Jazzwineman
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Posts posted by Jazzwineman
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9 hours ago, petzl said:
For websites a different problem
Cloudfare are "presently" selling "cheap" cloud storing space
A lot of naive clients are not using secure passwords
Cloudfare need to insist and check password compliance state the maximum characters their password can handle, with a minimum of 9 characters ideally need to have at least one .Lowercase, uppercase,a numeral and a special symbol like, ( ) - = @ $ ^ & ? etc,
Perhaps generate a unique one randomly between 20 and 32 characters for every customer
Then insist that a malware/virus scanner is being run (like Windows defender)They are not doing this
Cloudfare needs to be criminally prosecuted and further sued into oblivion. Ihave zero interest in helping the business of someone that has conspired with enemies of the United States, as well as allow commission of other crimes against the USA. That is is like a landlord that rents to a group of people and then is informed by law enforcement that these tenants are running a meth lab and the landlord takes a hands off approach and refuses to respond or make any effort to throw the tenants out.
TBB
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They should be shut down for their criminal negligence and, dare I say it, willful misconduct.
Tom
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1 hour ago, showker said:
Hello Heather . . .
NO. Dead. I could not get an attorney interested without a 100-grand commitment up front.
- it will be extremely expensive, even though there is a clear violation of law
- it cannot be litigated in civil court
- Most attorneys I've talked to do not have the tech savvy to build the case to win
- There are now several dozen other "proxy" providers doing the same thing
- Since the advent of security awareness, the courts are not friendly to "finding" the source of email
I have reported literally hundreds of spams directly via CloudFlare's own reporting form.
For a long time they would reply a few days later with the owner of the spamvertised property, however recently they have started responding that "No action taken because we cannot find that any wrongdoing has been committed". . . . when I can prove they sent Russian "Girls" to minors. Of course, you know that the distribution of pornography is a class 1 Felony.
By the time the case arrives in court, the "live" evidence is gone, and screen captures, addresses, headers, etc are not convincing evidence.
It is a travesty, and so far as I can tell, one that cannot be combated. IF you look at CloudFlare's P&L statement you see they're quickly becoming one of the BIG dot.coms and have multi-millions to crush anyone who stands up against them.
I've written articles, sent article tips to big time writers and news editors to no avail.
Bottom line : nobody cares.
🙂
Sorry folks.
Fred
There is no question in my mind they they are now and had been hiding the Russian attack on this country in 2016 and every day since then. This should be a matter of criminal prosecution. Their sillya.. President cannot even answer questions that are of serious legal matters claiming that covering for sites that sell pirated copyrighted material is somehow violating free speech. A ridiculous argument and then he says it is not his job to make it easier for law enforcement. I assure you that have made plenty of money from the Russians and their phony dating sites and GRU activities against this country. They also allowed the use of their services by Neo-Nazis in Britain. I have contacted the Washington Post, NY Tomes, LA Times, the Associated Press and the BBC. No response so far.
This is as bad as all the phony, spoofed number frauds from India. It is beyond pale that we allow innocent people to victimized by these frauds. It really now should be part of the political discussion, but the medai and people get hung up on so many trivial and banal issues.
Tom In Dallas
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Point is that you want to say it is fine for Cloudflare to allow the usage of their networks by sites that are actively engaged in fraud and identity theft and terrorism and piracy of property. I find none of that associated with the rights of free speech only illegal activity.
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18 hours ago, Lking said:
We disagree about the definition of “Censorship” I use the definition as stated by English Oxford Living Dictionaries
The internet would be part of “etc."
Using that definition of “censorship” and the definition of spam, “unsolicited commercial email” which I expanded on above; SpamCop’s block list (SCBL) is concerned with spam, not content. By that I mean the SCBL identifies, and restricts recite, of email from the sender of email that recipients have identify as meeting the SpamCop definition of spam. To focus on the content of the email only, I think would be censorship.
<opinion> I do not want, my Government, my ISP, your Government, SpamCop, or anyone else or organization deciding, outside of a court, what can be available on the internet. </opinion>
Content that laws forbid or restrict should NOT be allowed. That is different. Laws in a free society are written by duly elected representatives and enforced by proper authorities and courts. SpamCop nor other block list, qualify nor have the power to control what is on the internet. Nor do many others that would restrict internet or email content. Most people have opinions about how the internet should and shouldn’t be used. But that is what they are; Opinions. They do not have the authority of law.
It should be kept in mind that the SPBL helps, those that choose to use it, identify email they do not want to receive in their inbox. SCBL does not prevent the email from being sent.
Yes, as a courtesy to the administrators of the ISP hosting the source a spam report may be sent. It is hoped that the administrator will make a business decision that it will be better for them and their other clients to “cleans” their client list (or help a client remove a virus, etc.).
We may all agree that some internet content does not reflect well on the 4 million years of human evolution. We may not all agree on what to do about it.
Here is the flaw in your argument, although I can clearly make the assumption that you are a talk radio and fox news listener. It is not unlike a business that has all the legal rights, but continue with allowing criminal activity to take place on their property is not going to be protected from action against them. Cloudflare is in the same position. Can you defend Cloudflare allowing a known terrorist group to hide behind their services in the name of freedom of expression??? Do you feel that "content" that s hiding the sender to send clear (beyond the fraud) porn to children fits under you definition of censorship. Clearly if you were to do the same, I know quite well what would happen to you and Cloudflare should be held to the same standard. Do you think, that fronting for the Russians as they attacked this country in 2016 is an appropriate activity???? Perhaps you can check the federal Statues on CONSPIRACY.
"Content that laws forbid or restrict should NOT be allowed. ", but as you further state BL are concerned with the sender and not content although the content is hidden my Cloudflare. To be honest, your argument is similar to that of James St Clair in his arguments for Nixon in Nixon vs. the US. In your case you use the ".ect" as an excuse to proliferate illegal or fraudulent activities that are clearly unwanted. In the US we have clear legal definitions of censorship, some of which I strongly disagree with (especially those that deal with community standards where local bigots make decisions)
So are you really saying that Cloudflare should be allowed to front for and hide those, that are not even from the USA and one of their known adversaries, protection under the First Amendment if they were teaching the techniques of sabotage, the assassination of the President, the filching of documents from public files, the planting of bombs, the art of street warfare, and the like???
Further as an interesting side note- do you believe that privacy is a right under the Constitution???
My own belief would come fro this in WOD dissent in Dennis v. United States: "
Free speech has occupied an exalted position because of the high service it has given our society. Its protection is essential to the very existence of a democracy. The airing of ideas releases pressures which otherwise might become destructive. When ideas compete in the market for acceptance, full and free discussion exposes the false and they gain few adherents. Full and free discussion even of ideas we hate encourages the testing of our own prejudices and preconceptions. Full and free discussion keeps a society from becoming stagnant and unprepared for the stresses and strains that work to tear all civilizations apart.
Full and free discussion has indeed been the first article of our faith. We have founded our political system on it. It has been the safeguard of every religious, political, philosophical, economic, and racial group amongst us. We have counted on it to keep us from embracing what is cheap and false; we have trusted the common sense of our [341 U.S. 494, 585] people to choose the doctrine true to our genius and to reject the rest. This has been the one single outstanding tenet that has made our institutions the symbol of freedom and equality. We have deemed it more costly to liberty to suppress a despised minority than to let them vent their spleen. We have above all else feared the political censor. We have wanted a land where our people can be exposed to all the diverse creeds and cultures of the world."
Your comments appreciated.
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On 12/15/2017 at 1:36 PM, Lking said:
Within this SpamCop forum covering the fight against spam, the Lounge is the correct place for this discussion. While opinions are welcome and have been expressed in the passed, "we" must also moderate our "free speech" on this forum to avoid admonition on political, religious or slanderous statements.
Keep in mind that I, LKing, am only a volunteer on this forum trying to keep this forum useful to those having issues with receiving spam and/or fighting spam. Opinions I express are mine and may not reflect the position of the owners or supporter of this forum.
Not being able to draw conclusions about blocklisters in general because each BL has their own rules for which IP to block and for how long, a blanket blocking of Cloudflare would, it seems to me, to be as irrational as blocking gmail/yahoo/outlook because of the large amount of spam sent from mailboxes in these domains.
A vary tight definition of spam is 'unsolicited commercial email from a company which you do not/have not had a relationship.' Many people/organizations, SpamCop included, have expanded that definition, but no generally accepted definition included specific content. If you start including email as spam only because you disapprove of the content, that does become censorship.
There are on the books in most countries laws against terrorist activity, copyright infringements, etc. Whether those laws are enforced or not, is a separate question.
Censorship is not defined as not permitting a lewd ad going to children that is a fraud, full of malware if you go to the site and that they seek to lure you into signing up for no purpose other than identity theft.???????? If people want to join a meet and f... site that is their adult business, but being a follower of William Douglas and I doubt you know who that is, I am a purist on the first amendment. However that doe snot mean that censorship is defined in any way to not allow criminal behavior as they clearly have in many cases that have zero to do with free speech.
Are you suggesting that the US and the States do away with their deceptive trade practices laws and let people be taken advantage of my unscrupulous or fraudulent people in the name of Free Speech?
Cloudflare hosts pirate web sites like solar movies, movie 4k ect and these are not free speech sites , but sites making money giving away other people's property that affect Indy producers and blockbusters as well to infect visitors with malware. i do not think a slippery slope exists when private enterprise -different legally than governments- says you do not meet the qualifications of using my private services. No different than a company has a right to run a background check and say you based on your past and perhaps present are not worth to be with out company.
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On 12/15/2017 at 6:25 PM, petzl said:
Yes I'm in Australia much opinion is based/formed (groomed) on media feeding one nips of red cordial to have one grow pointy heads!
I find Cloudfare do react on many of the abuse reports I have sent them (not all)
Try their abuse form to prioritize your complaint
https://www.cloudflare.com/abuse/I have spoken all the way up to the number 3 in command of Cloudlfare. They respond with utter nonsense- to wit: "
Please be aware Cloudflare offers network service solutions, including a reverse proxy, pass-through security service and a content distribution network (CDN).
Because Cloudflare is a reverse proxy, our IP addresses appear in whois and DNS records for websites using our services. Cloudflare is not a hosting provider, and we do not have access to our customer's content."
You can go look at the TOS ( https://www.cloudflare.com/terms/ ) specifically sections 5, 7 and 11 and that is in complete contradiction of what their abuse dept. writes. Again you are WRONG about their attitude and I ask you to go listen to the YouTube video listed above and start at the 1:10:00 and listen for the first 2 questions and you tell me. They are making money as they did from 2016 to let the Russians run amok with their fraud and pron and identity theft sites.
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When are the blacklisters going to block Cloudflare as hosters of spam, terrorist activity, copyright infringements and on and on.
I have little doubt in my mind that all of the Russian phony, identity thieving porn dating site nonsense that yahoo and others do not block is being paid for by Putin to Cloudflare. No question they sponsored Russian emails and sites that attacked our country during the 2016 elections.
Prince- their President -can give his nonsensical answers and I can point you to some quite quickly, but he has a law degree and knows better. Bottom line is that for all the good Cloudflare does, they are EQUALLY as bad and allowing millions of pieces of fraud to flow to around the web. Some of the dating emails are loaded with porn photos and go to many children as well. go to the 1:10:00 segment of this discussion and see if you think he is nothing more than a liar and ask yourself, what is he hiding and are his excuses good enough to justify the amount of spam they allow. I would bet that Spamcops has sent more then 100-250k complaints to their abuse dept with no action.
Tom in Dallas
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5 hours ago, klappa said:
Cloudflare gets paid big sums of money from the spammers for their illegal activity and as long as they don't get any law enforcement on them they will let spammer continue do his things. You can write to
well now, we finally get to the truth and my point is made. They are in a conspiracy and in fact a paid conspiracy in which they profit from. That provides both more from a civil and criminal liability. One or an entity cannot act as an agent for illegal activity and not be caught in the same net.
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16 hours ago, InvisiBill said:
I think there was a misunderstanding here. A lot of my comments were general information for anyone who happens to read this thread, nothing against you personally.
I am completely agreeing with you that if Cloudflare is proxying material that they have been properly informed violates some law, they need to stop or face the consequences. However, Cloudflare doesn't have access to the original source of the material. I've seen this mentioned in the statements they've made when people have accused them of things before (implying there are a decent number of people who don't understand this), and it's completely true. Just like Google can remove the search results but has no access to the actual website, Cloudflare can remove the proxying functions spreading that website out, but they have no ability to do anything with the original server (since it's someone else's property). I'm not suggesting transactional immunity, I'm just pointing out that Cloudflare can only change things in their own systems, not in their customers' completely independent systems. And just to explicitly state it, the original copy still being there is not a valid excuse for Cloudflare to not terminate their proxying service either.
I also wasn't trying to say that you shouldn't attempt a legal fight over this. I was simply pointing out that there are a lot of things that make these cases very difficult to win. The CAN-spam Act was passed 13 years ago. In the first 5 years spam was explicitly illegal, it actually increased 10-fold. I wish more spam and online fraud would get prosecuted, but we seem to have gotten the short end of the stick here. Unfortunately, it's much easier to steal resources and abuse others online than it is to track those people down and make them face the consequences. At least in this case, it's an established business and not some random spammer hiding in a shady country somewhere, so it's a much more solid target. I genuinely wish you luck in this battle, and hope you succeed in stopping blatantly criminal actions. I don't personally have the resources for legal fights, so I just stick to helping people on the technical side of things.
Point is and apparently we agree to this- that Coudfare's excuse for not doing anything about spammers that Cloudfare knowingly allows them to use their system is a phony excuse. While they may not have access to the clients website, they do reserve that right and once made aware that a client is using Cloudfare as a cover for illegal activity, Cloudfare can well cancel them out and they simply refuse to do anything. Under the broad definitions used by the Justice Dept. they can quickly get thrown in the conspiracy basket and they should be. Once an example is set, then you will find industry compliance.
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From Cloudfare's own TOS published policy:
SECTION 11: INVESTIGATION
CloudFlare reserves the right to investigate you, your business, and/or your owners, officers, directors, managers, and other principals, your sites, and the materials comprising the sites at any time. These investigations will be conducted solely for CloudFlare’s benefit, and not for your benefit or that of any third party. If the investigation reveals any information, act, or omission, which in CloudFlare’s sole opinion, constitutes a violation of any local, state, federal, or foreign law or regulation, this Agreement, or is otherwise deemed harm the Service, CloudFlare may immediately shut down your access to the Service. You agree to waive any cause of action or claim you may have against CloudFlare for such action, including but not limited to any disruption to your website. You acknowledge that CloudFlare may, at its own discretion, reveal the information about your web server to alleged copyright holders or other complaintants who have filed complaints with us.
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2 hours ago, InvisiBill said:
Cloudflare is 100% correct that they don't have any access to the customer's content. They're simply a middleman handing things back and forth. You have just as much access to the original content as they do.
However, as a middleman proxying things back and forth, Cloudflare is completely in control of handing that content back and forth through their own systems. That's their entire point of existing.
They absolutely cannot be expected to remove the original content, as it's entirely someone else's system. They absolutely should be expected to stop proxying content when notified that it's illegal. Google can't take down the actual sites listed in their search results (because it's someone else's system), but they are expected to remove links from their own system which point to those systems. I see no reason why Cloudflare should be treated any differently.
Caveats:
- You telling them that you don't like something doesn't make it illegal and/or necessary for them to remove it.
- Laws are complex. Even if there is some allegedly illegal content, there are procedures to be followed in dealing with it.
- Laws frequently lag behind technology. Even if something is illegal offline (and should be elsewhere according to common sense), it may not be illegal online due to technicalities in laws.
The anonymity of the internet, its international nature, and the technological cluelessness of our lawmakers all contribute to making legal fights against these sorts of things very difficult. I'm not in any way qualified to give you legal advice, but I wish you luck in fighting against those who enable spam and other fraud.
You are completely wrong on a legal standpoint and it is worth the time and effort of lawsuit and referral to the FBI which I have already done through a friend who works with Interpol.
You are suggesting transactional immunity. They have been made aware of and in a clear way by law enforcement (of which you do not need to see published) If you want to make an excuse for what would constitute a conspiracy to commit fraud and distribute obscene material to minors- I would welcome you make that argument in court.
Further you attempt to talk down to me fails on a number of issues, most of which is that i am have been a computer engineer for more than 25 years and am certified in everything, minus Adobe and Autodesk. and manage some 14,000 computers as I write this.
Instead of finding an excuse that is overloading our systems with junk and fraudulent emails only designed to steal from innocent victims, it might be more appreciated if you attempted to find a solution. Cloudflare is creating a problem, they could choose to control. Apparently their lack of ethics and profit motivation do not give them an incentive to do so. Thta leaves us with other resources that mean that public, civil and criminal pressure can be applied to force them to do what is right.Sorry, in the law, being a middleman does give you freedom from liability. You remind me of Condi Rice saying she had nothing to do with the torture issue- she only delivered orders. I would suggest you read transcriptions of the Nuremberg tails and international law to see how well your argument fits.
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2 hours ago, Lking said:
As implored time and time again throughout this forum, what is needed, and klappa requested, is a Tracking URL.
At the top of your screen, after you have pressed the "Process spam" button you will see:
SpamCop v 4.8.5 © 2016 Cisco Systems, Inc. All rights reserved. Here is your TRACKING URL - it may be saved for future reference: https://www.spamcop.net/sc?id=z6316845800z8e04731e5cc30573fc71c1c5db2e64ebzAs with the example above, everyone can see the spam, how the parser processed the spam, and the results.
The Report id number you provided above lead to a screen only you can see. For example, 6552436687 a report associated with the Tracking URL above.
I don't mean to sound harsh. I just get tired of explaining what is described many times.
here is an example of what lking is referring to:
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2 hours ago, kluless said:
I posted several earlier today, these are some of them:
6552396455 ( xxxxx) To: abuse@cloudflare.com
6552396454 ( xxxx) To: abuse@cloudflare.com
6552395282 ( xxxxx ) To: abuse@cloudflare.com
6552395281 ( xxxx ) To: abuse@cloudflare.com
6552395048 ( xxxx) To: abuse@cloudflare.com
6552395047 ( xxx) To: abuse@cloudflare.com
Coudfare is a reverse proxy and will use this excuse to avoid responsibility. Spamcops has sent thousands of reports to them and they know exactly which web sites or dns mailers are using them as a shield and do nothing. You need t let Cloudfare know it is lawsuit time. When ISP or reverse proxies or any of the other "hiders" on the Internet are informed and do nothing- they take on a legal and financial liability. If it started costing them jail time or money- what do you want t be they would take action??
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23 minutes ago, Lking said:
As implored time and time again throughout this forum, what is needed, and klappa requested, is a Tracking URL.
At the top of your screen, after you have pressed the "Process spam" button you will see:
SpamCop v 4.8.5 © 2016 Cisco Systems, Inc. All rights reserved. Here is your TRACKING URL - it may be saved for future reference: https://www.spamcop.net/sc?id=z6316845800z8e04731e5cc30573fc71c1c5db2e64ebzAs with the example above, everyone can see the spam, how the parser processed the spam, and the results.
The Report id number you provided above lead to a screen only you can see. For example, 6552436687 a report associated with the Tracking URL above.
I don't mean to sound harsh. I just get tired of explaining what is described many times.
Well, I do not think talking down to a user with a real concern will accomplish anything.
I have every intent on filing a lawsuit against Cloudfare. They can use their reverse proxy excuse all day long and after they have been informed of the illegal content and still do nothing, I believe that a reasonable conspiracy case can be made against them. They indicate they have no access to their customer's web content, but they can after having been informed of such. I would hope that spam cops would be more understanding of less informed people that the Chinese through (qq.com) are attempted to defraud and steal the identities of people and send clear obscene material through the web-( probably to minors as well) Cloudfare is acting as their wall of protection, but Cloudflare could stop this if so motivated.
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I am at wit's end dealing with the idiots at Cloudflare. I have directly contacted and spoke with their abuse department for what little they are worth They give every excuse in the book as a reverse proxy, but what they do not apparently understand, is that when they have been made aware of clear criminal, civil and other legal violations that they are allowing to hide behind their services then they take on legal responsibility. To say they do not have access to their customers "content" when spamcops has from me personally sent more than 250 abuses on this nonsensical and phony identity thieves who use their naked women, obscene materiel and language to send you to a dating site (not real) and the originating ip is already blacklisted and has no real dns or domain and yet they take a complete hands offs approach.
Well, I will be going into Federal Court this week and file a lawsuit and have an appointment with the FBI to discuss their involvement in hiding criminal activity. This is no different than a landlord of a building or a house, being informed that his tenant is running a crack house or a meth lab and then doing nothing- he can now be included in a conspiracy charge and lose his property. What do you want to bet that if criminal or civil penalties were handed out to Cloudflare or ISP's that allow this nonsense they would find a way to stop it all of a sudden?????????????????????????????
Allowing obscene language and photos to be sent willy -nilly all over the place and even to minors would stand up in Court for about 3 minutes. Any jury would convict them within a very short time..
I would be interested in other opinions and if you want to join the suit, please PM me.
Tom in Dallas
CloudFare Problems
in SpamCop Lounge
Posted
You are more than welcome to play a PR hack for Cloudfare. Does Putin give you an expense account as well?