btech Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I can't help but notice the same webhosts for nearly all my spam reports: certcc.or.kr hanafos.com hanaro.com And for ISPs: hgcbroadband.com chinanet.cn So why don't some of the "authorities" here in the states simply SUE these companies for damages caused by spamming? All the spamcop reports show that the spam is violating the CAN-spam act by masking or spoofing the email address, so why aren't people going after the HOSTS and demanding recompence? One would think that a little pressure on these loose organizations would cause them to start tracking down and eliminating spam. Am I just dreaming here? .b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turetzsr Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 ...How would the US authorities sue Korean and Chinese ISPs? If the US authorities won a judgment against these ISPs, how would they collect and/ or enforce it? ...Yes, I think you're just dreaming. But it is a nice dream! <g> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btech Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 ...How would the US authorities sue Korean and Chinese ISPs? If the US authorities won a judgment against these ISPs, how would they collect and/ or enforce it? ...Yes, I think you're just dreaming. But it is a nice dream! <g> 13809[/snapback] Good point. But wouldn't the negative publicity hassle be anough for change? OK, let's say the US decides to get tough and take them to the WORLD COURT. Now I don't know if such a matter can even be brought there, but if the US could... I don't think it's the money so much as the demand for change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Good point. But wouldn't the negative publicity hassle be anough for change? OK, let's say the US decides to get tough and take them to the WORLD COURT. Now I don't know if such a matter can even be brought there, but if the US could... I don't think it's the money so much as the demand for change. 13810[/snapback] How about giving them a taste of their own medicine (and I don't mean Viagra)? Why not just delay the IP traffic going to/from these sites by an amount proportional to the level of spam emanating from them? Legitimate users would still (eventually) get their e-mail etc., but would presumably then complain to the ISps involved - or take their business elsewhere...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenLady Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Sorry to pour cold water, but what World Court? Nice if it existed though! What does work is consumer boycotts (think South Africa). It may take time, but if every fed up internet user stopped buying products originating in China (and wrote the supplier telling them why) then you would soon see the Chinese businesses complaining to their government. It would also help support local economies too! For more information on boycotts see ethicalconsumer.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turetzsr Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 How about giving them a taste of their own medicine (and I don't mean Viagra)? Why not just delay the IP traffic going to/from these sites by an amount proportional to the level of spam emanating from them? Legitimate users would still (eventually) get their e-mail etc., but would presumably then complain to the ISps involved - or take their business elsewhere...... 13811[/snapback] ...That would have to be done by pretty much every server outside China/Hong Kong and Korea, since any one server that is not doing this can route the traffic that is being delayed by others (yes, I know, I've oversimplified greatly, but you get the idea ). <g> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turetzsr Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Sorry to pour cold water, but what World Court? Nice if it existed though! ...Cour internationale de Justice - International Court of Justice. What does work is consumer boycotts (think South Africa). It may take time, but if every fed up internet user stopped buying products originating in China (and wrote the supplier telling them why) then you would soon see the Chinese businesses complaining to their government. It would also help support local economies too! For more information on boycotts see ethicalconsumer.org 13812[/snapback] ...Personally, I refuse to boycott innocent, responsible parties such as Chinese businesses because other businesses in the same countries are less than effective in keeping spam from flowing through their servers. I have trouble with the "ethics" of such a step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btech Posted July 24, 2004 Author Share Posted July 24, 2004 ...Cour internationale de Justice - International Court of Justice. ...Personally, I refuse to boycott innocent, responsible parties such as Chinese businesses because other businesses in the same countries are less than effective in keeping spam from flowing through their servers. I have trouble with the "ethics" of such a step. 13814[/snapback] IMO, boycotting is something for the tree-huggers in Oregon and Greenpeace; for problems like this, sanctions and actions need to be taken. When Worldcom's business practices were brought in the open and people found that money had been stolen, the government went into action to file charges. So how is it different that these hosts are facilitating the theft and usage of bandwidth and time? Will it take actual dollars to be stolen before action will be taken? I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turetzsr Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 IMO, boycotting is something for the tree-huggers in Oregon and Greenpeace; for problems like this, sanctions and actions need to be taken. When Worldcom's business practices were brought in the open and people found that money had been stolen, the government went into action to file charges. So how is it different that these hosts are facilitating the theft and usage of bandwidth and time? Will it take actual dollars to be stolen before action will be taken? I hope not.13817[/snapback] ...As a U.S. public corporation, WorldCom (now MCI [again]) is subject to U.S. laws. Foreign ISPs generally are not. Anyway, it's not only the ISPs that are the thieves: the spammers (most of whom probably are Yanks) are the real source of the problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy95 Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Hello world! Wow, How can You think like this? I really think that we have to see the world in other colors than black and white. - Well who am I to say this? Europeen married to a Chinese! Short and simple. Please don't blame me if You think I am rude. I am not. I am known to be quite humble. However - when You talk about boicotting - You can not blame 2-3 billion asian citizens because of the act that just a few (10-100) people are doing. Most of the citizens (99,9%) are lawful and 100% trustworthy people, who does not even dare to think about to do something that the government could accuse them for. If You think otherwise you are completly wrong and have never been outside of your own country. According to the "news" here today (in Europe) they have closed down a spammer companion who was responsible for selling american email adresses to spammers. This person was an AOL employee.. Well.. I say no more... Also - please remember why these people spam.. Because A LOT OF US want them to do it... Remember - If we stopped to respond to this spam it would automaticly end. Wow again - maybe I just put fire on myselves or maybe there are someone out there that do agree in some of what i did scrabbled down... Again: I really am humble... No harm to anyone.. just a second opinion... And belive me.. I hate spam much much more than the average internet surfer..!!!!!! Sammy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 You can not blame 2-3 billion asian citizens because of the act that just a few (10-100) people are doing. Most of the citizens (99,9%) are lawful and 100% trustworthy people, This subject has been debated many times in the spamcop newsgroup with the majority agreeing with you - that most asian citizens are lawful and would be horrified with what a few are doing. Just the way that most US citizens are horrified at what a few hundred spammers are doing. And regard those who buy spammer products (another few hundred or is it thousand?) as idiots. In addition, there have been Chinese tech workers who have posted to the spamcop newsgroup who do understand and are working hard to get management to understand (something tech workers anywhere can identify with). In that case, a refusal to buy Chinese goods that are spamvertized might work. I regularly get unsolicited email from a Chinese company selling something that might be useful to some in my field, but not us. I have tried several times to unsubscribe in all ways except the unsubscribe; have reported it manually several times with an explanation, etc. I hope no one buys from abaco machines - even if their prices look good or their product is well made. OTOH, blocking those servers in China or Korea is no different than blocking any other server that sends spam. There is, at least, one honest, spam hating ISP in China who responded appropriately to a spam report (and I never got another one from that IP address). So there are alternatives in China for those email users who do not want their email blocked. There are web email services that those Chinese who have to use the ISPs who don't care (or are greedy). Miss Betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turetzsr Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Hi, Sammy! <snip> Wow, How can You think like this? I really think that we have to see the world in other colors than black and white. <snip> However - when You talk about boicotting - You can not blame 2-3 billion asian citizens because of the act that just a few (10-100) people are doing. ...First, a small suggestion -- it might have been appropriate for you to have specifically mentioned that (IIUC) you were objecting to one of the replies in this thread -- most of us seem to agree with you! <g> ...Second: the reply to which you object did not, IMHO, seek to attach blame to all Asian people: <snip> What does work is consumer boycotts (think South Africa). It may take time, but if every fed up internet user stopped buying products originating in China (and wrote the supplier telling them why) then you would soon see the Chinese businesses complaining to their government [emphasis by Steve T]. 13812[/snapback] Rather, the suggestion was to give the good people of the Asian countries from which a lot of the spam seems to be routed the incentive to help us victims put leverage on the ISPs that need to act to stop it. Please don't blame me if You think I am rude. I am not. <snip> ...Hmm -- I see nothing in your post I would interpret as being rude. Thanks for participating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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