'd care to post a sample of the spam via tracking link, we might be able to come up with some more advice.

-- rick

Tracking link? Is that like the full headers of the e-mail?

And based on what you guys are saying, its probably ok for me to report this stuff to Spamcop. As the company sending me the e-mails does not offer a way out, that I know of.

Oh and they have this little 'disclaimer' at the bottom of every e-mail, which may prevent my e-mail provider from getting involved (when I report junk to them) So does this cause an issue?

If you are not the specified party you must not publish or copy this email. This e-mail

has been created from

data kept in our system. The data supplied in this email is not

public information and may not be distributed or copied. The data in this mail is

covered by State and Federal Law.

This mail has been transmitted by our shopping cart information system. The

dissemination of this message requires the inter-net consequently

the message may have been delayed or modified. The data distributed in this email

message is meant only for the person to whom

it was sent. We are unable guarantee that the information in this electronic message is

correct. We are unable guarantee this email has no

errors. This e-mail contains confidential data and is intended only for

the named party. The publication of the information in this email is restricted by

H.I.P.P.A. This mail may include

confidential data. Kindly inform the company at once if you have received this message

by error. Any examination

or dissemination or other use of this information by a person other than the meant party

is prohibited.

The sender does not take responsibility for any errors or omissions in

the content of this mail.

[turetzsr]

Tracking link?

<snip>

...See SpamCop Wikipedia article "Tracking URL."

And based on what you guys are saying, its probably ok for me to report this stuff to Spamcop. As the company sending me the e-mails does not offer a way out, that I know of.

<snip>

...No, I would not say that at all. I would say that if you are quite sure the e-mail is coming from the same folks from whom you signed up to receive it, you may not report it via SpamCop because it is not unsolicited. It may be allowable to report it through other venues, though if, indeed, it violates the US CAN-spam Act.

[leukoplast]

...See SpamCop Wikipedia article "Tracking URL."...No, I would not say that at all. I would say that if you are quite sure the e-mail is coming from the same folks from whom you signed up to receive it, you may not report it via SpamCop because it is not unsolicited. It may be allowable to report it through other venues, though if, indeed, it violates the US CAN-spam Act.

After reading that, I am still unaware of what a tracking URL is, or how I am supposed to obtain it.

And thats just great....seems as if this company can just spam me all they want, and there isn't a thing I can do about it. What happens if I do report it to SpamCop? Nothing?

[turetzsr]

After reading that, I am still unaware of what a tracking URL is, or how I am supposed to obtain it.

...Not obvious, I guess: the critical part is "When looking at the Report Page of the Parser Results, ...." That is, it appears after you submit spam to the SpamCop parser.

And thats just great....seems as if this company can just spam me all they want, and there isn't a thing I can do about it.

... But, but ... by your own admission, it isn't spam, at least not by SpamCop's definition. Besides, there may be any number of things you can do about it; you just can't report it via SpamCop!

What happens if I do report it to SpamCop? Nothing?

...See SpamCop Forum (link near upper left of each SpamCop Forum page) entry labeled "What if I break the rule(s)?"

[leukoplast]

...Not obvious, I guess: the critical part is "When looking at the Report Page of the Parser Results, ...." That is, it appears after you submit spam to the SpamCop parser.... But, but ... by your own admission, it isn't spam, at least not by SpamCop's definition. Besides, there may be any number of things you can do about it; you just can't report it via SpamCop!...See SpamCop Forum (link near upper left of each SpamCop Forum page) entry labeled "What if I break the rule(s)?"

Oh, so I have to make the report first. Well, since I am obviously not qualified to use SpamCop, asking for a tracking URL is pretty irresponsible.

And I read the 'what if I break the rules' thing, and it doesn't seem all that harsh. Plus if I never made this thread, how would they even know if it wasn't 'true' UBE spam?

[rconner]

Oh, so I have to make the report first. Well, since I am obviously not qualified to use SpamCop, asking for a tracking URL is pretty irresponsible.

And I read the 'what if I break the rules' thing, and it doesn't seem all that harsh. Plus if I never made this thread, how would they even know if it wasn't 'true' UBE spam?

Actually you can get a tracking link without completing a report. Paste your spam into the reporting form (with headers and body), copy the tracking URL from the top of the resulting page, then CANCEL the reports. They will not be sent, but the tracking link will still work.

I may say that disclaimer you quoted above is a lot more than I usually get from the pharm spammers who send their stuff to me; they don't bother about disclaimers or HIPPA or suchlike. This leads me to wonder whether you are dealing with an outfit that, while perhaps a bit morally stunted, is not necessarily spamming. Did you try to "notify" the company that you received the message "...in error"?

Anyway, a tracking link will be of some help here if you wish to post one. Otherwise, there's sufficient doubt that I would probably not use SpamCop. You can, however, report it on your own outside of SpamCop

-- rick

[leukoplast]

Actually you can get a tracking link without completing a report. Paste your spam into the reporting form (with headers and body), copy the tracking URL from the top of the resulting page, then CANCEL the reports. They will not be sent, but the tracking link will still work.

I may say that disclaimer you quoted above is a lot more than I usually get from the pharm spammers who send their stuff to me; they don't bother about disclaimers or HIPPA or suchlike. This leads me to wonder whether you are dealing with an outfit that, while perhaps a bit morally stunted, is not necessarily spamming. Did you try to "notify" the company that you received the message "...in error"?

Anyway, a tracking link will be of some help here if you wish to post one. Otherwise, there's sufficient doubt that I would probably not use SpamCop. You can, however, report it on your own outside of SpamCop

-- rick

Well, when I goto the link they provide and get to the website, there is ways to 'contact' them (through some kind of IM service), but the company is going to do everything it can to make it as difficult as possible for me to get off their lists.

Also, after looking over some of the 'spam' I get from these companies, I realize that there is two kinds of spam e-mails. One is the one with the disclaimer, the second is one that really has no ties to any company I ever ordered from. They send stuff like "Medicine coupons" and give me some blog website link, or google search URL linking to some random medicine website.

So I think one may be a non-UBE type of spam (the one I 'agreed' to receive e-mails from), and the other is true spam, with no ties to companies I have purchased from, other than knowing my name. These are also the ones that forward the same message to 5-7 other people beside me. The other spam med one, is a tad more personal.

[turetzsr]

<snip>

And I read the 'what if I break the rules' thing, and it doesn't seem all that harsh.

...Permanent banishment from SpamCop not harsh? Well, then, no problem!

Plus if I never made this thread, how would they even know if it wasn't 'true' UBE spam?

...The normal route would be to provide evidence to SpamCop that you subscribed. See the SpamCop Forum article labeled "I have been falsely and/or maliciously accused of spamming, what can I do?"

<snip>

Also, after looking over some of the 'spam' I get from these companies, I realize that there is two kinds of spam e-mails. One is the one with the disclaimer, the second is one that really has no ties to any company I ever ordered from. They send stuff like "Medicine coupons" and give me some blog website link, or google search URL linking to some random medicine website.

So I think one may be a non-UBE type of spam (the one I 'agreed' to receive e-mails from), and the other is true spam, with no ties to companies I have purchased from, other than knowing my name. These are also the ones that forward the same message to 5-7 other people beside me.

<snip>

...Indeed, that second type does sound like spam!

[Miss Betsy]

They are supposed to give you a way to unsubscribe within the email, I believe, according to CANSPAM and aren't they also supposed to put ADV in the subject? I would look up CANSPAM and find out. And then I would report it to the FTC and any other place that you find to report it.

In the headers, it provides the IP address that the spam comes from. If it always comes from the same place, it probably is a mailing list that you agreed to get. If it doesn't, then I would say that your email address has been sold to a third party - no matter what the content is. And it is reportable.

If you didn't receive an email that said in essence 'you have signed up for our mailing list. If you really did, please return this email.' then you didn't sign up properly.

Mailwasher, a filtering program, may allow you to filter by IP address. It does allow you to filter by different blocklists. (However, DO NOT USE their 'bounce' function - you will be come a spammer yourself if you do)

It is not that difficult to change email addresses. If you are afraid of losing email, you can get another one to use for those email correspondents that you want to get email from and know are not going to spam you and still keep the spammy one. Eventually everyone remembers to change it in their address book so all you have to do is delete the spam in the spammy account every once in a while. Or you could open a yahoo or hotmail account and forward your main account to that account - yahoo and hotmail have very aggressive spam filters. Again, you only check your main account periodically to delete the spam and catch any good email that was caught. You can also use your main account for ordering things on the internet or whenever you are not sure about giving someone your email.

Miss Betsy